Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

I was happy we signed him as well, until I saw what RK had planned for Skinner and that KA failed to address the issues at RW.  Then deal made less sense and now in hindsight the whole episode is one the worst in Sabres history.

I think once the dust settled a lot of folks on the board were a bit concerned about where it slotted people.  Olofsson with cozens and staal never gelled.  They tried like 3 different wingers with jack and hall before they decided on reinhart- and then moved hall off for olofsson.  It was not a good fit, it messed with other fits throughout the roster, and essentially nudged skinner into a bottom 6 role, with players that weren't suited to playing with him.  

It was a big swing/big move, and it was a big whiff.  What they ended up getting for their money was a terrible season, and a 2nd round pick.

[nfreeman]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

well, again:

within the context of the decision already having been made to add Hall, absolutely no issue with the NMC being given

absolutely no issue with the return considering context

and at the time, I even agreed Hall was a good signing

That's the good thing about results though: they are objective. In spite of all of that, KA took a big swing and suffered a big fat "L" on the Taylor Hall add, and his entire offseason. 

Well, I certainly agree that KA is accountable for the results.

I think the results in terms of Hall's productivity were terrible, as were the broader results of KA's first year as a GM.

However, the Hall results in terms of asset management were fine -- they didn't have to give up any assets for Hall, he was on the team for 37 games, and they got a 2nd-rounder and a prospect young player for him.

 

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

I was happy we signed him as well, until I saw what RK had planned for Skinner and that KA failed to address the issues at RW.  Then deal made less sense and now in hindsight the whole episode is one the worst in Sabres history.

This is nuts.  There are multiple credible NHL insiders saying they weren't going to get any more for Hall than what they got, and they were contractually committed to Hall for less than 1 season.

This was a country mile away from an Okposo or Skinner debacle, or the tank, or the ROR trade, or GMTM's failed tenure, or JB's failed tenure, or Housely, or Krueger, or for that matter trading Schoenfeld, Rico and Gare.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I certainly agree that KA is accountable for the results.

I think the results in terms of Hall's productivity were terrible, as were the broader results of KA's first year as a GM.

However, the Hall results in terms of asset management were fine -- they didn't have to give up any assets for Hall, he was on the team for 37 games, and they got a 2nd-rounder and a prospect young player for him.

 

This is nuts.  There are multiple credible NHL insiders saying they weren't going to get any more for Hall than what they got, and they were contractually committed to Hall for less than 1 season.

This was a country mile away from an Okposo or Skinner debacle, or the tank, or the ROR trade, or GMTM's failed tenure, or JB's failed tenure, or Housely, or Krueger, or for that matter trading Schoenfeld, Rico and Gare.

I agree, if asset acquisition isn't a part of asset management, KA did AoK

[darksabre]

I'd really love to know some day how much influence Krueger and Pegula had on getting Adams to sign Hall with a NMC.

It was a risky move, and one probably worth making, but man...I'd love to know if anyone in that room was opposed to it...

[nfreeman]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'm so glad you picked this analogy. 

We indeed were dealt those cards. A skilled player can make from that what they need to. 

Adams and Co. have no course of action but to keep folding until they are dealt a good hand through the draft.

trial and error. 

I know you know this, but the most critical task is for them to build the right infrastructure to accommodate the good players they already have and (hopefully!) draft:  coaching, scouting and goaltending.

Right now we are nowhere on all 3 of those.

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Again:  did anyone here, at the time we signed Hall, say that he/she would've walked away from signing him because of the NMC?

Shouldn't the gm have known better then fans on a message board. That's what I'm always told about draft picks, "you don't know what they do". Guess that only works 1 way.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I'd really love to know some day how much influence Krueger and Pegula had on getting Adams to sign Hall with a NMC.

It was a risky move, and one probably worth making, but man...I'd love to know if anyone in that room was opposed to it...

If the videos are to be believed, it looked like Adams approached Pegula with the idea, and Pegula's interpretation seemed to be "if we do this, we're cup contender, not just going for the playoffs" and Adams agreed. 

[chileanseabass]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I'd really love to know some day how much influence Krueger and Pegula had on getting Adams to sign Hall with a NMC.

It was a risky move, and one probably worth making, but man...I'd love to know if anyone in that room was opposed to it...

I bet none of them thought twice about it.  They were all convinced the team would be pushing for a playoff spot, so this was a no brainer... if all it took to get Hall to agree to come to Buffalo was a NMC, then everyone said "yes, of course!"

[Sabres Fan in NS]

44 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

What contractual right is Adams referring to?

The right to veto any trade due to the NTC in Hall's contract.

[nfreeman]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Shouldn't the gm have known better then fans on a message board. That's what I'm always told about draft picks, "you don't know what they do". Guess that only works 1 way.

I think the GM well understood that if he wanted to sign Hall, the NMC was part of the price, and he was OK with paying that price.

