Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Doohicksie]

29 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Just take the $10 freaking million back then.

The way it works is a team can retain no more than 50% of salary. Any salary retained is for the full term. So if Sabres retain 50% they'd pay $5M for 5 years for Jack to play for another team.

[WildCard]

27 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Nobody is saying retain anything. We're saying give us Minnesota contracts that add to $10m that come off in the next year or so. Cap dump onto the Sabres from the Wild

 

3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

The way it works is a team can retain no more than 50% of salary. Any salary retained is for the full term. So if Sabres retain 50% they'd pay $5M for 5 years for Jack to play for another team.

 

[Drag0nDan]

8 minutes ago, Derrico said:

THEN ***** TAKE BACK THE MONEY SO WE CAN MAXIMIZE THE TRADE.

Jesus Christ I don't know how TPegs made money in the oil and gas industry.  Yes, you want Eichel gone, but don't be so pig headed to exclude cash coming back on the deal.  It increases your return.  Probably dramatically in a flat salary cap era.  If you give Jack away you will continue being a bottom feeder and the building will be empty.  Take some cash back in the deal to maximize the return and maybe within 2-3 years the core and foundation is here to start winning sustainably which will in turn line your pockets. 

This times 100000000%.

Short sighted and it's going to bite them in the ass the EXACT same way it did with ROR.  Like, did we just go through that situation and saw exactly how well it played out for the Sabres.  Unbelievable if this is true.

Buffalo needs bodies anyway - the problem is who to take back that isn't a part of their plan.  Rask - but thats only 4 million.  Dumba gets to 10 but also, a major part of their team.  

How would salary retention work in a 5 year deal?

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

The way it works is a team can retain no more than 50% of salary. Any salary retained is for the full term. So if Sabres retain 50% they'd pay $5M for 5 years for Jack to play for another team.

Oof... you aint getting 50 then lol.

[Gatorman0519]

Minny, LA, or Anaheim not bad returns.  Although I like Rossi as a future top 6 center and a decent RH D prospect with another pick in next years draft.  We could pick up two really good, or at least possibly one elite center next year.  A few more years of sufferings, but with the right player development, we could get out of the basement in 3-4 years.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

It didn't make your point. The Bills added multiple important pieces via ufa. 

Which is my point.  Stay under the cap until it’s time, then add FA’’s.  The Bills did that too.  It’s relevant to the Sabres right now.  

[Radar]

2 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Minny, LA, or Anaheim not bad returns.  Although I like Rossi as a future top 6 center and a decent RH D prospect with another pick in next years draft.  We could pick up two really good, or at least possibly one elite center next year.  A few more years of sufferings, but with the right player development, we could get out of the basement in 3-4 years.

I think getting out of basement is possible quickly. Challenging for playoffs? 

[dudacek]

Anyone think the Eklund pick puts the Sharks in the conversation?

They've been aggressive in the past.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Anyone think the Eklund pick puts the Sharks in the conversation?

They've been aggressive in the past.

Not sure they have the cap room. 

[SabresVet]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

This isn't football. Stop. 

NFL franchises each get a $300M check every year for revenue sharing.  I'm guessing NHL teams receive significantly less.  From a purely financial perspective, those comparisons are not relevant.  NFL teams have to be really screwed up not to make money even in the pandemic.

I just keep seeing Terry pop up in everything and insistent on reducing costs.  With the Pegula's owning the Bills now (as opposed to when they first bought the Sabres) I don't think they'll be big spenders unless the team gets good.  And that's not gonna happen for at least 1-2 season.  So, they'll respond accordingly in a financial sense because even they're not dense enough to know tickets and merch sales will be way down this year. 

[dudacek]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Not sure they have the cap room. 

We'd have to take on a contract for sure and they have some terrible ones.

[Derrico]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

We'd have to take on a contract for sure and they have some terrible ones.

If it's 2 or years or less then the Sabres would be crazy to not include them.

You are trading the whale here.  They have to get back elite assets and nobody is going to pay that unless money is coming back in the deal.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

If it's 2 or years or less then the Sabres would be crazy to not include them.

You are trading the whale here.  They have to get back elite assets and nobody is going to pay that unless money is coming back in the deal.

Agreed.

But what else are they giving us to take on 4x$8 for Couture, or 3x$5 for Martin Jones?

[Stoner]

14 hours ago, SDS said:

A player “leading his team to the playoffs“ is one of the biggest piles of doggie doo fan fiction out there. 

Hockey isn’t basketball. A single player, not even the greatest talent in the league, can’t do that by themselves.

Well, no kidding. Is it your contention that the Lemieuxs and Gretzkys wouldn't have won Cups without good to great supporting casts? Maybe. But an alternate argument is that those supporters were good to great because of The Ones who led the way.

Eichel's tide didn't come close to lifting all boats.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

18 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

To add to that... 

Suzuki, 2022 1st, Cam Hillis, Josh Brook and Drouin as the dump

Suzuki is your high end C

Cam Hillis is your middle 6 C or RW

Josh Brook is a RHD who is probably a 4/5 on a good team

2022 1st because duh

and Drouin gets you 5.5mil saved for a few years. 

