Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[7+6=13]

It's amazing to me that anyone actually thinks KA could have and should have gotten more.  The entire league knew we were shopping Hall.

As if there's other GM's are out there saying,  we would have given more but that stupid Adams didn't ask us.  Or that the other GM's were just saying who could screw Adams the most with the lowest offer and the Bruins won.  

Hall sucks and the playoff teams weren't interested beyond what we got.  Get over it.

[MODO Hockey]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

A chance to embarrass this franchise even more, trust me the proposals are coming 

This is not only pathetic to say the least with trading Taylor to BOS, first you prove that you were dumb enough to sign him for 8 million 1 season (sigh for a bad deal), then you ratain half of that just to get rid of him months later for a 2nd and a nobody. I mean, what is this GM doing?! Kevin Adams is really stupid. 

Taylor Hall is a catch if given the right tools. I think he will succeed in Boston, let's see.

But with that said, 

If Kevin Adamas cant do what is necessary to retain Linus Ullmark im fkn leaving to. 



 

[Doohicksie]

Just now, Eleven said:

Thanks.  Have a great night.

You too. 

To be honest, I don't like the trade but I don't think doing nothing was an option.  That, in my view, would have made KA the laughing stock.

[Broken Ankles]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

A bit more on Bjork:  he’s 6’0”, 198, he had 52 pts in 39 games as a junior at ND, then turned pro.  It looks like he missed about half of each of his 1st 2 pro seasons with injuries — he played 39 total NHL/AHL games in his 1st year and 33 in his 2nd, before playing 65 last year.  He’s played in 30 out of Boston’s 39 games this year.  

From HF boards.....

Bjork was very much a skill guy at Notre Dame and not at all projected to be the checking forward he has sort of turned into here. Some of us have compared him to Dan Paille in that sense. I personally think he still has untapped offensive upside and I think a lot of what has held him back is that he's spending too much time thinking about playing sound 2-way hockey and keeping the coach happy and that has totally overridden his offensive instincts. I think with a longer leash offensively he could finally figure it out. He still occasionally has flashes where he'll take over a whole shift and leave you wondering why you don't see that guy all the time. I don't think it's for lack of effort, though.  With that said he has had I think 2 shoulder surgeries so maybe the shot just isn't want it could have been. But he's fast and works hard.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This isn’t a bad trade, it’s just disappointing.

Hall is 40-point 2nd-line rental winger and he got traded for a 2nd-rounder. Happens all the time. We just hoped we’d get more on his reputation.

Lazar and Bjork are 2 throw-in 4th-liners traded for each other. Happens all the time. We just happen to like Lazar.

Let’s face it, we just wanted to celebrate something for once, or see a sign that our team was going to do something clever, and we didn’t get either.

It's a terrible trade.  Foligno went for a 1st and a 4th.  We traded Hall and Lazar for a 2nd and a player, Bjork, who is twice as expensive as Lazar, who is only a LW, doesn't take faceoffs, and isn't as productive.  This trade is worthy of TM.  It's one of the worst trades since McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching and DeLo.  

KA got fleeced.  We basically gave Hall away for nothing.  KA should be fired for this deal. Awful.  

Lazar for Bjork would have been a bad trade.  There honestly better be more to this deal then is being reported.

Edited April 12, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You find me a case where the hockey community respects a franchise for refusing to take a 2nd-round pick for any 2-goal scorer, let alone one who is going to walk in 17 games. I'll wait.

got 'eeem lol 

this is a joke, right? how could i be privy to that information, for one, especially when other GMs themselves may not be privy to the specifics of what Adams did, or did not, turn down in other deals.

you can continue going out of your way to intentionally miss the essence of the point being made, that there's a non-negligible likelihood we'd be better off doing nothing. I corrected Curt on the same thing. this is due to the presence of the two players in question. It changes the dynamics of the deal entirely 

I understand there's an obsession with the idea of converting expiring assets into the hope-blank-canvas of draft picks, because that's our stanley cup every year, but just because we GOT a pick doesn't mean it was for sure, a good trade. 

Certainly not enough to be throwing around terms like "categorically" willy nilly

Edited April 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Doohicksie]

And really, since Hall is signed only through the end of the year, is it that awful that we're retaining salary?  Is it going to prevent us from putting players we want on the roster for games through the end of the year?  It's money out of TPeg's pocket, sure, but are we going to be bumping the cap with Eichel out and half of Hall off the books now?

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

If Kevin Adamas cant do what is necessary to retain Linus Ullmark im fkn leaving to. 



 

And what is necessary? Do you have any insight in terms of dollars or term?

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

From HF boards.....

