Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I just watched Tenet and I was reading through Liger and dudacek’s discussion like one of them was going one way in time and the other was going the other way in time but I don’t know which way in time either poster was going. That’s basically the plot of the movie, if you’re wondering.

I hope I'm wrong on Power and he hits the ceiling you and others think he has. I'd be so happy. 

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I hope I'm wrong on Power and he hits the ceiling you and others think he has. I'd be so happy. 

I think you’ll find our views on Power aren’t too far apart, I’d just be happier about our assumed outcome.

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No, you posted a survey of 10 scouts. We'll never know how many teams had power at 1, my guess is quite a few. 

The industry ranking power 1 for a draft class is worlds away from cross class comparisons. That's my point.

“10 (mostly) NHL club head scouts”, according to Bob. (Direct quote)

Worlds away wouldn’t be my choice of words, but I agree with your basic point: just because Power is an industry #1 this year doesn’t mean he’d be in contention other years.

However, it is my perception that the number of observers who believe Power will be a legit 25-minutes a night 1st-pairing D is greater than the number of observers who predict Cozens or Krebs will be legit 1Cs.

Doesnt mean I believe that, or that they’re right, it’s just my perception of what’s being said by actual scouts.

[Hoss]

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Hoss said:

I think you’ll find our views on Power aren’t too far apart, I’d just be happier about our assumed outcome.

My assumed outcome is Power is a 20-30pt defender and 1 of the forwards we passed on is a 80pt guy. 

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

“10 (mostly) NHL club head scouts”, according to Bob. (Direct quote)

Worlds away wouldn’t be my choice of words, but I agree with your basic point: just because Power is an industry #1 this year doesn’t mean he’d be in contention other years.

However, it is my perception that the number of observers who believe Power will be a legit 25-minutes a night 1st-pairing D is greater than the number of observers who predict Cozens or Krebs will be legit 1Cs.

Doesnt mean I believe that, or that they’re right, it’s just my perception of what’s being said by actual scouts.

If it were 10 directors of amateur scouting, that would be different. 

Scouting has major bias problems with height and recency. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Defense wins championships, even in this era.

If there is a Dman in the draft that is highly rated to be a 1st pairing guy in the future and you already have one it is the most reasonable to pick that guy number 1, if you are fortunate to have that pick.

If Rasmus becomes a Potvin and Power becomes a Robinson, or Korab, or Shooney, the Sabres have their D studs.  Cozens, with luck, will become a competent 1C and Mitts a 2C.

We need one, or two (can you imagine), goalie prospects to develop into solid 1A and 1B NHL goalers and the Sabres are set.

[LGR4GM]

If Adams is trading Eichel, I feel like today or Monday are the main days. Either Vegas is coughing up Krebs or Eichel goes to camp. Seems everyone else hasn't put a good enough offer out with the exception of maybe Minnesota. 

[Hoss]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Adams is trading Eichel, I feel like today or Monday are the main days. Either Vegas is coughing up Krebs or Eichel goes to camp. Seems everyone else hasn't put a good enough offer out with the exception of maybe Minnesota. 

Why today or tomorrow? What’s the significance?

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

My assumed outcome is Power is a 20-30pt defender and 1 of the forwards we passed on is a 80pt guy. 

There are plenty of 20-30 point defenders who are far better than many 80 point forwards.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Why today or tomorrow? What’s the significance?

There are plenty of 20-30 point defenders who are far better than many 80 point forwards.

We're close to the 8 weeks until camp Eichel needs to recover

9 minutes ago, Hoss said:

 

There are plenty of 20-30 point defenders who are far better than many 80 point forwards.

Can you list some in both directions?

[Curt]

25 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Defense wins championships, even in this era.

If there is a Dman in the draft that is highly rated to be a 1st pairing guy in the future and you already have one it is the most reasonable to pick that guy number 1, if you are fortunate to have that pick.

If Rasmus becomes a Potvin and Power becomes a Robinson, or Korab, or Shooney, the Sabres have their D studs.  Cozens, with luck, will become a competent 1C and Mitts a 2C.

We need one, or two (can you imagine), goalie prospects to develop into solid 1A and 1B NHL goalers and the Sabres are set.

If......

[Buffalonill]

Defense wins championship? No  Lol You have to have elite forwards too 

[Hoss]

28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Can you list some in both directions?

No, I don’t feel like taking the time to google specifically how many points certain players had. We both know there are some.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

41 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Defense wins championship? No  Lol You have to have elite forwards too 

I disagree, you need a well balanced roster.  IMO, no player needs to be elite.  I stand by my statement ... you need excellent D and G and some very good forwards.

[LGR4GM]

42 minutes ago, Hoss said:

No, I don’t feel like taking the time to google specifically how many points certain players had. We both know there are some.