I still think DROUIN!! 😎 can be a good player in this league

[WildCard]

Just now, New Scotland (NS) said:

I still think DROUIN!! 😎 can be a good player in this league

Drouin and Strome...*looks at Kent Johnson*

Yeah, he's definitely gonna work out

[thewookie1]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agreed.

But what else are they giving us to take on 4x$8 for Couture, or 3x$5 for Martin Jones?

Couture is actually 6x8mil

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

Nobody is saying retain anything. We're saying give us Minnesota contracts that add to $10m that come off in the next year or so. Cap dump onto the Sabres from the Wild

We could really use a Victor rask next year anyway

Edited July 26, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[Randall Flagg]

14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Well, no kidding. Is it your contention that the Lemieuxs and Gretzkys wouldn't have won Cups without good to great supporting casts? Maybe. But an alternate argument is that those supporters were good to great because of The Ones who led the way.

Eichel's tide didn't come close to lifting all boats.

Did you catch my maths on Sabres with/without jack on the ice over his career compared to other stars? If "lifting all boats" means "improving the team's win loss record," many surprising names didn't do as much in the standings as eichel

[Second Line Center]

No one especially the teams that didn't make the playoffs this year are trading us an unprotected 1st round pick in 2022.  There is ZERO chance.  

The first reason is if Jack needs surgery he is out half the season.  Maybe more.  Good luck making the playoffs so you're a Lotto team.  

If he is ready to go from the start that still won't mean that team is playoff bound.   

This injury situation is just a complete disaster I think not enough people are acknowledging because of the implications.

And I have no reason to think it might actually be worse then we're bring told - KA keeps referring (God please stop talking about it) to the surgery as "never been done."  And the news that has me just completely dejected is the report yesterday Jack still wants the surgery and that there are different kinds he can opt for.  Peak trade value is completely sunk.  

Teams know we need to trade him this year or the no movement kicks in - meaning that if the surgery doesn't get him to the player he was, they are "stuck." 

How this team has handled this behind the scenes and in public in the last year is mind boggling (reports we explored a deal last year - how can we let that news slip out). 

This is going to be bad unless we add something to the deal.  Probably 50 cents on the dollar.  

Edited July 26, 2021 by Second Line Center

[Topshelf13]

If Minnesota wants Adams to take some contracts, why not Dumba. He plays Right D and plays a physical game. He can provide a presence if a team starts getting chippy. 

[Digger]

At this point I'm not sure there's much else to say on the potential Eichel trade.  We've all put forward trade scenarios that make sense for the Sabres from our perspective.  We keep hearing that other teams don't want to include A+ prospects (which doesn't make sense to me because Jack is taking the place as their new #1 center so give future quality for a for sure thing).  Until we get some credible news about a potential trade scenario it's hard to keep speculating.

I don't know how to improve the "health situation" uestions.  It didn't help that Adams said he did not know if Jack was skating again (like his agent said).  Is he improving as expected he would with rest, physio, and exercise?  Does he really need surgery?  If so what's recommended?

Taking back salary?  Okay with me but then again Adams said that he doesn't want veterans taking away ice time and critical game situations from the young core (he said that in regards to FA's).  So perhaps we take back a dead contract where the player is on injured reserve.  We do have a need for a veteran or two on the blue line in my opinion ideally on the right side.  We do have a need for a goalie veteran even if Ullmark resigns with us.  It's easy to take back money but I don't blame Adams for being selective with what he takes back.  The players have to fit the team and help build the team's culture.  Perhaps the best thing would be to consider salary retention (but that just sounds nuts to pay for part of Eichel's salary to play for another team).

[Derrico]

42 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agreed.

But what else are they giving us to take on 4x$8 for Couture, or 3x$5 for Martin Jones?

I'm not familiar with their system.  Do they have any elite C prospects?

[triumph_communes]

5 hours ago, Hoss said:

So I'm going to waste some time and brain up some trade packages for the teams mentioned at the forefront of this Eichel stuff tonight - based on the "2022 first-round pick ... at least one top prospect and two young, NHL-proven players." Price reported by David Pagnotta. I don't believe they get those four. I believe they get three and then some salaries to match. I'm not going to dive into the salaries to match and focus on the young pieces. In many of these deals we'll likely need to add a young NHL body like Olofsson or someone similiar.

Calgary Flames (mentioned in Friedman & Pagnotta's reports)

2022 First From Calgary (no protection)

Top prospects: C Connor Zary or C/LW Jakob Pelletier

NHL-proven players: C Dillon Dube, LW Matthew Tkachuk, LHD Noah Hanifin, LHD Jusso Valimaki

Final deal: 2022 First, Connor Zary, Matthew Tkachuk

Logic: This feels like too steep of a price to expect Calgary to pay but it's hard to get a mix that makes sense without these three piece. Tkachuk means no veteran salary dumps needed. Monahan doesn't make sense because he's likely aging out of what they want (I'm only doing players under 25). They won't move Hanifin. If you swap in Dube for Tkachuk then you're going to need to add one of Valimaki or Pelletier and some salary.