Bjork was very much a skill guy at Notre Dame and not at all projected to be the checking forward he has sort of turned into here. Some of us have compared him to Dan Paille in that sense. I personally think he still has untapped offensive upside and I think a lot of what has held him back is that he's spending too much time thinking about playing sound 2-way hockey and keeping the coach happy and that has totally overridden his offensive instincts. I think with a longer leash offensively he could finally figure it out. He still occasionally has flashes where he'll take over a whole shift and leave you wondering why you don't see that guy all the time. I don't think it's for lack of effort, though.  With that said he has had I think 2 shoulder surgeries so maybe the shot just isn't want it could have been. But he's fast and works hard.

I'd be weary to add another guy with injury issues, too 

[nfreeman]

We got a second which could be the 17th or so pick in the 2nd round and a prospect for a guy no one was going to give up a first for and a likable JAG.  I think this is entirely respectable.  

[MODO Hockey]

Just now, dudacek said:

And what is necessary? Do you have any insight in terms of dollars or term?

[Archie Lee]

Here's what  bugs me about this trade.  The Bruins are a division rival.  Not just this year in the East Division, but every year.  They are on the ropes a bit right now.  We play them 6 times in our last 15 games.  We have an opportunity to knock them out of the playoffs (if the Rangers and/or Flyers take care of their own business).  I wanted to trade Hall.  But if the deal was to the Bruins with Lazar and for this return, I would have kept Hall and played him and hoped to beat the Bruins 4 of 6 and send them reeling into the off-season.  Instead, we are going to pay 1/2 of Hall's salary to play us 6 times. He's going to be motivated.  He might re-sign with the Bruins at a reasonable rate. 

I know that Hall way underperformed expectations this year and nobody should be "scared of Taylor Hall".  It's possible though that we just gave a breath of life to a rival.  I hate that.  I really, really hate that.

I don't have an issue with the 2nd round pick.  Hall cost nothing but the owner's money. It's a 2nd we would not have had otherwise.  I just hate that the deal is with the Bruins.  Hate it.

As for Bjork?  He's a Sabre now.  I'll be rooting for him to succeed.

 

[7+6=13]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It's a terrible trade.  Foligno went for a 1st and a 4th.  We traded Hall and Lazar for a 2nd and a player, Bjork, who is twice as expensive as Lazar, who is only a LW, doesn't take faceoffs, doesn't kill penalties and isn't as productive.  This trade is worthy of TM.  It's one of the worst trades since McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching and DeLo.  

KA got fleeced.  We basically gave Hall away for nothing.  KA should be fired for this deal. Awful.  

Lazar for Bjork would have been a bad trade.  There honestly better be more to this deal then is being reported.

Fleeced?  It was a trade involving low end NHL players and one grossly overplayed player with a no trade clause who's a free agent after the season.  This won't effect either team long term so it doesn't even qualify for this level of outrage. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

We got a second which could be the 17th or so pick in the 2nd round and a prospect for a guy no one was going to give up a first for and a likable JAG.  I think this is entirely respectable.  

Maybe this is a nitpick but I'm not sure I'd term Bjork a prospect, heading for 25 this summer. he's on his second NHL contract

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Here's what  bugs me about this trade.  The Bruins are a division rival.  Not just this year in the East Division, but every year.  They are on the ropes a bit right now.  We play them 6 times in our last 15 games.  We have an opportunity to knock them out of the playoffs (if the Rangers and/or Flyers take care of their own business).  I wanted to trade Hall.  But if the deal was to the Bruins with Lazar and for this return, I would have kept Hall and played him and hoped to beat the Bruins 4 of 6 and send them reeling into the off-season.  Instead, we are going to pay 1/2 of Hall's salary to play us 6 times. He's going to be motivated.  He might re-sign with the Bruins at a reasonable rate. 

I know that Hall way underperformed expectations this year and nobody should be "scared of Taylor Hall".  It's possible though that we just gave a breath of life to a rival.  I hate that.  I really, really hate that.

I don't have an issue with the 2nd round pick.  Hall cost nothing but the owner's money. It's a 2nd we would not have had otherwise.  I just hate that the deal is with the Bruins.  Hate it.

As for Bjork?  He's a Sabre now.  I'll be rooting for him to succeed.

 

Until the Sabres don’t suck, they have no rivals. You think the Bruins look at Buffalo as a rival?  Hah

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

got 'eeem lol 

this is a joke, right? how could i be privy to that information, for one, especially when other GMs themselves may not be privy to the specifics of what Adams did, or did not, turn down in other deals.

you can continue going out of your way to intentionally miss the essence of the point being made, that there's a non-negligible likelihood we'd be better off doing nothing. I corrected Curt on the same thing. this is due to the presence of the two players in question. It changes the dynamics of the deal entirely 

I understand there's an obsession with the idea of converting expiring assets into the hope-blank-canvas of draft picks, because that's our stanley cup every year, but just because we GOT a pick doesn't mean it was for sure, a good trade. 

Certainly not enough to be throwing around terms like "categorically" willy nilly

I don't think I'm the one going out of my way to miss the point being made.

I was responding to Eleven saying he would turn down a 2nd for Taylor Hall in order to give him respect in future negotiations.

