Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

yes they are. Again, Tampa did pretty good importing it. 

Lol, you should rewatch that series. 

[Curt]

@PerreaultForever @LGR4GM

You guys a kind of swinging at the wind.

Does anyone think that you can build a contending team on analytics and offensive players while neglecting the ability to play/withstand the physical and mental parts of the game?

Does anyone think that Wayne Simmonds, or another aged, physical vet with very little left in the tank, makes a huge difference for Toronto, or is a key piece of a Cup contender?

You guys are fighting against the ideas of you most dislike, not discussing what each other are actually saying.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

@PerreaultForever 

@LGR4GM

You guys a kind of swinging at the wind.

Does anyone think that you can build a contending team on analytics and offensive players while neglecting the ability to play/withstand the physical and mental parts of the game?

Does anyone think that Wayne Simmonds, or another aged, physical vet with very little left in the tank, makes a huge difference for Toronto, or is a key piece of a Cup contender?

You guys are fighting against the ideas of you most dislike, not discussing what each other are actually saying.

I don't. I've never said that either. My argument is simply adding in old vets for "toughness" doesn't work. 

[Marvin]

What I would be curious about is if someone is collecting data on checks finished, take-aways via physical engagement, board battles won, etc.  IMHO, this would be useful, albeit hard to quantify.  We would be able to determine how much a Wayne Simmonds helps or hurts different teams.

One thing that no one seems to remember is that, at the time and before the playoffs, the 2005-6 Sabres were nicknamed things like "the pond-hockey pansies" on several well-regarded major media sites.  They were considered soft like "cotton fluff" and "tough as shattered glass".  They were seen to be undermining "traditional hockey."  No one here remembers that because we have seen games with them playing a demonstrably tougher style in the playoffs.  In the playoffs, everyone can see for themselves how that team turned into a much physically tougher team.  A team need not play a tough game in the regular season yet still be tough as a $1/lb steak in the playoffs.

[Thorner]

40 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

First, I've sung the praises of Cozens from the draft onwards. Nothing added needed. Quinn and Peterka remains to be seen. I'm high on Peterka, not sure about Quinn. 

Second, you win in the playoffs with the ability to face and deter what the opposition throws at you. Again, Tampa got tougher for a reason. Pittsburgh, with prime Crosby is the only recent (arguable) exception to the rule that you need toughness to win it all. It'd be great if you can do that with true power forwards and young studs, but in a salary cap era, generally you need the low cost Simmons type players to fill out the bottom end and your reserves. 

yes they are. Again, Tampa did pretty good importing it. 

Crosby is one of the toughest players in the league. Knock him off the puck in his prime, knock Forsberg off the puck in his prime..same difference 

Crosby is probably the best Grinder the game has ever seen 

Remember when Sid took out Risto will a well aimed, clean hip check a few games ago because Risto had been in his face for 2 periods? The Crosby of his first few years has been gone for a decade, and the idea he's still that player is a myth. He fights his own battles as well as anyone - it's something admirable in any player - and a sign of true toughness. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Crosby is one of the toughest players in the league. Knock him off the puck in his prime, knock Forsberg off the puck in his prime..same difference 

Crosby is probably the best Grinder the game has ever seen 

Remember when Sid took out Risto will a well aimed, clean hip check a few games ago because Risto had been in his face for 2 periods? The Crosby of his first few years has been gone for a decade, and the idea he's still that player is a myth. He fights his own battles as well as anyone - it's something admirable in any player - and a sign of true toughness. 

Crosby's definitely grittier than he was (back for example in that series where Giroux demolished him and they went down to defeat) . I just meant that team as a whole was a skill team and not very tough but so skilled they won it all. It's a rare occurrence. You're more likely to have a Bruins/Canucks type situation where the more talented ends up on the losing end. 

[That Aud Smell]

Welp.

 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Welp.

 

This is what I’ve been saying. Team’s don’t trade their best prospects 

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Welp.

 

Someone better get an olive branch then.... or some pitch forks and torches

Edited May 11, 2021 by thewookie1

[Thorner]

Gotta find a hockey trade 

- - -

And it’s why the consensus 1 always goes 1 overall. And why there are no offer sheets. And why GMs always elect the long term rebuild : Risk Aversion 

Being afraid to make the big mistake drives the lion’s share of their strategy

Edited May 11, 2021 by Thorny

[Weave]

23 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Gotta find a hockey trade 

- - -

And it’s why the consensus 1 always goes 1 overall. And why there are no offer sheets. And why GMs always elect the long term rebuild : Risk Aversion 

Being afraid to make the big mistake drives the lion’s share of their strategy

Except GMTM.  He gets pilloried for risk taking moves.

