Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Curt]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I don't think the Sabres make those trades without a significant add, which I think is kinda @Curt's point.

It's about the hole ripped in your team in order to add a player of Jack's quality. Real contenders already have core players and probably don't need a building block as massive as Eichel to put themselves over the top.

Yes, if a team is already having a fair amount of success, they will be very hesitant to rip the heart out of their team in exchange for Eichel.  Maybe it works out for them, or maybe Eichel becomes (remains?) very injury prone, or maybe he shows he isn’t a “winner” or whatever.

Point is they are going to default to sticking with the big guys who have gotten them this far and see if they push the team farther with them, as opposed to blowing it up.  If it was a video game then yeah, the AI would accept the trade, but these are people who have built real relationships together.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Curt

[Thorner]

That's why I'd be leaning closer to something like a 1-for-1. The other team probably does it, and in my estimation we are much better off slotting Scheifele right into the 1 slot above the kids, than with the grab bag of good prospects/picks from the Kings. 

You take your lumps on the talent difference because your organization ruined the goodwill of your franchise player who's now going to ask out. You lose the trade, but gain the certainty of a great player in return. Much stronger strategy than the hubris of thinking you can you can identify the prospects/draft choices that can equal Jack down the line, or going for quantity over quality, as if that has worked before. 

[Weave]

Any trade of Jack is not going to be a Jack for Center X trade by itself.  It would almost certainly be patterned after the Turgeon-LaFontaine trade with multiple parts moving.

The Sabres traded their just below star level center, a 3rd line LW, top pair D man, and a throw in center for a superstar center, middle 6 LW, and a bottom pair D man.

If we are the team with the superstar center we would be downgrading C a bit, upgrading D to balance the trade, and maybe swith out equal parts to get a different mix.

So an actual trade of Jack in concept would look more like Jack, Miller, and Bjork/Thompson for a lesser 1C, top pair D man, and middle 6 wing.  Maybe you sub a goalie coming back instead of a defenseman upgrade, but that is the idea.

[Curt]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:35 AM, Thorny said:

Can you explain what it is that gives you the feeling that Eichel isn’t a leader that binds the group together? Something free of variables like, say, the roster around him being terrible, or a bad coach behind the bench? 

What specifically is Jack lacking? Is it his skating style? Curious. 

I certainly see the passion all the time, more than any other player here, what with all those smashed sticks. Based on interviews his maturity is much improved too. And we can’t forget those snaps we sometimes see of him, say, coaching up Dahlin on the bench with the iPad..

Been meaning to reply to this.  Got busy.

Well, first off, it’s certainly a subjective thing, so I won’t be upset if someone sees things differently.

It’s definitely not his skating style.  To be honest, I feel like the fact that we need to say that it seems his maturity has improved, is part of my issue.  For a captain with strong leadership skills, you would not be noting that his maturity has improved from below average to averagish.

I guess I just see him as a bit of a temperamental guy who gets bent out of shape and a little down when things don’t go his way.  As opposed to a guy who “rallies the troops”.

I certainly don’t question how hard he works, I’m not saying that he isn’t passionate, and I’m not saying that he is a bad influence.  Just that I don’t think he brings anything particularly special as a leader that I would worry about losing if he was to be moved.  In summary: Great player, ordinary leadership.

Again, this is just my view of him from the outside.  It’s very subjective and it’s ok if someone sees it differently.

[Believer]

On 4/18/2021 at 2:53 PM, Curt said:

Yes, if a team is already having a fair amount of success, they will be very hesitant to rip the heart out of their team in exchange for Eichel.  Maybe it works out for them, or maybe Eichel becomes (remains?) very injury prone, or maybe he shows he isn’t a “winner” or whatever.

Point is they are going to default to sticking with the big guys who have gotten them this far and see if they push the team farther with them, as opposed to blowing it up.  If it was a video game then yeah, the AI would accept the trade, but these are people who have built real relationships together.

Eichel is not a winner... Eichel is not a leader... Eichel does not want to be in Buffalo... The “C” wouldn’t even rehab here... Wasn’t here with his teammates during the losing streak... offering support in the press and leadership in the locker room... Given a similar circumstance, who thinks Josh Allen would have abandoned his team??... Adams should have ripped the “C”from his sweater and given it to a player who cares about his mates... Trade Eichel now while he still has decent value... He is not part of any positive Sabres future...

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, Believer said:

Eichel is not a winner... Eichel is not a leader... Eichel does not want to be in Buffalo... The “C” wouldn’t even rehab here... Wasn’t here with his teammates during the losing streak... offering support in the press and leadership in the locker room... Given a similar circumstance, who thinks Josh Allen would have abandoned his team??... Adams should have ripped the “C”from his sweater and given it to a player who cares about his mates... Trade Eichel now while he still has decent value... He is not part of any positive Sabres future...

 

[PerreaultForever]

What about Turcotte & Byfield for Eichel? 

or Byfield Turcotte and a pick or two (perhaps conditional)?

[Hoss]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

What about Turcotte & Byfield for Eichel? 

or Byfield Turcotte and a pick or two (perhaps conditional)?

