Seattle Expansion Protection List

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I wouldn’t say Risto has “significant” trade value but I’d still protect him over Borgen even though Borgen is a RHD. I’d like to trade Risto before the expansion draft anyways.

I suspect Risto will be worth a heckuva lot more at the trade deadline when team’s are looking for his type at minimum cap hit than he would be before the ED when teams would be required to leave their current 3D unprotected in favour of a pending UFA.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Im not ignoring the contract issue at all. IMO, it’s the strongest element of the pro-Borgen argument.

My point is asset management: think of Risto as a $50 chip you can cash in at the deadline. If Borgen is a $50 chip too, keeping him makes sense. But he’s not right now. And he can probably be replaced in the lineup for no assets and $1 million by this year’s UFA version of Luke Schenn or Derek Forbert. But people think he’s more. Thus the concept of Borgen.

I think of it like this.  Risto is a $50 chip you can cash in at the the deadline.  Borgen is a ticket to receive a $25 chip every year for 4 years.

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think of it like this.  Risto is a $50 chip you can cash in at the the deadline.  Borgen is a ticket to receive a $25 chip every year for 4 years.

But you can get other $25 chips practically for free.

[klos1963]

26 minutes ago, Curt said:

Some of them were asked, and responded that they were excited about being part of this group and building something going forward.

Other guys were asked and said: I’m fine with whatever happens, or wherever I am next year, or I’m here for now.

If they are mentally checked out with one foot out the door, it doesn’t really matter the reason, they aren’t going to be all in.

I'm guessing those players have no choice but to be here. Like I said, a player like Cozens is under contract and will be under team control for some time now.

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

But you can get other $25 chips practically for free.

I guess it depends on if you think Borgen can be a $25 chip, or if he is a $5 chip they give you for free when you bring a guest.

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I'm guessing those players have no choice but to be here. Like I said, a player like Cozens is under contract and will be under team control for some time now.

Yeah, I understand.  Cozens can’t leave and because of that he is probably devoting his full energy to making things work in Buffalo.

What’s your point?  Risto isn’t under control for a long time and seems like he has one foot out the door.

[dudacek]

Just now, Curt said:

I guess it depends on if you think Borgen can be a $25 chip, or if he is a $5 chip they give you for free when you bring a guest.

And I think that nails the crux of our disagreement. I say Borgen as a $25 chip = concept of Borgen. Borgen as a $5 chip  better represents his true value right now around the league.

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Yeah, I understand.  Cozens can’t leave and because of that he is probably devoting his full energy to making things work in Buffalo.

What’s your point?  Risto isn’t under control for a long time and seems like he has one foot out the door.

My point is Adams approach is BS. He's setting us up for when he trades our best players and we suck again. "They didn't want to be here", his job now is to make this a place to want to play. What quality FA will want to sign with Buffalo if we trade Eichel, Sam and Risto... and Ulmark leaves. It's crazy.

Risto has been a good soldier, giving 100% all the time. I'm sure he's tired of being in Buffalo, but he's been a loyal , team player.

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

My point is Adams approach is BS. He's setting us up for when he trades our best players and we suck again. "They didn't want to be here", his job now is to make this a place to want to play. What quality FA will want to sign with Buffalo if we trade Eichel, Sam and Risto... and Ulmark leaves. It's crazy.

Risto has been a good soldier, giving 100% all the time. I'm sure he's tired of being in Buffalo, but he's been a loyal , team player.

Risto is going to walk in a year.  Reinhart is going to walk in a year.  Even if the Sabres improve to be ok next season and maybe sneak into the playoffs (big IF).  They are going to UFA.  This is what I believe.

[klos1963]

Just now, Curt said:

Risto is going to walk in a year.  Reinhart is going to walk in a year.  Even if the Sabres improve to be ok next season and maybe sneak into the playoffs (big IF).  They are going to UFA.  This is what I believe.

I agree. It does make sense to trade them now, but it's a mess and won't get better because of the trades. 

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I agree. It does make sense to trade them now, but it's a mess and won't get better because of the trades. 

You agree that it makes sense to trade them, but Adams approach of doing so is BS?  What exactly are you disagreeing with here?

I understand being frustrated with the state of the team, we are where we are, and they need to make the best decisions they can moving forward.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Curt

[klos1963]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

You agree that it makes sense to trade them, but Adams approach of doing so is BS?  What exactly are you disagreeing with here?

I understand being frustrated with the state of the team, we are where we are, and they need to make the best decisions they can moving forward.

It's makes sense as things stand now, it's been royally f'd up. Let me state that i don't think it will help the team, but it's inevitable because it's a piss poor organization. I don't agree that we should trade Eichel.

[Hoss]

22 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I agree. It does make sense to trade them now, but it's a mess and won't get better because of the trades. 

It could. Unlikely but it could.

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Im not ignoring the contract issue at all. IMO, it’s the strongest element of the pro-Borgen argument.

My point is asset management: think of Risto as a $50 chip you can cash in at the deadline. If Borgen is a $50 chip too, keeping him makes sense. But he’s not right now. And he can probably be replaced in the lineup for no assets and $1 million by this year’s UFA version of Luke Schenn or Derek Forbert. But people think he’s worth more. Thus the concept of Borgen.

Why are you assuming we will be sellers at the trade dead line? 

