Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[Brawndo]

 

[SDS]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I think the trade is bad. You are searching for reasons to explain away why it wasn't better. I think the trade is bad and I think Adams did a poor job of getting nothing more than a 2nd for Taylor Hall while eating 4mil in salary. 

You can see this until you’re blue in the face and it does not mean you’re even one step closer to being correct.

If it’s true that Taylor Hall would only go to Boston, then go ahead and tell me how Adams should have gotten more from this trade? When there’s only one team the bargain with it’s just a big old game of chicken.

[Hoss]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

What I'm saying is, the hockey names you're likely talking about that I could be "missing" are almost certainly not only people I followed, but people who I paid money to for full access to the websites and tableaus they built for their latest stats databases and tools. So I don't think I'm missing anything. 

I ultimately found them uninteresting and often condescending. Once I stopped doing stats projects on here there was no need to get the platforms, and their tinny content wasn't worth the follow 

For the record, I view you as a very smart and good dude. I just think there are ways to learn things and have insightful conversations on hockey Twitter.

[Randall Flagg]

"I would have simply sat Taylor and said 'you will give me 3 more teams or you will sit in the box the rest of the year!'" 

Is this really how things work? It's that easy to make an ultimate determination that Kevyn should have bullied more than 1 team out of Hall? If Hall only wants to go to Boston, he has full leverage to only accept a trade to Boston lol

In that scenario, I'd rather trade Hall to Boston for a 2nd and bjork than have Hall anywhere near my team the rest of the year 

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

For the record, I view you as a very smart and good dude. I just think there are ways to learn things and have insightful conversations on hockey Twitter.

It could be that I just am put off by the character limit. I think worthwhile hockey takes are best fleshed out in a forum-like atmosphere, where ideas can be easily unraveled in long detail, and conversations (especially with several people) are  much easier to follow. 

Hockey twitter just smells bad to me but this could be why 

[SDS]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They all keep talking about some mythical auction for Hall's services.  There wasn't one.  As I just noted above, Lawton on the NHL Network said Ka got one team to negotiate with from Hall, instead of the 3-5 he should of to create a market/auction for his services.  That one was Boston and therefore we got fleeced.  Call it inexperience, call it incompetence, call it something else, but KA is not an NHL GM and should be gone as well. 

To be clear, I brought up the auction aspect in case there were a lot of potential bidders. I also brought up the fact that the NMC could also have a drastic affect by eliminating all other teams except one. I haven’t read the full topic, but virtually no one brought up the NMC aspect of this.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They all keep talking about some mythical auction for Hall's services.  There wasn't one.  As I just noted above, Lawton on the NHL Network said Ka got one team to negotiate with from Hall, instead of the 3-5 he should of to create a market/auction for his services.  That one was Boston and therefore we got fleeced.  Call it inexperience, call it incompetence, call it something else, but KA is not an NHL GM and should be gone as well. 

This could be true. I heard Edmonton (but no extension materialized) and NYI were also interested. That still doesn't make the trade good though. 

4 minutes ago, SDS said:

You can see this until you’re blue in the face and it does not mean you’re even one step closer to being correct.

If it’s true that Taylor Hall would only go to Boston, then go ahead and tell me how Adams should have gotten more from this trade? When there’s only one team the bargain with it’s just a big old game of chicken.

say*

I don't think you're correct either. It's like you forgot what the very message board you created is mainly for, fans sharing their opinions about team moves.

I think Adams did a poor job. This is my opinion, I am of the opinion that Adams should have gotten more. I think in my personal opinion that there were ways to get more. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They all keep talking about some mythical auction for Hall's services.  There wasn't one.  As I just noted above, Lawton on the NHL Network said Ka got one team to negotiate with from Hall, instead of the 3-5 he should of to create a market/auction for his services.  That one was Boston and therefore we got fleeced.  Call it inexperience, call it incompetence, call it something else, but KA is not an NHL GM and should be gone as well. 

If Hall said "I will only report to Boston" — which was his right — then Adams did a helluva job getting a 2nd out of them.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

This could be true. I heard Edmonton (but no extension materialized) and NYI were also interested. That still doesn't make the trade good though. 

Interested parties, I'm sure 6 or 8 teams kicked the tires, but if Hall only gave KA Boston to actually negotiate with then the calls from the other teams are sadly meaningless.  

 

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

"I would have simply sat Taylor and said 'you will give me 3 more teams or you will sit in the box the rest of the year!'" 

Is this really how things work? It's that easy to make an ultimate determination that Kevyn should have bullied more than 1 team out of Hall? If Hall only wants to go to Boston, he has full leverage to only accept a trade to Boston lol

In that scenario, I'd rather trade Hall to Boston for a 2nd and bjork than have Hall anywhere near my team the rest of the year 

You can take this one step further and if the Sabres get nothing for Hall other than “I won’t be bullied“, then this would be viewed as horrible asset mismanagement.

Although I am guessing on the reaction, I think there’s a lot of data to support it, I am deeply skeptical of any analysis that always finds fault with one side, regardless of their actions.

Making a claim that we should’ve accepted zero for Taylor Hall to make a principle stance is the best way forward to help this hockey team is highly questionable.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Interested parties, I'm sure 6 or 8 teams kicked the tires, but if Hall only gave KA Boston to actually negotiate with then the calls from the other teams are sadly meaningless.  

