Don Granato as a HC

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, realtruelove said:

So you have a higher standard than winning?  

They have a losing record under Granato and Ullmark is bailing them out.   They're scoring more but still giving up way too many high danger chances.   That's fixable with the right coach.   Can Donny fix hit?   They haven't improved in that area.

[Marvin]

Here comes the gauntlet.  Now we will see the real mettle of this team.

[Radar]

27 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

That's the job of the GM, I'm not privy to those conversations.   Do you trust Adams to make the right hire?

I trust him more than us on this forum. As you say we're not privy to discussions. Some posters post like they are. I will give KA at least this off season. I wanted more experience in his place but he's there so I'm not going to question him just because he wouldn't have been my first choice. Frankly the Hall trade I have no problem with. That seems to be the biggest question some have and are so certain we could have got a better return. I.I'm sure KA turned down better deals just to anger us.

 

 

 

[dudacek]

I’m probably artificially inflating this, but the way they play in these six games against the Bruins carries meaning to me.

[JoeSchmoe]

Q. What available coach would have done more with this shell of a roster in less time than Granato? 

A. There isn't one.

It's a small sample size we're working with, but if the team finishes out the season playing as well as they are now, you have to give Granato the job. 

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

They're scoring more but still giving up way too many high danger chances. 

McCabe being out and Irwin being in must be a large part of this. Bryson is learning on the job and Dahlin is rightly focusing on getting his offense back right now.

[Flashsabre]

Here’s the thing, they don’t have to do anything today. They have 15 more games, many against playoff teams that the Sabres are currently 1-17 against.

 

I have no feeling one way or the other. 15 games and their outcome will play a huge factor in not only fans opinions but in the front office’s as well.

 

There is no doubt the kids look much better which is great but let’s see how they do against the big boys down the stretch.

[JoeSchmoe]

8 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Here’s the thing, they don’t have to do anything today. They have 15 more games, many against playoff teams that the Sabres are currently 1-17 against.

 

I have no feeling one way or the other. 15 games and their outcome will play a huge factor in not only fans opinions but in the front office’s as well.

 

There is no doubt the kids look much better which is great but let’s see how they do against the big boys down the stretch.

Agreed, but lets keep in mind that:

-Eichel who was figuring on 50% of all goals last year is not in the lineup

 -We lost an $8m free agent (albeit an underperforming one)

-We have a career AHL'r in backup goal

-Our defense is learning on the job after being handcuffed the last two years

 

[pi2000]

3 hours ago, Radar said:

I trust him more than us on this forum. As you say we're not privy to discussions. Some posters post like they are. I will give KA at least this off season. I wanted more experience in his place but he's there so I'm not going to question him just because he wouldn't have been my first choice. Frankly the Hall trade I have no problem with. That seems to be the biggest question some have and are so certain we could have got a better return. I.I'm sure KA turned down better deals just to anger us.

 

 

 

I lost trust when he let RK stick around too long.   Coach Donny knew right away what needed to be fixed.   The fact that KA didn't realize this sooner is a major red flag when it comes to his ability to judge coaching candidates.

[Radar]

4 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I lost trust when he let RK stick around too long.   Coach Donny knew right away what needed to be fixed.   The fact that KA didn't realize this sooner is a major red flag when it comes to his ability to judge coaching candidates.

 

He did drag it longer than most wanted but in all honesty it didn't really matter season wise.

[Stoner]

7 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Q. What available coach would have done more with this shell of a roster in less time than Granato? 

A. There isn't one.

It's a small sample size we're working with, but if the team finishes out the season playing as well as they are now, you have to give Granato the job. 

No you don't. Not if you're smart.

7 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Here’s the thing, they don’t have to do anything today. They have 15 more games, many against playoff teams that the Sabres are currently 1-17 against.

 

I have no feeling one way or the other. 15 games and their outcome will play a huge factor in not only fans opinions but in the front office’s as well.

 

There is no doubt the kids look much better which is great but let’s see how they do against the big boys down the stretch.