Can you at least list a few players in the rough ballpark?

[Brawndo]

Michael Russo mentioned on a Podcast if Eichel’s Cap Hit was down to about 7 Million a deal would be done.

There is no way in hell the Sabres are retaining 3 million a year for 5 years. 
Even two million would be a stretch, Minny would need to entice a third non cap team to retain 1 to 1.5 million per year in exchange for a draft pick or prospect. 

[Derrico]

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Michael Russo mentioned on a Podcast if Eichel’s Cap Hit was down to about 7 Million a deal would be done.

There is no way in hell the Sabres are retaining 3 million a year for 5 years. 
Even two million would be a stretch, Minny would need to entice a third non cap team to retain 1 to 1.5 million per year in exchange for a draft pick or prospect. 

Agreed.  I just don’t see why we couldn’t take on shorter term cap dumps.  We have tons of cap space and will likely not be competitive for atleast two years.  Why wouldn’t we add a couple of those to maximize return?  I agree with you that I have no desire to eat $3 mil for Jack for 5 more years.  I’ll take back $7 or $8 for next two years though.

[Rasmus_]

***** Russo.  Jack Eichel is in line for his contract.  MacKinnon once he gets to his, will sign for more than $10M annually, Barkov will be getting north of 10M.  Eichel is a bench mark for the average elite franchise center.   If we're eating 3M, we better be getting Rossi, Boldy, Wallstedt, 2022 1st, Dumba and Khovanov. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Rasmus_

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Michael Russo mentioned on a Podcast if Eichel’s Cap Hit was down to about 7 Million a deal would be done.

There is no way in hell the Sabres are retaining 3 million a year for 5 years. 
Even two million would be a stretch, Minny would need to entice a third non cap team to retain 1 to 1.5 million per year in exchange for a draft pick or prospect. 

I'm assuming that wherever Jack is traded that there will be a secondary player or two sent to Buffalo in order for the receiving team to offset some of Jack's contract cost. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm assuming that wherever Jack is traded that there will be a secondary player or two sent to Buffalo in order for the receiving team to offset some of Jack's contract cost. 

I’m think in the case of Minnesota, the issue is less cap hit this year, and more the following three years when they are carrying about 14 million in dead cap space for Parise and Suter.

I’d retain $2 million on Eichel but they’re going to have to add to Boldy and Rossi.

[Derrico]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm assuming that wherever Jack is traded that there will be a secondary player or two sent to Buffalo in order for the receiving team to offset some of Jack's contract cost. 

I sure hope the Sabres are willing to include this.  No way you can move a $10 mil player and get the return you feel is fair without taking some money back.  
 

I understand pegulas hesitancy to do that based on past deals but it is too important for a trade this big.  Without adding money we will end up with ROR trade and then I’m going to light all my sabres gear on fire.  So financially, it’s probably better to take on some money now.  The only way the Sabres become profitable is if they start winning and making the playoffs. We need a good return for Jack.  Whatever it takes.

[7+6=13]

I'd tell any team, don't shop for things you can't afford.  We should only take on financial burden if it helps us, not to help the potential partner.

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, 7+6=13 said:

I'd tell any team, don't shop for things you can't afford.  We should only take on financial burden if it helps us, not to help the potential partner.

So no cap dumps and no salary retention for a broken Jack?  You have no idea how bad the return is going to be. 

[Broken Ankles]

25 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Agreed.  I just don’t see why we couldn’t take on shorter term cap dumps.  We have tons of cap space and will likely not be competitive for atleast two years.  Why wouldn’t we add a couple of those to maximize return?  I agree with you that I have no desire to eat $3 mil for Jack for 5 more years.  I’ll take back $7 or $8 for next two years though.

Like who?  Neither Minnesota nor Vegas have true “cap dumps” that will miraculously strengthen their roster/cap situations.  Minnesota had two toxic contracts and it resulted in buyouts.  Vegas discussions have supposedly included Smith to offset the cap hit John would add but he isn’t a cap dump.  Just someone who would get pushed outside the top six so is assumed included in a return.  He has some value. 

[Der Jaeger]

I think it’s going to be Vegas.  I think GMKM and his team are trying to figure out how to make LTIR work in the same way it worked for Tampa.  
 

Eichel doesn’t fit under a cap without LTIR, and I assume Tuch and Eichel will both need LTIR time.  That will also potentially give Vegas some accrued cap space.  Even if Vegas doesn’t dump a contract, they’re under the original cap with Eichel and Tuch on LTIR.  So there’s some daily cap space money to accrue.

I think the hold up is trying to make it work on Vegas’ end.  I’d bet GMKM is trying to make this work without giving up anyone on the roster.