Anaheim Ducks (mentioned in both reports)

2022 First From Anaheim (no protection)

Top prospects: C Trevor Zegras, C Mason McTavish, D Jamie Drysdale

Young, NHL-proven players: LW Max Comtois, RW Troy Terry, C Sam Steel, C Isac Lundestrom, LW Max Jones

Final deal: 2022 First, Max Comtois, Mason McTavish

Logic: Anaheim would also need to mix and match salaries and I highly doubt they trade a player they just loved enough to take third overall, but I don't see Zegras or Drysdale being involved. If they were this deal would be done already. I don't think Anaheim is willing to pay the price it would take. (Yes, I'm aware I was loose with "NHL-proven" here).

Los Angeles Kings (mentioned in Pagnotta's but not Friedman's report)

2022 First From Los Angeles (no protection)

Top prospects: C Quinton Byfield, C Alex Turcotte, RW Arthur Kaliyev, C Rasmus Kupari, RHD Brandt Clarke, RHD Brock Faber

Young, NHL-proven players: RW Carl Grundstrom, C Adrian Kempe, C Gabe Vilardi, LHD Tobias Bjornfot

Final deal: 2022 First, Brock Faber, Adrian Kempe, Alex Turcotte

Logic: This deal feels closest to reality because it doesn't even touch LA's top two in Byfield and Turcotte and builds on a young C, a more "veteran" C and a RHD which the team needs more of. This deal feels the most fulfilling from a team-building perspective.

Minnesota Wild (mentioned in Friedman's report, Pagnotta says he thinks they're not willing)

2022 First From Minnesota (no protection)

Top prospects: C Marco Rossi, LW Matthew Boldy, RHD Calen Addison

Young, NHL-proven players: C Joel Eriksson Ek, LW Jordan Greenway

Final deal: 2022 First, Marco Rossi, Calen Addison

Logic: I don't expect the Sabres to get both Rossi AND Boldy in this deal even though that's probably the fanbase's biggest hope in any of these deals. Addison gives them an NHL-ready RHD prospect and with Minnesota tearing down their roster a bit that 2022 first rounder could be worth a lot. The salaries with the Wild are the most interesting ones because they don't have bad contracts left. That means whoever is added (Fiala/Dumba) would either have an impact in our lineup or be flipped for additional assets.

Las Vegas Golden Knights (mentioned in Pagnotta's reporter, not Friedman's)

2022 First From Las Vegas (no protection)

Top Prospects: C Peyton Krebs

Young, NHL-proven players: LHD Nicolas Hague, C Nolan Patrick

Final deal: 2022 First, Peyton Krebs, Alex Tuch

Logic: Okay, Tuch didn't make my qualification of under 25 but I'll allow him to slide in as the young, NHL-proven player here. This deal doesn't feel great overall simply because that first round pick isn't worth much. Financially and asset wise Vegas doesn't make much sense ... I also don't think they can just keep getting rid of all their prospects and first round picks in every draft.

 

Ultimately, I think chances are this deal gets done and their one or two pieces that are considered "centerpieces" that I don't list here and that we haven't really clamored for. Those pieces will be sold as great pieces, either out of desperation or because the Sabres front office actually believes in those pieces. I think we get a resolution soon.

Great post. Highlights how 90% of us are going to be disappointed with the return under these assumptions. Not that they aren’t realistic assumptions, but makes it clear. 

[Derrico]

12 minutes ago, Digger said:

At this point I'm not sure there's much else to say on the potential Eichel trade.  We've all put forward trade scenarios that make sense for the Sabres from our perspective.  We keep hearing that other teams don't want to include A+ prospects (which doesn't make sense to me because Jack is taking the place as their new #1 center so give future quality for a for sure thing).  Until we get some credible news about a potential trade scenario it's hard to keep speculating.

I don't know how to improve the "health situation" uestions.  It didn't help that Adams said he did not know if Jack was skating again (like his agent said).  Is he improving as expected he would with rest, physio, and exercise?  Does he really need surgery?  If so what's recommended?

Taking back salary?  Okay with me but then again Adams said that he doesn't want veterans taking away ice time and critical game situations from the young core (he said that in regards to FA's).  So perhaps we take back a dead contract where the player is on injured reserve.  We do have a need for a veteran or two on the blue line in my opinion ideally on the right side.  We do have a need for a goalie veteran even if Ullmark resigns with us.  It's easy to take back money but I don't blame Adams for being selective with what he takes back.  The players have to fit the team and help build the team's culture.  Perhaps the best thing would be to consider salary retention (but that just sounds nuts to pay for part of Eichel's salary to play for another team).

Or you take back salary but still play those guys where they belong in the lineup.  

[SDS]

45 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Well, no kidding. Is it your contention that the Lemieuxs and Gretzkys wouldn't have won Cups without good to great supporting casts? Maybe. But an alternate argument is that those supporters were good to great because of The Ones who led the way.

Eichel's tide didn't come close to lifting all boats.

Leading the way and lifting all boats are those touchy-feely phrases that sounds good coming from TV analysts, but have no meaning in reality.

When can easily make a case why Mario Lemieux’s linemate is better with him than without him. That becomes orders of magnitude harder in explaining the affect on performance of the third line left winger.