If that is the case, I don't think it was, then we treat Hall the same way we think of Krueger. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If Hall said "I will only report to Boston" — which was his right — then Adams did a helluva job getting a 2nd out of them.

LOL, Boston still had to get a deal done.  KA got a 3rd and 5th for Staal.  No way even he'd would have accepted a 3rd for Hall.  A 2nd was the absolute minimum to get a deal done.

[Brawndo]

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If that is the case, I don't think it was, then we treat Hall the same way we think of Krueger. 

I agree

[SDS]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This could be true. I heard Edmonton (but no extension materialized) and NYI were also interested. That still doesn't make the trade good though. 

say*

I don't think you're correct either. It's like you forgot what the very message board you created is mainly for, fans sharing their opinions about team moves.

I think Adams did a poor job. This is my opinion, I am of the opinion that Adams should have gotten more. I think in my personal opinion that there were ways to get more. 

That’s fine. But I also know that these opinions are extremely vague and unsupported by facts surrounding the situation. We have tons of community members like that. I didn’t think you were one of them.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Brawndo said:

 

Hall is dead to me as a player.

[dudacek]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

LOL, Boston still had to get a deal done.  KA got a 3rd and 5th for Staal.  No way even he'd would have accepted a 3rd for Hall.  A 2nd was the absolute minimum to get a deal done.

Please. Buffalo had to get a deal done. Boston did not.

What leverage did Adams have under the scenario?

[SDS]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Hall is dead to me as a player.

It didn’t take a hockey savant to see this as a possibility. 😉

[Doohicksie]

27 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

The part that seems to be pissing people off as I skim this thread is trading Lazar for Bjork. To me, these are just a couple of JAGs, the real deal is a second for Hall. One is 26 the other 24, perhaps the 26 year old is a little more useful and made the Bruins feel better. 

...this year.  One thing that seems to get people's dander up is the value of players traded RIGHT NOW.  The Sabres are not in the hunt right now. 

Lazar has become a fan favorite for his work ethic, his willingness to play just about any role and use his talent to his best advantage.  He was a first round pick but really he's somewhere between a 4th liner and odd man out.  Right now Lazar is the better player but right now doesn't matter.

People project out and assume that Lazar will continue at his current level.  Maybe he will, maybe not.  I don't think he's got any upside at this point.  He's a known quantity.  And while that comforts some, I want the Sabres to improve, not stay the same.

Bjork has more of a chance to improve going forward.  KA didn't trade for this year's Bjork, he traded for the projection of future Bjork.

And even then I don't know that they even traded for Bjork as much as salary.  The whole point of Lazar versus Bjork in the framework of this trade was for Boston to shed a bit of salary to get under the cap (they are $127,896 under after the trade).  That's probably the entire reason for including Lazar and Bjork in this trade and here we are trying to read more into it.

People are losing their minds that Bjork costs $800k more than Lazar and we now have to pay him through 2023.  Hell we're paying Cody Hodgson almost $800k per year for the same term to not be on the team.

I think the Lazar-Bjork aspect of the trade is in the noise, they were just traded to get the Bruins under the salary cap.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, SDS said:

That’s fine. But I also know that these opinions are extremely vague and unsupported by facts surrounding the situation. We have tons of community members like that. I didn’t think you were one of them.

It's a freaking trade thread. A trade that is not even 12 hours old, I have very limited facts just like everyone but it appears that Boston was the team Hall was interested in. I still think it is a bad trade even with that restriction, just like the ROR trade was bad even with the Pegula Bonus Restriction. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

46 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

OK, Mr. Smarty-Pants, but the question remains:  do you think Lazar-for-Bjork was something the Bruins made the Sabres do, or vice-versa?

You're not asking me, but considering that there is some history here, I would say it would be more likely that the Sabres asked for Bjork and the Bruins said okay for Lazar.  Not sure if it is ever as plain and simple as one team saying you do this for that.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Do you have an answer to anything I posted in this topic? can you explain why, after Hall services have been available for the last month, that this was the offer that was taken? Do you have an answer for why no one else bid a larger amount?

Do you know how much the NMC affected this?

Listening to the Instigators it sounds like Hall was driving the bus because of his NMC. Hall chose Boston. Also the Bjork-Lazar move was a cap swap to fit Hall into the Bruins roster. 

[dudacek]

17 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

 

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Listening to the Instigators it sounds like Hall was driving the bus because of his NMC. Hall chose Boston. Also the Bjork-Lazar move was a cap swap to fit Hall into the Bruins roster. 

Watch the clip Brawndo posted. Taylor Hall drove this trade to where he wanted to go.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Listening to the Instigators it sounds like Hall was driving the bus because of his NMC. Hall chose Boston. Also the Bjork-Lazar move was a cap swap to fit Hall into the Bruins roster. 

I know an angry fan base loves a good ass kicking opportunity, but sometimes it is just Occam‘s razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Please. Buffalo had to get a deal done. Boston did not.

What leverage did Adams have under the scenario?

A twitter report mentioned above basically confirmed what Lawton said.  KA got other offers for Hall, but Hall only would accept going to Boston.  This is where KA failed in this process.  He did it backwards.  He got the offers first and then let Hall pick the destination.  Instead he should have gotten a list of 3-5 places Hall would go and then taken the best offer from those places.   

If I had to guess, Boston 2nd was the minimum KA would accept to even bring an offer to Hall.