Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[erickompositör72]

  On 4/13/2021 at 6:40 PM, Doohickie said:

This:  He either sucks and shouldn't have asked for big $ or he sandbagged so he's even worse (as a person).

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What? Any player who does not get the maximum $ in their contract is simply not intelligent. Unless they're going to/staying with a sure-fire contender. 

[Drag0nDan]

  On 4/13/2021 at 6:40 PM, thewookie1 said:

I have a suspicion that Krueger was effectively Hall's primary reason he received a full NMC. After all, a full NMC on a 1 year contract worth 8mil is rather unusual unless the team and player are very comfortable with their respective situations. You might see a vet or long time player for a franchise do this or someone fearing being waived at some point but Hall really doesn't fall into either category. From there you look at general trade protection. Various levels of a NTC work fine for protecting players from situations they don't wish to be involved in. But Hall's agent obviously insisted on a NMC which leads me to believe he had intended to be traded to Boston or a similar team as a back up plan from the start. Had he merely wanted to avoid the non-playoff teams he would been open to a 15 team NTC which is far more common for very short term contracts. Based on how Adams talked yesterday I would imagine he wasn't exactly happy about the situation that occurred but wasn't going to "out" Hall as some manipulative ***.

And before you say it was Adams' own doing just remember how much faith Kevyn and the Pegulas put in Krueger's words. If Krueger said that Hall would waive his NMC to facilitate a trade, should it come to that, he likely assured them of it and they would of had no qualms about giving Hall the NMC. Adams definitely made a rookie mistake but I'd guess many GMs, especially newer ones, would of fallen into the same trap in his situation.  If someone you respected vouches for a player; why wouldn't you trust him?

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I think in this climate it allowed him to say no to the bruins offer and take buffalos knowing if it doesnt work out, i can still make it happen with boston and get my pay day.  He was also traded last season and had no say, so i think he was thinking if I'm getting moved this time I want a say.  

[Doohicksie]

  On 4/14/2021 at 1:07 PM, Drag0nDan said:

I think in this climate it allowed him to say no to the bruins offer and take buffalos knowing if it doesnt work out, i can still make it happen with boston and get my pay day.  He was also traded last season and had no say, so i think he was thinking if I'm getting moved this time I want a say.  

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This season has been so horrible it really doesn't matter, but I hope KA takes a lesson from this situation and is more careful about contract terms and conditions.

[bunomatic]

Taylor Hall takes no responsibility for his lack of game while a Buffalo Sabre. Too funny. Thats ok Taylor says coach Cassidy, we’ve got your back. Ok everyone come on in here. Group hug for Taylor. You get to play with good players now.

apparently playing with Eichel doesn’t constitute playing with good players.

[Thorner]

One interesting thing about Hall is, I heard an interview of his (I think with TSN?) after the deal where he said "I came here to play with Jack, who is a better player than I am". 

That's not that common to hear from a player of his stature.

He's a different type of cat I think. 

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 1:26 PM, Doohickie said:

This season has been so horrible it really doesn't matter, but I hope KA takes a lesson from this situation and is more careful about contract terms and conditions.

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What exactly is the issue here? We signed a guy, it didn’t work out, and we got a second round pick for him. Terry’s money and our time were the only things that were wasted. 

  On 4/14/2021 at 1:43 PM, Thorny said:

One interesting thing about Hall is, I heard an interview of his (I think with TSN?) after the deal where he said "I came here to play with Jack, who is a better player than I am". 

That's not that common to hear from a player of his stature.

He's a different type of cat I think. 

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Skinner probably thought the same thing.

[Thorner]

  On 4/14/2021 at 1:44 PM, SDS said:

What exactly is the issue here? We signed a guy, it didn’t work out, and we got a second round pick for him. Terry’s money and our time were the only things that were wasted. 

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Ya the contract itself was totally reasonable for the evaluation. 

The evaluation was the issue 

  On 4/14/2021 at 1:44 PM, SDS said:

What exactly is the issue here? We signed a guy, it didn’t work out, and we got a second round pick for him. Terry’s money and our time were the only things that were wasted. 

Skinner probably thought the same thing.

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Hearing him say "Jack is better" caught me a bit off guard particularly when he's on the hunt for a deal

[Doohicksie]

  On 4/14/2021 at 1:44 PM, SDS said:

What exactly is the issue here? We signed a guy, it didn’t work out, and we got a second round pick for him. Terry’s money and our time were the only things that were wasted. 

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Because of the NMC, KA could not negotiate a better return in the trade.  That's the problem.

[darksabre]

  On 4/14/2021 at 2:21 PM, Doohickie said:

Because of the NMC, KA could not negotiate a better return in the trade.  That's the problem.

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So what.

[GoPuckYourself]

  On 4/12/2021 at 6:46 AM, PerreaultForever said:

Foligno was not acquired for his point totals. he brings what they lack. They are a much better playoff team now. 

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That's the most ridiculous reply I've heard.

Edited April 14, 2021 by GoPuckYourself

[Drag0nDan]

  On 4/14/2021 at 2:58 PM, GoPuckYourself said:

That's the most ridiculous reply I've heard.

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I don't think its a stretch to say that his impact is felt beyond his point total though (although he does have more 5x5 points and goals than hall).  He takes draws, starts in the d zone, kills penalties, blocks shots, hits people... etc.  He plays more of a 200ft game than Hall, and that's what Toronto needs.

[inkman]

  On 4/14/2021 at 1:43 PM, Thorny said:

One interesting thing about Hall is, I heard an interview of his (I think with TSN?) after the deal where he said "I came here to play with Jack, who is a better player than I am". 