Do you think that they would've gotten a #1 for Hall if the NMC had not been in place? 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I know you know this, but the most critical task is for them to build the right infrastructure to accommodate the good players they already have and (hopefully!) draft:  coaching, scouting and goaltending.

Right now we are nowhere on all 3 of those.

We have no value contracts, no steal trades, no clever cap circumventions, no hidden value. There's nothing. They don't do the little things team can do to make their own luck. and teams certainly aren't going to help us, now. 

I bet you adams makes all 10 selections. I think even they think their best and only course of action now is to draft and draft and draft some more until enough pieces hopefully fit. 

which makes the scouting holes *head desk* worthy

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think the GM well understood that if he wanted to sign Hall, the NMC was part of the price, and he was OK with paying that price.

Do you think that they would've gotten a #1 for Hall if the NMC had not been in place? 

pretty good chance I'd say. We got a second when there was only one option for a team to trade with 

[JoeSchmoe]

Maybe this is something for a poll, but do we think Bjork was actually targeted by KA, or was he strongarmed into taking him based on how little leverage he had with Hall's NMC?

[nfreeman]

Just now, Thorny said:

We have no value contracts, no steal trades, no clever cap circumventions, no hidden value. There's nothing. They don't do the little things team can do to make their own luck. and teams certainly aren't going to help us, now. 

I bet you adams makes all 10 selections. I think even they think their best and only course of action now is to draft and draft and draft some more until enough pieces hopefully fit. 

I agree with most of this and would just add that I fervently hope (and kinda think) that KA understands that drafting well won't matter unless and until the other fundamental components (coaching, FO and goaltending) are in place.

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We have no value contracts, no steal trades, no clever cap circumventions, no hidden value. There's nothing. They don't do the little things team can do to make their own luck. and teams certainly aren't going to help us, now. 

I bet you adams makes all 10 selections. I think even they think their best and only course of action now is to draft and draft and draft some more until enough pieces hopefully fit. 

which makes the scouting holes *head desk* worthy

To make a baseball analogy, this is like being down four runs in the ninth inning with a guy on second base. There’s no value in stealing third base because you need four runs, not one. 

1 minute ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Maybe this is something for a poll, but do we think Bjork was actually targeted by KA, or was he strongarmed into taking him based on how little leverage he had with Hall's NMC?

Boston is $29,000 under the after this was done. Something additional needed to be done, so the only question is what that was going to be.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with most of this and would just add that I fervently hope (and kinda think) that KA understands that drafting well won't matter unless and until the other fundamental components (coaching, FO and goaltending) are in place.

I think he knows about the first two, whether he has better evaluation aptitude when it comes to addressing those areas than he does with the roster remains to be seen. 

I don't know that he knows we need a backup goalie. Missing that this past offseason was so incredibly Derp-worthy that we can't put it past him he'd misjudge it again. It was a laughable judgement and I beaked him for it literally the entire offeason 

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If the videos are to be believed, it looked like Adams approached Pegula with the idea, and Pegula's interpretation seemed to be "if we do this, we're cup contender, not just going for the playoffs" and Adams agreed. 

 

6 minutes ago, chileanseabass said:

I bet none of them thought twice about it.  They were all convinced the team would be pushing for a playoff spot, so this was a no brainer... if all it took to get Hall to agree to come to Buffalo was a NMC, then everyone said "yes, of course!"

So that's kinda it then, right? If no one thought twice about the NMC at the time, then that's the bed that they made for themselves.

And so here we are.

[Gatorman0519]

“I want to be a part of a team that wins games”.. Hall... ouch. Can’t blame him though. 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, Gatorman0519 said:

“I want to be a part of a team that wins games”.. Hall... ouch. Can’t blame him though. 

I want a left winger who moves his feet coming out of the zone.  But i guess we can't all get what we want.

[Hoss]

Okay, GMKA is totally inept. 

 

[Nitro60]

Hall's stats from the past  three seasons (135 games 29 goals 79 assists)   compared to his prior three seasons (230 games 85 goals 126 assists) show guy on the decline and what the team got was  the best at this time.  Time to move on.  Losing Lazar stings.  I liked the kid.

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Okay, GMKA is totally inept. 

 

I think he addressed this in the press conference. There are conversations and there are serious discussions. He said they were lots of conversations and very little serious discussion until yesterday.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Once the Sabres sat him? Fine. Before that? The height of unprofessionalism. I find it doubtful the idea of being a Bruin only entered his mind last week. Scum.

To be fair, how could he know far in advance which teams would be interested in adding him? He may get to pick, but he can only pick from among teams putting forth offers.

[Hoss]

7 minutes ago, SDS said:

I think he addressed this in the press conference. There are conversations and there are serious discussions. He said they were lots of conversations and very little serious discussion until yesterday.

That’s on him.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

That’s on him.

No. It’s actually not. 

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

That’s on him.

He can’t fabricate serious interest out of thin air.