Seattle Expansion Protection List

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

So would Bryson not be eligible for the draft? 

Bryson is not exempt and as of right now is not likely to be protected either, of course he is eligible..  Jokiharju, Dahlin and Risto will all be protected first.  My list was of the Sabres player available to be drafted.

Edited June 6, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Curt]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Bryson is not exempt and as of right now is not likely to be protected either, of course he is eligible..  Jokiharju, Dahlin and Risto will all be protected first.  My list was of the Sabres player available to be drafted.

Bryson is exempt.  He is not eligible for the expansion draft because anyone with less than 3 seasons of pro experience is exempt.  Bryson has played only 2 pro seasons.

@bob_sauve28

Edited June 6, 2021 by Curt

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Curt said:

Bryson is exempt.  He is not eligible for the expansion draft because anyone with less than 3 seasons of pro experience is exempt.  Bryson has played only 2 pro seasons.

I meant Borgen

[bob_sauve28]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I meant Borgen

I’d protect Borgen over Risto simply because Risto has only a year left while Borgen will be with us at least a few more years. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I’d protect Borgen over Risto simply because Risto has only a year left while Borgen will be with us at least a few more years. 

No,  not ever.  Borgen has 14 games of NHL experience at 24.  Risto has significant trade value and we have a pile of other young D. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I’d protect Borgen over Risto simply because Risto has only a year left while Borgen will be with us at least a few more years. 

Risto has a lot more trade value than Borgen. If I had to make a choice I would protect Risto over Borgen. 

[bob_sauve28]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

No,  not ever.  Borgen has 14 games of NHL experience at 24.  Risto has significant trade value and we have a pile of other young D. 

Well, I don’t think you ever have enough young D in the system. So if you let Borgen. Go and Risto then leaves, we have lost two defenseman, no thanks 

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Risto has a lot more trade value than Borgen. If I had to make a choice I would protect Risto over Borgen. 

What? Another second round pick? 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Well, I don’t think you ever have enough young D in the system. So if you let Borgen. Go and Risto then leaves, we have lost two defenseman, no thanks 

What? Another second round pick? 

You are devaluing Risto. He should bring back a second or at worst third line player who will be getting a lot of ice time. Selling assets short has stymied this franchise. That's not a smart way to run a business. 

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are devaluing Risto. He should bring back a second or at worst third line player who will be getting a lot of ice time. Selling assets short has stymied this franchise. That's not a smart way to run a business. 

He’s on the last year of his contract. And just letting Borgen be plucked away by another team is devaluing him going forward. They might not even take Risto because he is in last year of contract. So you might keep both players. But Borgen will probably be gone, or at least more likely to be taken, IMO. 

 

Nothing against Risto, I like him a lot. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

He’s on the last year of his contract. And just letting Borgen be plucked away by another team is devaluing him going forward. They might not even take Risto because he is in last year of contract. So you might keep both players. But Borgen will probably be gone, or at least more likely to be taken, IMO. 

 

Nothing against Risto, I like him a lot. 

What do you think Borgen is worth? A 4th? He is a 24 D with 14 games of experience and he couldn’t beat out guys on our terrible team in prior years.

Who is he beating out longterm here? 3 young D are already here in Joki, Dahlin and Bryson. Samuelsson also looks nearly ready.  

If Risto is traded this off-season then Borgen will likely be protected.  

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

He’s on the last year of his contract. And just letting Borgen be plucked away by another team is devaluing him going forward. They might not even take Risto because he is in last year of contract. So you might keep both players. But Borgen will probably be gone, or at least more likely to be taken, IMO. 

 

Nothing against Risto, I like him a lot. 

I'm not knocking Borgen as a player but if he is taken in the expansion draft his loss would easily be absorbed.  

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What do you think Borgen is worth? A 4th? He is a 24 D with 14 games of experience and he couldn’t beat out guys on our terrible team in prior years.

Who is he beating out longterm here? 3 young D are already here in Joki, Dahlin and Bryson. Samuelsson also looks nearly ready.  

If Risto is traded this off-season then Borgen will likely be protected.  

In fairness to Borgen, he couldn't beat out washed up vets in the eyes of the coach you've described as the Sabres worst of all time nor could he beat them out when younger while being evaluated by a guy that definitely is in the 3 worst Sabres coaches of all time.

