Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[mjd1001]

25 minutes ago, sabrefanday1 said:

TSN reporting maybe a trade of Jack and Dahlin to the Laughs for Marner. Whatever...

That is a joke you are making, right?

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

That is a joke you are making, right?

It's not a report, it's just some article TSN has about creative trade ideas.

[Derrico]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Wow, are we really going to get another ROR trade when Adams dumps him for pennies on the dollar tomorrow night after all the serious suitors move on?

We better ***** not

[Hoss]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

It's not a report, it's just some article TSN has about creative trade ideas.

And by creative they/you mean “Canadian hockey fan take salvia and makes things up.”

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

And by creative they/you mean “Canadian hockey fan take salvia and makes things up.”

Hey man, I can't throw rocks at that glass house

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

That was my thing. I never thought Dahlin's and Eichel's timelines matched up.

I doubt that Jack’s timeline and Dahlin timeline are different or a problem.  Not a firm believer in timelines like this.  Why not win in Eichel’s peak timeline, then keep winning in Dahlin’s, and Cozens peak timeline?  
 

Tampa is winning and Stamkos is well past his peak, and that’s because of Hedman, Kucherov, Point, and their goaltending.  
 

The problem with the Sabres is the ever changing coaches and GMs, which makes every new GM try to fix the previous guys errors and then start over to some level.   None of these GMs have been able to bring in glue type players to support the core of Reinhart/Eichel/Dahlin.   None have come close to addressing goaltending at the NHL level.  None have found veterans that made a significant impact.  All of made questionable trades and contract decisions.  The drafting has been mediocre especially for the slotting of the picks we have   

At the root of the problem is ownerships inability to hire good people, then be patient and get out of the way.   

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

Really surprised we're not seeing any legit smoke right now...

Could be a long summer 

lolll

[jsb]

13 minutes ago, Hoss said:

And by creative they/you mean “Canadian hockey fan take salvia and makes things up.”

They grow this stuff in Toronto???

[SDS]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This would be correct if I could assume competent thought went into determining both. Because of how obviously off base the prospect of choosing was, I can't assume there's logic informing the assessment of quality. 

That's fine. I think it is instructive to get out of your own bubble. There are a lot of people here thinking the return will be low. Then an uniformed Puck Daddy will have been essentially right in the broad scheme of things.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

That's fine. I think it is instructive to get out of your own bubble. There are a lot of people here thinking the return will be low. Then an uniformed Puck Daddy will have been essentially right in the broad scheme of things.

We shall see. Is this a prelude to absolving Adams regardless of the return?

[SDS]

Just now, Thorny said:

We shall see. Is this a prelude to absolving Adams regardless of the return?

It's no secret that I don't care for straw man arguments. I don't like making up a scenario and then criticizing someone for not taking action on my personal hockey fantasies. I think trades are much more about the buyer than the seller. People know he is on the block and they know the ask. There isn't much Adams needs to do after that.

[I-90 W]

If Adams can’t get a good haul he should just hold off. The culture will continue to be bad (possibly) and things might get ugly next season but we have to maximize our return. KA isn’t going to trade him just to trade him, his job could be riding on how this goes. Maybe not immediately, but two-three years from now it would be the first thing that would be brought up.

Having said all that, I do hope a solid and fair trade is made, like now. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by I-90 W

[PromoTheRobot]

51 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Wow, are we really going to get another ROR trade when Adams dumps him for pennies on the dollar tomorrow night after all the serious suitors move on?

If every offer has been underwhelming, who were the serious suitors?

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Could be a long summer 

lolll

Weather-wise summer never got going.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Would it not be ok to judge the Eichel return based on the most comparable past instances of deals league wide? Calling 

I think past trades help inform expectations, but every situation is unique. YOU may decide his neck doesn't matter. But it is the other GMs that count. We have a flat cap year. Circumstances change.

Not a year goes by where people don't think about the first given for Paul Gausted. I never expect that to be repeated. Others are apocalyptic when it doesn't happen (see Taylor Hall).

[Cascade Youth]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

I think past trades help inform expectations, but every situation is unique. YOU may decide his neck doesn't matter. But it is the other GMs that count. We have a flat cap year. Circumstances change.

Not a year goes by where people don't think about the first given for Paul Gausted. I never expect that to be repeated. Others are apocalyptic when it doesn't happen (see Taylor Hall).

They don't have to trade him.  They don't have to trade him.  They don't have to trade him.

They DO NOT have to trade their best player.