There's no stretch.

[Doohicksie]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

They have a losing record under Granato and Ullmark is bailing them out.   They're scoring more but still giving up way too many high danger chances.   That's fixable with the right coach.   Can Donny fix hit?   They haven't improved in that area.

Losing record, yes, but the play of the team has steadily improved since he took over.  Let's wait and see.  I'm pretty sure he will continue to fix things the team was doing wrong under Krueger.  Since breaking the streak they've been on a 105 point per 82 game pace without Eichel.... can he continue with a larger sample size? 

5 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I lost trust when he let RK stick around too long.   Coach Donny knew right away what needed to be fixed.   The fact that KA didn't realize this sooner is a major red flag when it comes to his ability to judge coaching candidates.

You don't know what the politics were between KA and TPeg.

[LabattBlue]

7 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

It's a small sample size we're working with, but if the team finishes out the season playing as well as they are now, you have to give Granato the job. 

Yes!  Don’t even bother interviewing anyone else.  Terry, Kim and Kevyn would like you to meet them outside the KBC at noon for a group hug! 

[darksabre]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m probably artificially inflating this, but the way they play in these six games against the Bruins carries meaning to me.

I'm looking at it like it's the Dignity Playoffs.

Put up a good fight against the Bruins in this "series" and I'll be pretty happy.

Also, I recommend giving Granato's interview on WGR this morning a listen. I don't know if he's the right coach long term, but he sure seems to have the right approach with the younger players in the short term.

[Scottysabres]

Tonight will lend further credence to whether or not he will be a serious candidate for the HC position.

If he can position his youth to take advantage of Boston's weakened back end and win the game, it will add additional evidence he should be considered.

I've already called it, Buf 3 - Bos 2 for tonight's tilt. I am hopeful my hunch is correct.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Scottysabres

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m probably artificially inflating this, but the way they play in these six games against the Bruins carries meaning to me.

Why shouldn't it? Bruins are fighting to stay in the playoffs. Beating them would mean plenty.

[Sabre fan]

Not sure how "fair" it is to judge TG as coach when he is missing Jack, McCabe and Borgen who obviously were all a huge part of the team moving forward. From what I understand we are playing mostly playoff teams (Washington Pittsburg Boston & islanders) coming up so we'll see how the team makes out...should be interesting

[tom webster]

The current schedule during the Pandemic has left little time for practicing or installing any system. To credit DG for anything other then letting them play and loosening things up is nonsense and no one would agree more then the coach himself.

That said, I think he deserves a chance provided he is willing to bring in a veteran staff that can help him and that he is open to listening to all the new data that is available.  History has shown that experienced coaches, inexperienced coaches, who knows? They all get fired eventually.

[Doohicksie]

12 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

Not sure how "fair" it is to judge TG as coach when he is missing Jack, McCabe and Borgen who obviously were all a huge part of the team moving forward. From what I understand we are playing mostly playoff teams (Washington Pittsburg Boston & islanders) coming up so we'll see how the team makes out...should be interesting

Who's TG?  (His first name is Don.) 

You your point, though, Granato is an interim coach.  He's not the incumbent, he's the caretaker.  At the end of the season a HC will be hired.  The assumption is that it won't be DG.  For DG to enter the conversation he has to prove himself by exceeding expectations.  He is not the expected candidate who will only lose the job if he fails; he's the temp worker who will only be considered as the permanent replacement if he succeeds... with the roster at his disposal.  No Jack?  No Jake?  No Will?  Cry me a river.  He has to build his reputation with what he's got to work with. 

If he can post a 90-100 point pace starting from the end of the losing streak, then he's a candidate.  Since the streak ended the Sabres are on a 105 points per 82 game pace (with a very small sample size).  Show us what you got, Donny.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Doohickie

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I lost trust when he let RK stick around too long.   Coach Donny knew right away what needed to be fixed.   The fact that KA didn't realize this sooner is a major red flag when it comes to his ability to judge coaching candidates.

