Thorner Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said: Precisely. Either move him now (maybe too close to the freeze for max value), move him on entry draft day, or move him at the trade deadline. The only other future is we make the playoffs and skate him into the ground as he becomes a UFA. And then watch somebody madly throw $7M x 7 years at him. Right now the buyouts, the trades... I don't want us to be the only team left standing when the music stops and we still have no goalie of value to protect and lose Borgen for nothing. Risto can't be here if KA's "guys who want to be here" schtick is true, in my personal estimation. I'm certainly calling "BS" on the statements if we trade Jack and Sam and keep Risto. It's beyond talent analysis at this point. If they adjudge him to be worthy of keeping, fine - then just shut up about the "core values" or whatever.
PerreaultForever Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 5 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Ristolainen will not be a Sabre in 1 year regardless of what we do. Likely true, but I still think his best trade value will be before the playoff deadline.
DarthEbriate Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said: Likely true, but I still think his best trade value will be before the playoff deadline. The danger is how much cap space will be available on playoff contender at that point. We'll only be able to retain half the salary. (And will we be out of it and selling, as we've been conditioned to be for the last decade, or on the cusp and buyers?)
LabattBlue Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 Not sure why people are crapping all over Borgen. He brings a physical element to the blueline(which is needed...especially if Risto is gone), looks like an okay skater...a decent 2nd pair/3rd pair tweener. ...and don't tell me his skill set is easily found. If so, why do the Sabres have so little toughness on the blueline. 2 2
dudacek Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: Not sure why people are crapping all over Borgen. He brings a physical element to the blueline(which is needed...especially if Risto is gone), looks like an okay skater...a decent 2nd pair/3rd pair tweener. ...and don't tell me his skill set is easily found. If so, why do the Sabres have so little toughness on the blueline. Who is crapping all over Borgen? Unless you think suggesting he be exposed instead of Risto is crapping all over him. He’s a good skating defencemen with a tough attitude and game who projects somewhere between an NHL 4/5 and a good AHLer. I am sure there are players who had played just 14 NHL games by the time they were 24 and still went on to become top 4 D. I am also sure there aren’t many of them. 1
LabattBlue Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, dudacek said: Who is crapping all over Borgen? Unless you think suggesting he be exposed instead of Risto is crapping all over him. He’s a good skating defencemen with a tough attitude and game who projects somewhere between an NHL 4/5 and a good AHLer. I am sure there are players who had played just 14 NHL games by the time they were 24 and still went on to become top 4 D. I am also sure there aren’t many of them. Go back to Page 15.
dudacek Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 27 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: Go back to Page 15. This? On 7/14/2021 at 10:47 AM, pi2000 said: Borgen is overrated On 7/14/2021 at 11:12 AM, darksabre said: I agree. At this point maybe he projects to Mark Pysyk, which isn't bad. But it's still so early. Hardly crapping, in my opinion.
LabattBlue Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 2 hours ago, dudacek said: This? Hardly crapping, in my opinion. Then how about useless or easily replaceable? Maybe crapping was a poor choice of words, but there are posters who don’t seem to care if he stays or goes.
Thwomp! Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, LabattBlue said: Then how about useless or easily replaceable? Maybe crapping was a poor choice of words, but there are posters who don’t seem to care if he stays or goes. Borgen is the toughest player on this team. He'll fight, He'll hit, and He'll stand up for his teammates. He's young and cheap. If we're OK with just giving that away, then fine. I'm betting we'll regret it. Brayden McNabb is having a pretty good career. 3
pi2000 Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 If I'm SEA I'd grab Zemgus instead of Wristo. jBots knows. 2
Thwomp! Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 Just now, pi2000 said: If I'm SEA I'd grab Zemgus instead of Wristo. jBots knows. Thought they were protecting wristo? Haha I'd love it if they took Zemgus. I don't see it though. 1
Thwomp! Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 Sorry pi, there no way they take zemgus. He's got what, 2 more years at 2.2 per? And coming off a major injury. Plus you can get Zemgii on the open market regularly for 1 to 1.5 for a year. 1
pi2000 Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 22 minutes ago, Thwomp! said: Sorry pi, there no way they take zemgus. He's got what, 2 more years at 2.2 per? And coming off a major injury. Plus you can get Zemgii on the open market regularly for 1 to 1.5 for a year. Z > wristo
PerreaultForever Posted July 16, 2021 Report Posted July 16, 2021 5 hours ago, DarthEbriate said: The danger is how much cap space will be available on playoff contender at that point. We'll only be able to retain half the salary. (And will we be out of it and selling, as we've been conditioned to be for the last decade, or on the cusp and buyers?) I personally don't believe we should be buyers if on the cusp. I'd still sell even if we were close. You go with the kids. We make it great, we don't we move on. Otherwise I get your point about salary, but he'd be desirable at trade time if I was running a true contender.