 

[nfreeman]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Maybe this is a nitpick but I'm not sure I'd term Bjork a prospect, heading for 25 this summer. he's on his second NHL contract

Later stage prospect maybe?  He’s only played 138 NHL games.

@dudacek — he’s also more solidly built than ERod.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Fleeced?  It was a trade involving low end NHL players and one grossly overplayed player with a no trade clause who's a free agent after the season.  This won't effect either team long term so it doesn't even qualify for this level of outrage. 

A 33 year old Foligno on an expiring contract who tallied 16 pts YTD went for a 1st and a 4th. Our 28 year old winger on an expiring deal with 19 pts went for a 2nd.  Am I missing something.  It's a further illustration that KA has zero idea how to be a GM in the NHL.  Not a surprise, he isn't qualified for the job.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don't think I'm the one going out of my way to miss the point being made.

I was responding to Eleven saying he would turn down a 2nd for Taylor Hall in order to give him respect in future negotiations.

 

the post in question he said they team would be better keeping hall, and "spitting in everyone's face" or whatever. 

You said "categorically false", and I happen to think he may be right about the first part of his sentence 

[nfreeman]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A 33 year old Foligno on an expiring contract who tallied 16 pts YTD went for a 1st and a 4th. Our 28 year old winger on an expiring deal with 19 pts went for a 2nd.  Am I missing something.  It's a further illustration that KA has zero idea how to be a GM in the NHL.  Not a surprise, he isn't qualified for the job.

If you were loading up for a playoff run, would you rather have Hall or Palmieri?

I guaran-dam-tee that Lou L and Trotz prefer Palmieri.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, nfreeman said:

If you were loading up for a playoff run, would you rather have Hall or Palmieri?

I guaran-dam-tee that Lou L and Trotz prefer Palmieri.  

What does Palmieri have to do with my post of Foligno vs Hall?

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A 33 year old Foligno on an expiring contract who tallied 16 pts YTD went for a 1st and a 4th. Our 28 year old winger on an expiring deal with 19 pts went for a 2nd.  Am I missing something.  It's a further illustration that KA has zero idea how to be a GM in the NHL.  Not a surprise, he isn't qualified for the job.

I feel like you are leaving out a lot of important context here.  Specifically how these two players are viewed around the league in terms of intangibles.  Rightly or wrongly.

[nfreeman]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What does Palmieri have to do with my post of Foligno vs Hall?

Good question!

However, the same is true for Foligno vs Hall.  
 

 

separately:  here is the very knowledgeable Eric Duhatschek on the trade:

 

Bjork never realized his potential in Boston; a change of scenery might inspire him to new heights. Lazar is an underrated support piece — an energizer bunny of a depth forward, with a pleasing personality and an easy dressing-room charm. A second-rounder, going Buffalo’s way, when it took firsts to land Foligno and Palmieri, suggests just how far Hall’s stock has fallen. On the other hand, considering Hall’s pedigree and presumably his motivation to succeed, it’s a risk well worth taking if you’re the Bruins. It’s up to Hall to provide the necessary reward. From Buffalo’s side, to extract any sort of value for a player that came and went in such a flash has to be seen as a positive.

Bruins grade: C-plus
Sabres grade: B minus

 

 

 

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

the post in question he said they team would be better keeping hall, and "spitting in everyone's face" or whatever. 

You said "categorically false", and I happen to think he may be right about the first part of his sentence 

To your point:

I agree there is a non-negligible chance that when the dust settles Curtis Lazar will have had a more useful career than either Bjork or the 2nd round pick. I would also say there is a better chance that when the dust settles either Bjork or the pick will have had a more useful career than Lazar, and a decent chance that both will.

As I said upthread, 2nd-round picks aren't just lottery tickets for young players, they are also currency that you can use to buy real NHL players

To mine:

Push or shove, two minutes to deadline, the Bruins 2nd-rounder straight across is your best offer for Hall. Do you take it, or let him play out the string and walk for nothing?

Do you think a decision to let him walk for nothing will generally increase your credibility in the eyes of the industry?

Personally, I would you view you as prideful and irresponsible for leaving real money on the table.

Edited April 12, 2021 by dudacek

[tom webster]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A 33 year old Foligno on an expiring contract who tallied 16 pts YTD went for a 1st and a 4th. Our 28 year old winger on an expiring deal with 19 pts went for a 2nd.  Am I missing something.  It's a further illustration that KA has zero idea how to be a GM in the NHL.  Not a surprise, he isn't qualified for the job.

When compared to what Toronto paid for Foligno, it’s disappointing but what exactly you think happened? Edmonton offered two firsts and KA said no, I’d rather take Boston’s offer? Or did three or four GM’s that could afford Hall and are competing against each other all say let’s get together and see who can screw Buffalo?

They got the best they could get. The only reason anyone expected more is because some Twitter account with ten followers told them so.