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Why are you assuming we will be sellers at the trade dead line? 

At this moment: Boston, Tampa, Toronto, Florida, Montreal, and Ottawa. Unknown goalie situation. Eichel ongoing injury.

[Hoss]

5 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Why are you assuming we will be sellers at the trade dead line? 

🧐 

[ubkev]

5 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Why are you assuming we will be sellers at the trade dead line? 

Because we'll be in last place?

[bob_sauve28]

43 minutes ago, ubkev said:

Because we'll be in last place?

No. No way 

46 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

At this moment: Boston, Tampa, Toronto, Florida, Montreal, and Ottawa. Unknown goalie situation. Eichel ongoing injury.

Well, they better fix the goaltending. If Eichel is still broken, ya, that will be a problem, but the goal scoring should be there next year. 

[ubkev]

14 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

No. No way 

Well, they better fix the goaltending. If Eichel is still broken, ya, that will be a problem, but the goal scoring should be there next year. 

The goal scoring should have been there this year.

[Marvin]

I re-iterate:

1. Most efencemen at Ristolainen's contract price whom other fans think their team will expose are better players;

2. Most defencemen at Ristolainen's level of play whom other fans think their team will expose are on cheaper contracts.

In bang-for-the-buck for Seattle, Ristolainen is someone they should avoid.  It would be silly for the Kraken to pick Ristolainen; ergo it is silly to protect him.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Why are you assuming we will be sellers at the trade dead line? 

Why are you assuming we won't be?

18 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I re-iterate:

1. Most efencemen at Ristolainen's contract price whom other fans think their team will expose are better players;

2. Most defencemen at Ristolainen's level of play whom other fans think their team will expose are on cheaper contracts.

In bang-for-the-buck for Seattle, Ristolainen is someone they should avoid.  It would be silly for the Kraken to pick Ristolainen; ergo it is silly to protect him.

 

The Kraken have to draft about $50 million in cap space, and they will be spending close the cap when all is said and done. They will be taking on some big contracts

The Kraken have to draft at least nine defencemen. I would be very surprised if 9 better blueliners than Risto will be made available.

The Kraken will be attracted to veterans on expiring contracts that they can flip at the deadline for draft picks. How many players will be made available in the expansion draft that will be worth the 2nd-round pick at the deadline that Risto would likely fetch?

I know there is a portion of Sabrespacers who would give Risto away for nothing, but I would be shocked if that's his value around the league.

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Why are you assuming we won't be?

I don’t having a losing mentality, I guess 

[DarthEbriate]

24 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I don’t having a losing mentality, I guess 

And that's an excellent mindset. I really hope we aren't sellers at the deadline, that the kids all grow up and take off. Then, we're able to negotiate in-season and Reinhart signs a team-friendly 2x$5M to be a part of the solution as a top-6 Swiss Army Knife and set himself up again for when the cap goes up, and that Ristolainen is cool with a 2nd-pairing $4M salary. But... I can't fathom why they'd do that with this organization and management. But if those are my wild Padme-dying-in-childbirth-future-fever-dreams... then by golly, I'd better have a contingency plan as a seller because that seems much more likely.

[DarthEbriate]

We’re a month from the expansion draft so I want to make sure I've got things in order. Everything changes if any of Eichel, Ristolainen, or Reinhart are moved, but there’s a good chance that GMs are happy where they’re at for expansion (because they’ve been planning for it for years) and therefore will wait until between the expansion draft and rookie draft to make any blockbuster trades with the Sabres. Here are my protections:

F: Skinner, Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Asplund, Thompson

BjorkBjorkBjork is the odd one out for me. Sure, he kills penalties and hustles, but he lacks Asplund’s hands and doesn’t have Thompson’s ceiling (height jokes!). However, any of Asplund, Thompson, or Bjork is a sweetener to get a top-end prospect in a deal. My guess is GM Sheevyn protects Bjork because he was acquired in the Hall trade.

D -  Dahlin, Jokiharju, Ristolainen

I like Borgen, but right now Risto has greater trade value. My counterargument is Seattle doesn't like Risto's metrics or salary and JBott knows exactly what other teams were offering for Risto and he'll never garner anything more than a single 2nd at the deadline.

G: I offer Ullmark 3x$5M this month to get him and us through the flat cap seasons. Then I hunt for a 2-year backup. However, if Linus wants to go UFA, more power to him, and I protect the Toker.

Incentives:

10 draft picks is a bunch. So I offer Seattle the 2021 MTL 5th (from Staal trade) to pick C Cody Eakin or the 2021 COL 6th (from JJ trade) to pick D Colin Miller. Either pick gives JBott the chance to tell his new master about his latest William Worge-Kreu.

I also check with Seattle on anyone JBott really loves in our system and might want to acquire. Think XGMTM going back for some Ottawa folks (Lehner). Maybe we can do a little dance with the Kraken. For example, Laaksonen for the 2nd overall pick….

Edited June 22, 2021 by DarthEbriate

[PromoTheRobot]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/blackhawks/2021/7/3/22556646/blackhawks-nhl-mock-expansion-draft-seattle-kraken-malcolm-subban-matt-dumba-yanni-gourde

 

Not a lot of thought put into the Sabres pick IMO.

Edited July 4, 2021 by PromoTheRobot