GASabresIUFAN Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 I can't believe all the worry about losing Borgen. First, I think Seattle is taking Miller to run their initial PP. Second, Borgen is 24 with 14 NHL games and zero points. He is at best a 3rd pairing guy and he is easily replaced. If they take him so what. 2 1
Eleven Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 19 hours ago, pi2000 said: Z > wristo It already was obvious that you're on a crusade; you didn't have to add this.
nfreeman Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I can't believe all the worry about losing Borgen. First, I think Seattle is taking Miller to run their initial PP. Second, Borgen is 24 with 14 NHL games and zero points. He is at best a 3rd pairing guy and he is easily replaced. If they take him so what. He’s an asset that has a reasonable chance of becoming a solid contributor. Good organizations don’t squander assets of this caliber.
dudacek Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 1 minute ago, nfreeman said: He’s an asset that has a reasonable chance of becoming a solid contributor. Good organizations don’t squander assets of this caliber. I suspect that at least 2/3rds of the teams in the league will be losing better assets than Borgen in the expansion draft. 1
LabattBlue Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I can't believe all the worry about losing Borgen. First, I think Seattle is taking Miller to run their initial PP. Second, Borgen is 24 with 14 NHL games and zero points. He is at best a 3rd pairing guy and he is easily replaced. If they take him so what. You mean replaced with guys like Matt Irwin and Brandon Davidson? Maybe just maybe...he is not as easily replaced as you think. 1 1
dudacek Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: You mean replaced with guys like Matt Irwin and Brandon Davidson? Maybe just maybe...he is not as easily replaced as you think. What if Will Borgen is a 24-year-old Matt Irwin? Irwin’s resume at 24 was pretty similar.
nfreeman Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, dudacek said: I suspect that at least 2/3rds of the teams in the league will be losing better assets than Borgen in the expansion draft. Possibly. Certainly Driedger is a better asset. I’d guess that most of the guys taken though will be in the same approximate neighborhood of asset quality/current market value as Borgen, with similar uncertainty and a wide range of outcomes. I think at that point it comes down to being right about as to a guy’s potential and likelihood of his reaching it. I like what I’ve seen from Borgen so far and think he could be a McCabe-like legit 2nd pair guy who is tough and steady in his D zone, sticks up for his teammates, makes the other team pay a price and has a long NHL career. If I’m right about him, then that’s a better asset than 2/3 of the guys who are going to be taken by Seattle. 2
dudacek Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Possibly. Certainly Driedger is a better asset. I’d guess that most of the guys taken though will be in the same approximate neighborhood of asset quality/current market value as Borgen, with similar uncertainty and a wide range of outcomes. I think at that point it comes down to being right about as to a guy’s potential and likelihood of his reaching it. I like what I’ve seen from Borgen so far and think he could be a McCabe-like legit 2nd pair guy who is tough and steady in his D zone, sticks up for his teammates, makes the other team pay a price and has a long NHL career. If I’m right about him, then that’s a better asset than 2/3 of the guys who are going to be taken by Seattle. The bold is absolutely fair, and, like I have said in the past, I like Borgen. That said, the most likely outcome is that he’s another Will Carrier - a useful player. I just think posters are guilty of forgetting that the expansion draft is designed to give the Kraken useful players. You only get to protect 10. It’s not 1992 any more. 1
Trettioåtta Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 Urgh McCann to Tor. We could have used him
Curt Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, nfreeman said: He’s an asset that has a reasonable chance of becoming a solid contributor. Good organizations don’t squander assets of this caliber. Squander is a strange word to use. Every team is losing (squandering?) someone.
nfreeman Posted July 17, 2021 Report Posted July 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, dudacek said: The bold is absolutely fair, and, like I have said in the past, I like Borgen. That said, the most likely outcome is that he’s another Will Carrier - a useful player. I just think posters are guilty of forgetting that the expansion draft is designed to give the Kraken useful players. You only get to protect 10. It’s not 1992 any more. Also fair and there are probably a bunch of GMs who would come to the same conclusion in wargaming this out. I wouldn’t fret about losing Borgen though if I knew he would end up being a Carrier-level player. I do fret about mismanaging our way into losing a McKee-level or McCabe-level player, which I believe is a significant step up in asset quality from Carrier-level. 1
Recommended Posts