That's not that common to hear from a player of his stature.

He's a different type of cat I think. 

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I think Alex nails Hall’s persona at the end here

 

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 2:21 PM, Doohickie said:

Because of the NMC, KA could not negotiate a better return in the trade.  That's the problem.

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Can you imagine a world where obtaining a player only costs you money and if they don’t work out you get assets in return?

I believe John Lennon asked this very question once…

  On 4/14/2021 at 3:18 PM, inkman said:

I think Alex nails Hall’s persona at the end here

 

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I know that was supposed to be funny, but that was incredibly awful. I would have expected better from him.

[Thorner]

  On 4/14/2021 at 3:18 PM, SDS said:

Can you imagine a world where obtaining a player only costs you money and if they don’t work out you get assets in return?

I believe John Lennon asked this very question once…

I know that was supposed to be funny, but that was incredibly awful. I would have expected better from him.

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I laughed purely for shock value. I'm surprised he said that haha

[nfreeman]

  On 4/14/2021 at 2:58 PM, GoPuckYourself said:

That's the most ridiculous reply I've heard.

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Would you rather have Hall for a playoff run this year or Foligno?

[Doohicksie]

  On 4/14/2021 at 2:27 PM, darksabre said:

So what.

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So the Sabres could have done better when they traded Hall if they didn't have the NMC in the contract.  I would hope this informs KA on future contracts (i.e., he doesn't so freely include a NMC in future contracts).

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 4:27 PM, Doohickie said:

So the Sabres could have done better when they traded Hall if they didn't have the NMC in the contract.  I would hope this informs KA on future contracts (i.e., he doesn't so freely include a NMC in future contracts).

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What do you know about how freely this occurred? I’m fairly certain everyone in the NHL knows the ramifications involved. Do you think he was confused when this was negotiated? Or that maybe Googled the wrong acronym?

[darksabre]

  On 4/14/2021 at 4:27 PM, Doohickie said:

So the Sabres could have done better when they traded Hall if they didn't have the NMC in the contract.  I would hope this informs KA on future contracts (i.e., he doesn't so freely include a NMC in future contracts).

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Love the hindsight take. I suppose they should have assumed when they signed him that he would be absolutely atrocious too? They should have looked into their crystal ball? 

[Doohicksie]

  On 4/14/2021 at 4:30 PM, SDS said:

What do you know about how freely this occurred? I’m fairly certain everyone in the NHL knows the ramifications involved. Do you think he was confused when this was negotiated? Or that maybe Googled the wrong acronym?

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Don't put words into my mouth.

Upthread someone suggested the NMC was included on RFK's recommendation, that he essentially vouched for Hall based on their past history.  That ended up working out poorly for KA and the Sabres.  A lot of people are finding fault with KA for even including it.  ALL I WAS SAYING is based on that experience, KA can make a better informed decision on NMCs going forward.  Not they he should never include one, but that he has a better understand, firsthand, of the ramifications.

  On 4/14/2021 at 4:36 PM, darksabre said:

Love the hindsight take. I suppose they should have assumed when they signed him that he would be absolutely atrocious too? They should have looked into their crystal ball? 

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Including the NMC hindered KA's ability to get the best deal when Hall was traded.  When signing a similar contract in the future he can take this into consideration and depending on the situation might decline to sign a player in the future.  I think somewhere in the thread it said including NMCs on a 1-year deal was not common.

[PerreaultForever]

  On 4/14/2021 at 2:58 PM, GoPuckYourself said:

That's the most ridiculous reply I've heard.

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Hey Go Puck Yourself. 

[Taro T]

  On 4/14/2021 at 4:36 PM, darksabre said:

Love the hindsight take. I suppose they should have assumed when they signed him that he would be absolutely atrocious too? They should have looked into their crystal ball? 

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Major concerns about it were definitely hindsight.  In the Taylor signed thread, there are ~3 posts talking about it in a rather matter of fact fashion on the day it was announced and then again starting on ~ page 28 of 30.

It was only ever going to be an issue if the Sabres had bigger problems than Hall's NMC.  Oooops.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Taro T

[nfreeman]

 

 

[Doohicksie]

Oh Mike Kelly, you sweet summer child...

[LGR4GM]

Adams is to blame for the Hall return. He should have held his ground when Hall said he wanted Boston and he should have held his ground with Boston. When Hall got his no movement clause Adams should have said "look you may still get traded at the deadline, give me a list of 5 teams." Adams should have asked for that before the deadline and then negotiate. I would have called Hall's bluff. Boston isn't offering enough so it is off the table you can go here or here OR you can stay in Buffalo for the remainder of the year without Eichel as your center. Your call Taylor. Adams showed he was a rookie gm without the poker skills to play. 

Adams let Hall drive the Sabres organization instead of being the General Manager. 

[tom webster]

  On 4/15/2021 at 1:41 PM, LGR4GM said:

Adams is to blame for the Hall return. He should have held his ground when Hall said he wanted Boston and he should have held his ground with Boston. When Hall got his no movement clause Adams should have said "look you may still get traded at the deadline, give me a list of 5 teams." Adams should have asked for that before the deadline and then negotiate. I would have called Hall's bluff. Boston isn't offering enough so it is off the table you can go here or here OR you can stay in Buffalo for the remainder of the year without Eichel as your center. Your call Taylor. Adams showed he was a rookie gm without the poker skills to play. 

Adams let Hall drive the Sabres organization instead of being the General Manager. 

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While I don’t completely agree, this is a very valid argument. I think that how you treat guys that are respected throughout the league can impact future signings but again, I understand the counter point.