Agree that Ristolainen will be the 3rd protected D-man barring a trade.  But there are extenuating circumstances with Borgen's career trajectory and his being 24 and a rookie isn't an indictment of what he'll be.

(And will once again lament the expansion draft getting delayed as the Sabres wouldn't even have lost a Borgen nor Bjork quality player to that draft had it been held when it was supposed to be held.)

 

[Carmel Corn]

21 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm not knocking Borgen as a player but if he is taken in the expansion draft his loss would easily be absorbed.  

This organization has slowly developed him to be a future contributor, which I think is now.  I would rather offer a low pick (ex. 6th to protect Linus) to keep Borgen and reap the benefits of years of development.  We don't have much in the pipeline who plays the way he does and we would give up much more to trade for it.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

This organization has slowly developed him to be a future contributor, which I think is now.  I would rather offer a low pick (ex. 6th to protect Linus) to keep Borgen and reap the benefits of years of development.  We don't have much in the pipeline who plays the way he does and we would give up much more to trade for it.

Again, I'm not knocking him as a player. But what is so exceptional about him that makes him so indispensable? In my estimation he is not a top two pairing defenseman. He is a functional to solid blue liner. 

[dudacek]

I like Will Borgen but he has joined Guhle and Kassian on the list of greatest “concept of” Sabres of all time.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What do you think Borgen is worth? A 4th? He is a 24 D with 14 games of experience and he couldn’t beat out guys on our terrible team in prior years.

Who is he beating out longterm here? 3 young D are already here in Joki, Dahlin and Bryson. Samuelsson also looks nearly ready.  

If Risto is traded this off-season then Borgen will likely be protected.  

I think he is a fine player. And he will be here for longer than Risto will be. I don’t think they will take Risto, but if the6 do we get the benefit of salary relief and add another player. 

 

I dont know who he is beating out, if anyone. But we do have to have six healthy damn, and then the injuries. 

So they take a Borgen, then we lose Risto after he signs someplace else. Two players down that way. And ya, that’s probably the route we take. Smh 

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Again, I'm not knocking him as a player. But what is so exceptional about him that makes him so indispensable? In my estimation he is not a top two pairing defenseman. He is a functional to solid blue liner. 

Yes. Worth keeping 

[Randall Flagg]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I like Will Borgen but he has joined Guhle and Kassian on the list of greatest “concept of” Sabres of all time.

Not really. He gets talked about like once a month and 85% of the posters talking about him take the stance that it's odd to try and take trivial steps to avoid losing him for no reason when it'd likely be easy to lose someone else who is worse/has less of a future with team

[dudacek]

25 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Not really. He gets talked about like once a month and 85% of the posters talking about him take the stance that it's odd to try and take trivial steps to avoid losing him for no reason when it'd likely be easy to lose someone else who is worse/has less of a future with team

Disagree. You are overlooking the posters who think we need to take less-than trivial steps to protect him because he projects to be the next Jay McKee.

The “concept of” part comes the fact he “needs” protection, which implies that he could become a top 3 defenceman when nothing he has done to date suggests that is the case, and nothing we’ve seen to date from the industry indicates that he projects that way.

And from the idea of protecting him over Risto, which implies he’s better than an equally physical defenceman who puts up 40 points a year, or at least the return that defenceman would garner at the trade deadline. What would be more shocking: getting a 2nd rounder for Risto at the deadline, or getting a 2nd rounder for Borgen?

He’s likeable, and probably useful, but he’s not an important player, and probably never will be. Most teams in the league will be exposing a Borgen-level player.

Edited June 6, 2021 by dudacek

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Disagree. You are overlooking the posters who think we need to take less-than trivial steps to protect him because he projects to be the next Jay McKee.

The “concept of” part comes the fact he “needs” protection, which implies that he could become a top 3 defenceman when nothing he has done to date suggests that is the case, and nothing we’ve seen to date from the industry indicates that he projects that way.

And from the idea of protecting him over Risto, which implies he’s better than an equally physical defenceman who puts up 40 points a year, or at least the return that defenceman would garner at the trade deadline. What would be more shocking: getting a 2nd rounder for Risto at the deadline, or getting a 2nd rounder for Borgen?

He’s likeable, and probably useful, but he’s not an important player, and probably never will be. Most teams in the league will be exposing a Borgen-level player.