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, SDS said:

It's no secret that I don't care for straw man arguments. I don't like making up a scenario and then criticizing someone for not taking action on my personal hockey fantasies. I think trades are much more about the buyer than the seller. People know he is on the block and they know the ask. There isn't much Adams needs to do after that.

You're right - we aren't in the room. It's all fantasy without all of the variables filled in. There's really no reason for sharing analysis then if the goal is to avoid the Straw Man, as unknown variables must be assumed or calculated (without all of the info) for the purposes of making any argument, really. 

It'll limit discussion, but the "Adams must have had a reason for what he did" argument is rather infallible, in all honesty 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Thorny

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

If Adams can’t get a good haul he should just hold off. The culture will continue to be bad (possibly) and things might get ugly next season but we have to maximize our return. KA isn’t going to trade him just to trade him, his job could be riding on how this goes. Maybe not immediately, but two-three years from now it would be the first thing that would be brought up.

Having said all that, I do hope a solid and fair trade is made, like now. 

The culture thing gets bantered about quite a bit. We have yet to see how Granato works with Jack. If Jack doesn’t get moved we can hope that Granato can reach him.  It’s very possible he can. 
 

 

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Cascade Youth said:

They don't have to trade him.  They don't have to trade him.  They don't have to trade him.

They DO NOT have to trade their best player.

From our stand point, they don't. We also don't know what they know. Lehner was garbage until we found out what we didn't know. I'm open to the idea that others have more information than I do.

 

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

If every offer has been underwhelming, who were the serious suitors?

Weather-wise summer never got going.

Speak for your town!

Just now, SDS said:

From our stand point, they don't. We also don't know what they know. Lehner was garbage until we found out what we didn't know. I'm open to the idea that others have more information than I do.

 

An inarguable stance, exactly ^

[I-90 W]

Just now, Pimlach said:

The culture thing gets bantered about quite a bit. We have yet to see how Granato works with Jack. If Jack doesn’t get moved we can hope that Granato can reach him.  It’s very possible he can. 
 

 

It’s possible but I really think things are beyond that at this point. My guess is that Jack will just do his thing and then get traded at the deadline. I can’t see him “buying in” at this point, and that is not DG fault. Just think it’s beyond that at this point. 

[Cascade Youth]

Just now, SDS said:

From our stand point, they don't. We also don't know what they know. Lehner was garbage until we found out what we didn't know. I'm open to the idea that others have more information than I do.

 

It just becomes tautological when you put it that way.  The Sabres have been bad for over a decade not because of any choices they made but because their hands were tied, they took the only path they could given their option set.  That just CANNOT be right.

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

You're right - we aren't in the room. It's all fantasy without all of the variables filled in. There's really no reason for sharing analysis then if the goal is to avoid the Straw Man, as unknown variables must be assumed or calculated (without all of the info) for the purposes of making any argument, really. 

It'll limit discussion, but the "Adams must have had a reason for what he did" argument is rather infallible, in all honesty 

I tend not to get upset at the state of team or about various transactions. I also rarely provide scenarios. It's not my thing. 

I also think, as I mentioned it before, that a trade can fail to meet expectations without someone being incompetent or that they need to be fired.

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

It just becomes tautological when you put it that way.  The Sabres have been bad for over a decade not because of any choices they made but because their hands were tied, they took the only path they could given their option set.  That just CANNOT be right.

I wouldn't agree with what you said either.

We have the option to trade Jack (for whatever best offer is given) or not. What we DON'T have, and that many argumentative fans insist, is that Jack has to be traded and we "could have had" players x/y/z and picks a/b/c because someone says so in their own mind. And because they say so in their own mind, someone else is therefore incompetent. 

I don't do the latter. 

[pi2000]

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

[Cascade Youth]

Just now, SDS said:

I wouldn't agree with what you said either.

We have the option to trade Jack (for whatever best offer is given) or not. What we DON'T have, and that many argumentative fans insist, is that Jack has to be traded and we "could have had" players x/y/z and picks a/b/c because someone says so in their own mind. And because they say so in their own mind, someone else is therefore incompetent. 

I don't do the latter. 

That I agree with.  And I'm biased - I prefer to keep him.  He has generational talent and no one could seriously assert that he's been set up for success by the various coaches and GMs we've seen paraded through here.  A good manager should be able to build around talent and help them find their best self on and off the ice.  If Adams is too insecure to do that, he's the problem, not Jack.  If you can't get a franchise-altering haul for Jack, keep him.