While you are right that he waited too long with Ralph K, you're jumping to conclusions with the rest.

At the end of January, the Sabres were 4/4/2, and no one was thinking about firing the coach.

Adams had never fired his coach before, he liked him personally, the owners loved him, the players seemed to like him, the team was without its starting goalie and mostly without its franchise player and both the team and the coach had been wracked with COVID.

Krueger was fired 18 games later.

And Adams may have learned things from the experience that will help in dealing with future coaching decisions.

[Stoner]

46 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The current schedule during the Pandemic has left little time for practicing or installing any system. To credit DG for anything other then letting them play and loosening things up is nonsense and no one would agree more then the coach himself.

That said, I think he deserves a chance provided he is willing to bring in a veteran staff that can help him and that he is open to listening to all the new data that is available.  History has shown that experienced coaches, inexperienced coaches, who knows? They all get fired eventually.

Good point on practice time. The other anomaly I wonder about is when was the last time someone coached a Sabres game to win it — serious video study of the opponent, giving the team a specific game plan for a specific opponent, the nuances of matching lines, strategy and tactics and all that, etc. I could be way off. But it just feels like we've been in this bizarro world of evaluating talent, establishing theoretical systems, building a culture and so on. Maybe I just miss the playoffs, when winning is the only thing.

[dudacek]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

Good point on practice time. The other anomaly I wonder about is when was the last time someone coached a Sabres game to win it — serious video study of the opponent, giving the team a specific game plan for a specific opponent, the nuances of matching lines, strategy and tactics and all that, etc. I could be way off. But it just feels like we've been in this bizarro world of evaluating talent, establishing theoretical systems, building a culture and so on. Maybe I just miss the playoffs, when winning is the only thing.

Please don't read this as an endorsement of Granato.

But he might be the most well-versed in the X&Os of any coach we had since Lindy. He's certainly the most experienced.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/104317/don-granato

[JoeSchmoe]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Yes!  Don’t even bother interviewing anyone else.  Terry, Kim and Kevyn would like you to meet them outside the KBC at noon for a group hug! 

I know what you're trying to say.

But with Granato, you'd have 25-30 games or so of real in game evidence of him turning the team around (provided the team continues to progress).

With an interview, you'd have a few hours of someone talking a bunch of BS about what he can do with a bunch of players he doesn't even know. 

[Thorner]

16 hours ago, Radar said:

Specifically who would you hire. Why? Is he wi!ling to come? How much would you pay? Ect,ect. I know I'm frustrated to but it's getting more frustrating with postings here. Guess I need to take a break.

I struggle with this line of thinking a bit, because I think it's fair to say - it's enough that we know KA has the connections, where we don't, to answer the questions you propose. It's hard to reasonably expect a poster to have those answers without having all the resources Kevyn does. But we know he does have them, so it's enough to say: find someone with more experience, if the opinion of the poster is they want someone with experience. 

- - -

Anyways, did people see the article on the front page today? Granato is the coach, I'd be pretty surprised if not. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Thorny

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I struggle with this line of thinking a bit, because I think it's fair to say - it's enough that we know KA has the connections, where we don't, to answer the questions you propose. It's hard to reasonably expect a poster to have those answers without having all the resources Kevyn does. But we know he does have them, so it's enough to say: find someone with more experience, if the opinion of the poster is they want someone with experience. 

- - -

Anyways, did people see the article on the front page today? Granato is the coach, I'd be pretty surprised if not. 

If this stripped down team plays well against the better teams in the brutal gauntlet of upcoming games Granato will probably be the coach next season. If the team folds against these more talented teams he will be gone and be replaced by a better known and experienced coach. 

As you and others have stated on a number of occasions the bigger issue is what is going to be done this offseason to add to the staff that includes the front office and scouting department. That is the starting point before the critical hockey decisions should be made. The disastrous belief that a shrunken organization can function as well as a typically staffed NHL organization was not only a horrible decision but it led to ruinous results.