For me, he is more important to the future of the team than Risto, and thus should be protected over Risto.  He may not be a better player but Risto has one year on his contract and I think it’s pretty obvious that he doesn’t want to be here.

If you are ignoring the contract situations in your evaluation, then you aren’t evaluated the situation properly. (And I’m not saying you personally, what I’m saying is for anyone who scoffs at the idea that Risto could be left exposed.)

If the idea of loosing one year of Risto for nothing is too earth shattering, then my answer is to trade him for something.

Anyway, I think all this talk could be pointless.  There will be roster turnover.  Every time Adams opens his mouth he is talking about moving forward with guys who WANT to be here.

I’ll see who is on the roster when the expansion draft rolls around.

[klos1963]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Well, I don’t think you ever have enough young D in the system. So if you let Borgen. Go and Risto then leaves, we have lost two defenseman, no thanks 

What? Another second round pick? 

We're likely drafting Power, so the loss of defensemen shouldn't matter. Plus if need be, we could try to get a dman in return for Risto.

[klos1963]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

For me, he is more important to the future of the team than Risto, and thus should be protected over Risto.  He may not be a better player but Risto has one year on his contract and I think it’s pretty obvious that he doesn’t want to be here.

If you are ignoring the contract situations in your evaluation, then you aren’t evaluated the situation properly. (And I’m not saying you personally, what I’m saying is for anyone who scoffs at the idea that Risto could be left exposed.)

If the idea of loosing one year of Risto for nothing is too earth shattering, then my answer is to trade him for something.

Anyway, I think all this talk could be pointless.  There will be roster turnover.  Every time Adams opens his mouth he is talking about moving forward with guys who WANT to be here.

I’ll see who is on the roster when the expansion draft rolls around.

I can't imagine if you asked any player if they want to be in Buffalo, they would say yes, but people like Cozens, Dahlin.... have no choice, they are under team control for a while.

[Hoss]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No,  not ever.  Borgen has 14 games of NHL experience at 24.  Risto has significant trade value and we have a pile of other young D. 

I wouldn’t say Risto has “significant” trade value but I’d still protect him over Borgen even though Borgen is a RHD. I’d like to trade Risto before the expansion draft anyways.

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I think he is a fine player. And he will be here for longer than Risto will be. I don’t think they will take Risto, but if the6 do we get the benefit of salary relief and add another player. 

I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.  Given the option of an exposed Risto there is no chance Seattle wouldn’t take him over say Bjork.  Risto would slot in to a top line D position and assuming not a fit, would yield a nice return at the deadline (or before) for them.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m still on project “tabla rasa” so I prefer a plan to move Risto  before a choice has to be made.

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I can't imagine if you asked any player if they want to be in Buffalo, they would say yes, but people like Cozens, Dahlin.... have no choice, they are under team control for a while.

Some of them were asked, and responded that they were excited about being part of this group and building something going forward.

Other guys were asked and said: I’m fine with whatever happens, or wherever I am next year, or I’m here for now.

If they are mentally checked out with one foot out the door, it doesn’t really matter the reason, they aren’t going to be all in.

[dudacek]

41 minutes ago, Curt said:

For me, he is more important to the future of the team than Risto, and thus should be protected over Risto.  He may not be a better player but Risto has one year on his contract and I think it’s pretty obvious that he doesn’t want to be here.

If you are ignoring the contract situations in your evaluation, then you aren’t evaluated the situation properly. (And I’m not saying you personally, what I’m saying is for anyone who scoffs at the idea that Risto could be left exposed.)

If the idea of loosing one year of Risto for nothing is too earth shattering, then my answer is to trade him for something.

Anyway, I think all this talk could be pointless.  There will be roster turnover.  Every time Adams opens his mouth he is talking about moving forward with guys who WANT to be here.

I’ll see who is on the roster when the expansion draft rolls around.

Im not ignoring the contract issue at all. IMO, it’s the strongest element of the pro-Borgen argument.

My point is asset management: think of Risto as a $50 chip you can cash in at the deadline. If Borgen is a $50 chip too, keeping him makes sense. But he’s not right now. And he can probably be replaced in the lineup for no assets and $1 million by this year’s UFA version of Luke Schenn or Derek Forbert. But people think he’s worth more. Thus the concept of Borgen.

Edited June 6, 2021 by dudacek