[aristocrat]

if we trade eichel we call calgary and get monahan and either gaudreau or tkatchuk.  go into the year with monahan cozens top two centers, trade risto for whatever, draft the d man top overall hopefully.  

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

if we trade eichel we call calgary and get monahan and either gaudreau or tkatchuk.  go into the year with monahan cozens top two centers, trade risto for whatever, draft the d man top overall hopefully.  

We should target Lindholm as the centre 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, aristocrat said:

if we trade eichel we call calgary and get monahan and either gaudreau or tkatchuk.  go into the year with monahan cozens top two centers, trade risto for whatever, draft the d man top overall hopefully.  

If we're moving jack, i expose risto in the expansion draft.  I'm just going to get bad salary back in any trade for assets anyway, and I'd rather keep a borgen around at this point.  

[Radar]

15 minutes ago, Weave said:

Except GMTM.  He gets pilloried for risk taking moves.

And we saw how that ended.

[aristocrat]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We should target Lindholm as the centre 

while that would be nice monahan is more available. monahan is a very good player as well

 

[steveoath]

Tkachuk plus monahan/Lindholm and what for Eichel. I would be interested in seeing something starting here.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Radar said:

And we saw how that ended.

His mentality is much closer to what we need. Dudacek was right we just need the person to also have people skills, too

Just now, steveoath said:

Tkachuk plus monahan/Lindholm and what for Eichel. I would be interested in seeing something starting here.

I think the appeal for them is to pair Tkachuk WITH Jack. I’d be thinking Lindholm/Gaudreau/Prospect/Pick

[Thorner]

We probably add to have Gaudreau in. The bones for a blockbuster are there. I’d imagine they could sell the battle of Alberta Jack vs McDavid avenue pretty well 

Hell, I wanna see it 

[thewookie1]

Give me Tkachuk and Lindholm and get a Tkachuk extension predetermined and accepted. I could live with that 

[Sabre fan]

Gaudreau just just so small...gets pushed off the puck as soon as the going gets rough...I want us to get harder and tougher to play against, not easier.  I wish we could get Tkachuk but I highly doubt that...

[steveoath]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

His mentality is much closer to what we need. Dudacek was right we just need the person to also have people skills, too

I think the appeal for them is to pair Tkachuk WITH Jack. I’d be thinking Lindholm/Gaudreau/Prospect/Pick

Yeah I see that for them. I'd love to see Tkachuk with Cozens and possibly (in a year or 2) Matej Pekar. They could be hard to play against. (Maybe even the relentlessness of JJP when he's ready).

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We probably add to have Gaudreau in. The bones for a blockbuster are there. I’d imagine they could sell the battle of Alberta Jack vs McDavid avenue pretty well 

Hell, I wanna see it 

Tkachuk Lindholm(or Monahan) and Gaudreau for Jack and Sam??

Edited May 11, 2021 by steveoath

[Sabre fan]

If we could get Tkachuk, Lindoholm AND Monahan for the two cry babies that would work for sure...again I doubt we get that much but yes again it would sure set up a even more intense battle of Alberta one that Calgary is losing big time these days and they do need to do something big...

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

Gaudreau just just so small...gets pushed off the puck as soon as the going gets rough...I want us to get harder and tougher to play against, not easier.  I wish we could get Tkachuk but I highly doubt that...

 

5 minutes ago, steveoath said:

Yeah I see that for them. I'd love to see Tkachuk with Cozens and possibly (in a year or 2) Matej Pekar. They could be hard to play against. (Maybe even the relentlessness of JJP when he's ready).

Tkachuk Lindholm(or Monahan) and Gaudreau for Jack and Sam??

If we are talking tough to play against, I really think we should push for Lindholm over SM in this scenario 

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

This is what I’ve been saying. Team’s don’t trade their best prospects 

That is true in the NHL, but there will be a few teams that just missed the playoffs and have some pressure on them to make it next year, not 3 years in the future...

Or even more....a team will not go as far in this years playoffs as they expect...and pressure will some from the fanbase and/or ownership that next year is a 'make or break' year.  

Find the handfull of teams that applies to, with a coach and/or GM on the hotseat...that THAT is where you will find more demand for Eichel at the expense of prospects that may be good 1-3 years down the road.