This one has been the most frequently suggested offering and I still think it's a hell no for me. I'm not trading Eichel unless I'm getting at least two pieces I know can play in the NHL immediately. Turcotte and Byfield probably get an NHL shot next season but they could also be two absolute nothings and then we end up watching one of the most talented players in this franchise's history walk for zilch.

[Broken Ankles]

19 minutes ago, Hoss said:

This one has been the most frequently suggested offering and I still think it's a hell no for me. I'm not trading Eichel unless I'm getting at least two pieces I know can play in the NHL immediately. Turcotte and Byfield probably get an NHL shot next season but they could also be two absolute nothings and then we end up watching one of the most talented players in this franchise's history walk for zilch.

How many second overall (Byfield) turn out to be a bust?   It’s much more probable the prospect is a legit top 90 player than a bust.  By a long shot.  Granted you are resetting the timeline, but I’m strictly talking about talent.  He’s crushing the AHL as an 18 year old out here in Ontario.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Broken Ankles

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

How many second overall (Byfield) turn out to be a bust?   It’s much more probable the prospect is a legit top 90 player than a bust.  By a long shot.  Granted you are resetting the timeline, but I’m strictly talking about talent.  He’s crushing the AHL as an 18 year old out here in Ontario.

Ryan Murray is the only bust of the ten-year stretch I looked at where it's fair to judge them by now but Nolan Patrick could soon join them. Otherwise you've got almost exclusively stars aside from ... Samson Reinhart (who is damn good in his own right). So point well made.

If I'm doing a deal with LA I'd want to get Adrian Kempe coming our way. So maybe a deal like Kempe, Byfield, Turcotte and a young defenseman we do NOT have to protect for Eichel and Risto. If they'd like pretty much any of our scraps they're more than welcome to pick more.

[Scottysabres]

4 hours ago, Hoss said:

This one has been the most frequently suggested offering and I still think it's a hell no for me. I'm not trading Eichel unless I'm getting at least two pieces I know can play in the NHL immediately. Turcotte and Byfield probably get an NHL shot next season but they could also be two absolute nothings and then we end up watching one of the most talented players in this franchise's history walk for zilch.

As talented as Eichel is, he doesn't make the top 10 for franchise talent, imo. And don't mistake that opinion as an anti-Eichel thing. After watching nearly every season for 50 years, 45 of them with memories galore, this franchise had 10 better overall players and/or impact players than Eichel.

Is he good? Sure, you bet. But, he is expendable if doing so moves the franchise closer to Cuo contention. Again, imho.

[LGR4GM]

Most of you are exactly the type of people who would have called Ovechkin bad before they won a cup. 

 

30 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

As talented as Eichel is, he doesn't make the top 10 for franchise talent, imo. And don't mistake that opinion as an anti-Eichel thing. After watching nearly every season for 50 years, 45 of them with memories galore, this franchise had 10 better overall players and/or impact players than Eichel.

Is he good? Sure, you bet. But, he is expendable if doing so moves the franchise closer to Cuo contention. Again, imho.

I disagree with literally everything written here. It's solely based on the team being crap and not based on Eichel's talent. 

[LGR4GM]

Go look at the top 10 teams in the league. Now compare their talent to ours. Now compare their talent to ours without eichel. 

Now ask yourself, is eichel the reason we're losing or is it because we put our nice engine in a car with no tires. 

[Radar]

47 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

As talented as Eichel is, he doesn't make the top 10 for franchise talent, imo. And don't mistake that opinion as an anti-Eichel thing. After watching nearly every season for 50 years, 45 of them with memories galore, this franchise had 10 better overall players and/or impact players than Eichel.

Is he good? Sure, you bet. But, he is expendable if doing so moves the franchise closer to Cuo contention. Again, imho.

Have to look at position also. Would Eichel be a top ten center? Are centers mire valued? All legitimate questions. For me it's not Eichel that's wrong with the team. It's goaltending, young players still developing in the NHL and quality depth. I'm pretty happy with our top forward line makeup. Several bottom six guys are marginal NHL players. Our defense even with McCabe has room for improvement. Bryson has been a pleasant surprise and Dahlin is beginning to show what was expected. I would swap Risto out but even there for who? My take is this is a team problem not a leadership or Eichel problem. But I've seen the development of Cozens and Mitts as hopeful signs as well as a few others that we're not that far from a playoff team. VO I'm undecided think he could be part of a trade. Not sure.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Radar

[Scottysabres]

39 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Most of you are exactly the type of people who would have called Ovechkin bad before they won a cup. 

 

I disagree with literally everything written here. It's solely based on the team being crap and not based on Eichel's talent. 

Incorrect.

It's based solely on an actual lifetime of watching the club. I disagree with your disagreement.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

As talented as Eichel is, he doesn't make the top 10 for franchise talent, imo. And don't mistake that opinion as an anti-Eichel thing. After watching nearly every season for 50 years, 45 of them with memories galore, this franchise had 10 better overall players and/or impact players than Eichel.

