sweetlou Posted May 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 On 4/27/2021 at 1:22 AM, dudacek said: The only way I can see this work is if we can trade Risto for a good forward from a team that has too many forwards and a big hole on defence. Maybe there's a team like that out there. Otherwise when you say trade Risto, you mean not for anyone as good as him or Borgen, at least not currently? If you are trading him it's for futures — assets you don't have to protect. Also, if you are trading him, you are trading him to a team that is going to protect him, right? Otherwise why would they make the trade? Vancouver is the perfect team that only has 2 NHL defenseman to worry about protecting in Myers and Schmidt. They would protect forwards...Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, and then probably Virtanen and Motte. Their biggest issue is having two goalies in Holtby and Demko leaving one of them unprotected. They will protect Demko and expose Holtby. Holtby would be a perfection year stop gap to back up Ullmark while UPL gets a full year with Amerks. I think the perfect move for both teams would be Risto for Virtanen and Holtby. you could add picks on either side to balance it out if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 1 hour ago, sweetlou said: Vancouver is the perfect team that only has 2 NHL defenseman to worry about protecting in Myers and Schmidt. They would protect forwards...Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, and then probably Virtanen and Motte. Their biggest issue is having two goalies in Holtby and Demko leaving one of them unprotected. They will protect Demko and expose Holtby. Holtby would be a perfection year stop gap to back up Ullmark while UPL gets a full year with Amerks. I think the perfect move for both teams would be Risto for Virtanen and Holtby. you could add picks on either side to balance it out if needed. I would much rather just lose Risto in the expansion draft than take Virtanen and Holtby. Virtanen is toxic at this point and Holtby's numbers are not great. Maybe I would do Holtby and a 2nd rd pick for Risto. This would assume we are re-signing and protecting Ullmark before the draft. Holtby as the veteran back-up bridge to Luukkonen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 3 hours ago, sweetlou said: Vancouver is the perfect team that only has 2 NHL defenseman to worry about protecting in Myers and Schmidt. They would protect forwards...Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, and then probably Virtanen and Motte. Their biggest issue is having two goalies in Holtby and Demko leaving one of them unprotected. They will protect Demko and expose Holtby. Holtby would be a perfection year stop gap to back up Ullmark while UPL gets a full year with Amerks. I think the perfect move for both teams would be Risto for Virtanen and Holtby. you could add picks on either side to balance it out if needed. I would not trade a hockey puck for Virtanen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Archie Lee said: I would much rather just lose Risto in the expansion draft than take Virtanen and Holtby. Virtanen is toxic at this point and Holtby's numbers are not great. Maybe I would do Holtby and a 2nd rd pick for Risto. This would assume we are re-signing and protecting Ullmark before the draft. Holtby as the veteran back-up bridge to Luukkonen. Agreed on the bolding. Definitely no to Virtanen. And Holtby is done as well... it'd be like acquiring Hutton at twice the cost. Let Vancouver continue to make these poor deals (Myers, Roussel, Beagle). We have enough troubling contracts of our own without taking on more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) Yea... no to Virtanen. Big no. No no no no no no. Edited May 1, 2021 by LGR4GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 7 hours ago, sweetlou said: Vancouver is the perfect team that only has 2 NHL defenseman to worry about protecting in Myers and Schmidt. They would protect forwards...Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, and then probably Virtanen and Motte. Their biggest issue is having two goalies in Holtby and Demko leaving one of them unprotected. They will protect Demko and expose Holtby. Holtby would be a perfection year stop gap to back up Ullmark while UPL gets a full year with Amerks. I think the perfect move for both teams would be Risto for Virtanen and Holtby. you could add picks on either side to balance it out if needed. I was just thinking the same thing. Move Risto to a team that can protect him. NYR are in a similar situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 59 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: I was just thinking the same thing. Move Risto to a team that can protect him. NYR are in a similar situation Columbus and Winnipeg, teams that have shown interest in the past may want to do this as well. Copp or Appleton would be Middle Six Forwards for the Sabres. A goalie from Columbus would help as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 4, 2021 Report Share Posted May 4, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 20 hours ago, Hoss said: Would be awesome if Skinner did the same. Francis knows him enough that he may be opposed to take him at any cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 31 minutes ago, French Collection said: Would be awesome if Skinner did the same. Francis knows him enough that he may be opposed to take him at any cost. Not even sure that Skinner's mom would take him at a $9MM cap hit for 6 more years. There's no way Francis would take him if available. That should be a conversation Adams has with Jeff. Would allow the Sabres to keep all of Asplund, Bjork, & Thompson should they want. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakish Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Taro T said: Not even sure that Skinner's mom would take him at a $9MM cap hit for 6 more years. There's no way Francis would take him if available. That should be a conversation Adams has with Jeff. Would allow the Sabres to keep all of Asplund, Bjork, & Thompson should they want. Maybe they should have played him more on the first line? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, rakish said: Maybe they should have played him more on the first line? It was always strikingly weird that they stapled him to the Franchise C's hip during a contract year, and proceeded to immediately remove him from said spot after letting him earn his 9 mil. Say what you want about Skinner, the team totally botched the situation and it wasn't just about overpaying. They mangled the situation both before and after. And Botterill *hired* the coach that switched up the Skinner game plan. I can't believe they didn't have a usage conversation where Skinner is concerned BEFORE Bottterill inked him, especially at the time where "communication, blah blah blah" was the "mantra". Have the conversation with Krueger about Skinner, before hiring him as coach, I mean Edited May 5, 2021 by Thorny 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, rakish said: Maybe they should have played him more on the first line? Well, out of 4+ coaches that have deployed Skinner, not a single 1 DIDN'T bump him off the top line. Even Housley bumped him off the top line to get a look at Olofsson there but he did bump him back up at the end of the year to let him get to 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakish Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, Taro T said: Well, out of 4+ coaches that have deployed Skinner, not a single 1 DIDN'T bump him off the top line. Even Housley bumped him off the top line to get a look at Olofsson there but he did bump him back up at the end of the year to let him get to 40. I'm not saying the 4 coaches are wrong, I'm saying Skinner almost certainly believes the 4 coaches are wrong. It's not me or you making the decision to waive, it's the guy that got bumped off the first line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Taro T said: Well, out of 4+ coaches that have deployed Skinner, not a single 1 DIDN'T bump him off the top line. Even Housley bumped him off the top line to get a look at Olofsson there but he did bump him back up at the end of the year to let him get to 40. I don't believe he spent much time on the 1st line in Carolina either. Didn't stop him from scoring goals there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Just now, dudacek said: I don't believe he spent much time on the 1st line in Carolina either. Didn't stop him from scoring goals there. That's where the 4th (& any additional coaches beyond that) comes from. (Don't care enough to look up how many coaches he played under there.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Taro T said: That's where the 4th (& any additional coaches beyond that) comes from. (Don't care enough to look up how many coaches he played under there.) How many 4th line minutes in Carolina? Also we aren't going to ret-con things and tout the idea that *even Housley demoted Skinner!", are we? He played with Jack almost the entire year. Players get moved off lines sometimes, they very rarely literally never get shifted around at all. And as you said, he returned to the line. Edited May 5, 2021 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rakish said: I'm not saying the 4 coaches are wrong, I'm saying Skinner almost certainly believes the 4 coaches are wrong. It's not me or you making the decision to waive, it's the guy that got bumped off the first line But he has to realize that Ron Francis isn't going to take him and the team he is wedded to for the next 6 seasons will (might) be better in the 1st of those seasons by him temporarily waiving his NMC to allow the Sabres to protect an additional forward that Seattle MIGHT want to take. It's his prerogative to be petulant if he wants. But he should want to play on as good a team as possible now that he knows he's getting paid to be an NHLer for at least 6 more years. Temporarily waiving the clause helps that cause. Edited May 5, 2021 by Taro T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Thorny said: How many 4th line minutes in Carolina? Don't know. Don't care. (Also don't know nor care if he was ever a healthy scratch there, but doubt he was.) We're talking 1st line here and none of his NHL coaches kept him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Taro T said: Don't know. Don't care. (Also don't know nor care if he was ever a healthy scratch there, but doubt he was.) We're talking 1st line here and none of his NHL coaches kept him there. We know for a fact Skinner was viewed, and played, as our first line LW his first year here. Getting shifted briefly is irrelevant. Almost every winger gets shifted around at some point, lumping that in with the other coaching decisions is really misleading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Thorny said: How many 4th line minutes in Carolina? Also we aren't going to ret-con things and tout the idea that *even Housley demoted Skinner!", are we? He played with Jack almost the entire year. Players get moved off lines sometimes, they very rarely literally never get shifted around at all. And as you said, he returned to the line. There was a pretty big chunk (15-20 games?) in and around February of his first year here where they were apart. That also coincided with his scoring slump, so it supports your "but he's good with Jack" argument. Also, to your first question, looks to me like none: there were less than 10 games in his last year in Carolina where Jeff got under 15 minutes, and at least 30 he had more than 17. Edited May 5, 2021 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) I do know that Skinner's production dropped off that year in a real way right at the time he rolled his ankle, and that's when he got shifted, as well. Could be a factor Oh ya. 4 goals after his "miraculous return". 36 before. https://subscribe.buffalonews.com/e/limit-reached-bn?returnURL=https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/sabres-jeff-skinner-returns-after-injury-scare-against-capitals/article_da70ddfb-1448-5488-9f4f-c59e2406bba3.html Edit - if one can't read the link, injury scare was Feb 23 Edited May 5, 2021 by Thorny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Taro T said: Not even sure that Skinner's mom would take him at a $9MM cap hit for 6 more years. There's no way Francis would take him if available. Just close your eyes, click your heels 3 times, and repeat... I'm hoping there is a compliance buyout I'm hoping there is a compliance buyout I'm hoping there is a compliance buyout ... ... ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 2 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Just close your eyes, click your heels 3 times, and repeat... I'm hoping there is a compliance buyout I'm hoping there is a compliance buyout I'm hoping there is a compliance buyout ... ... ... And they use it on Okposo because KA figures Skinner will return to 30 goal form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted May 5, 2021 Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Thorny said: I do know that Skinner's production dropped off that year in a real way right at the time he rolled his ankle, and that's when he got shifted, as well. Could be a factor Oh ya. 4 goals after his "miraculous return". 36 before. https://subscribe.buffalonews.com/e/limit-reached-bn?returnURL=https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/sabres-jeff-skinner-returns-after-injury-scare-against-capitals/article_da70ddfb-1448-5488-9f4f-c59e2406bba3.html Edit - if one can't read the link, injury scare was Feb 23 He has literally been a different player since then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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