Is he good? Sure, you bet. But, he is expendable if doing so moves the franchise closer to Cuo contention. Again, imho.

Isn’t anyone expendable if the process of moving the player moves us closer to cup contention? 

The issue is achieving that result when moving a player of Eichel’s caliber is exceptionally difficult 

[Scottysabres]

Just now, Thorny said:

Isn’t anyone expendable if the process of moving the player moves us closer to cup contention? 

The issue is achieving that result when moving a player of Eichel’s caliber is exceptionally difficult 

You'll get no disagreement from me here.

[Thorner]

They’d be attempting the platform dive with the highest degree of difficulty when they probably only need an 8.0

[Scottysabres]

27 minutes ago, Radar said:

Have to look at position also. Would Eichel be a top ten center? Are centers mire valued? All legitimate questions. For me it's not Eichel that's wrong with the team. It's goaltending, young players still developing in the NHL and quality depth. I'm pretty happy with our top forward line makeup. Several bottom six guys are marginal NHL players. Our defense even with McCabe has room for improvement. Bryson has been a pleasant surprise and Dahlin is beginning to show what was expected. I would swap Risto out but even there for who? My take is this is a team problem not a leadership or Eichel problem. But I've seen the development of Cozens and Mitts as hopeful signs as well as a few others that we're not that far from a playoff team. VO I'm undecided think he could be part of a trade. Not sure.

I'm not the least bit interested if Eichel is a top 10 center in the league to be fair. And I haven't stated Eichel is the or even an issue with the team. Like I said, it's not an anti-Eichel thing here. He's expendable, if it moves the franchise closer to cup contention, imho.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

Incorrect.

It's based solely on an actual lifetime of watching the club. I disagree with your disagreement.

Your perspective is SEVERELY broken if you don't think Jack Eichel is one of the 10 best players to play for the Sabres. More recency bias, all because he looked like ***** while playing injured this year for a terrible coach. 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Isn’t anyone expendable if the process of moving the player moves us closer to cup contention? 

The issue is achieving that result when moving a player of Eichel’s caliber is exceptionally difficult 

Yes and my contention has never been you can't move Eichel, just that if you do it must be for an overpayment to make sure you not only reproduce Jack but also add on to what he brings (80-90pts a season). 

[bob_sauve28]

Jack will have a different role on the team next year, I'd imagine. RK over used him, imo. With a more balanced lineup I bet he ice time gets cut down somewhat. 

 

Seeing Samson scoring from the side wall over there, which is usually where Jack is, makes me wonder if those two will be on separate lines from now on. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Jack will have a different role on the team next year, I'd imagine. RK over used him, imo. With a more balanced lineup I bet he ice time gets cut down somewhat. 

 

Seeing Samson scoring from the side wall over there, which is usually where Jack is, makes me wonder if those two will be on separate lines from now on. 

This is just my opinion and it is not an argument that you are wrong. I see Reinhart rejoining Jack to form our first line. The issue then becomes who will be the other winger? I think it will be Skinner but can't say for sure. I strongly believe that putting Skinner on the first line with those two players will put him in a position to succeed and to a large extent return him to form. That would be such a major bonus. 

And with Jack back on the PP this unit will regain its potency that it seems to have lost without him. Mitts and Cozens will probably be the centers for the second and third lines. With Jack as the #1 C we have a strong middle group. I expect Cozens to make a leap forward next year.  

[That Aud Smell]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Your perspective is SEVERELY broken if you don't think Jack Eichel is one of the 10 best players to play for the Sabres.

If you're icing an all-time Sabres team, Eichel skates on the top line as a wing or centres the second line. I realize that creates an issue with Lafontaine. Come to think of it - I think I prefer Eichel on the wing on the top line. I think Lafontaine is more of a playmaker than Eichel.

I'm talking strictly in terms of the calibre of player - not stats, accomplishments, etc.

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

If you're icing an all-time Sabres team, Eichel skates on the top line as a wing or centres the second line. I realize that creates an issue with Lafontaine. Come to think of it - I think I prefer Eichel on the wing on the top line. I think Lafontaine is more of a playmaker than Eichel.

I'm talking strictly in terms of the calibre of player - not stats, accomplishments, etc.

I know you said no stats..but Patty had a pretty balanced goals/assists ratio almost every year, very balanced. I see Jack as much more of a playmaker by choice

Also I think Jack is the best passer on the team after MAYBE Dahlin (but RD probably isn't quite there yet). Sam is great but he doesn't create as much space so doesn't always find the lanes Jack does. On the PP Jack constantly sets up players for open-net goals with his dishing. Usually on the PP I'm asking him to shoot MORE as he always seems to be trying to make the pass play first. 

The style of Eichel's passing reminds me of Getzlaf, actually.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Thorny

[erickompositör72]

Yeah, I think people are forgetting watching a healthy Jack, and how, when he has the puck in the offensive zone, he just skates around and toys with the other team. They simply cannot take the puck from him. They just try to take all passing lanes away from him and keep him to the perimeter. Oh yeah, and they usually double team him. Oh yeah, and they still can't take the puck away from him.