Don Granato as a HC

[Doohicksie]

20 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

I call that coaching on the fly. His team is responding. They're seeing the fruits of what they are being asked to do, and trying like heck to do it.  Without a training camp, without practices, on a down trodden team that can only play for personal pride. Quite amazing they have any push back at all come the third given the circumstances. 

That's my concern though:  Does Granato have the ability to get ahead of the curve in terms of preparing for the next team?  Next year won't be like this year where you play a team two or three times in a row.  So if he has to face a team once to learn how to play them, he may never be more than a middling coach.  Maybe with a full off season and training camp he can get ahead of the curve.  Right now we just don't know.

[WildCard]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Everyone is a chance. Krueger clearly ignored Granato and that was a mistake. I honestly don't care who they hire necessarily because unless the team decides they will be better and unless the drafting continues it's slow improvement, coaching is a minor issue.

Everyone is a chance sure, but there are proven candidates that are much less of a chance (Gallant, Boudreau).

Coaching is 100% not minor. If anything Krueger taught us that.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

Everyone is a chance sure, but there are proven candidates that are much less of a chance (Gallant, Boudreau).

Coaching is 100% not minor. If anything Krueger taught us that.

Granato though has a lot of coaching experience, Krueger much less so. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

The problem is coaching in the NHL is akin to witchcraft.  No one is quite sure what needs to be said and taught but when it works, it’s a thing of beauty, when it doesn’t, you get Kruegered.  
 

So we could bring in the most savant of candidates but if the team doesn’t buy into what he’s selling, we are starting all over again. At least with Meatballs we have a known quantity albeit with perhaps a limited ceiling. 

I don't see the evidence for that. Why is Granato's ceiling limited?

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Yes, I was going to add something to that effect.  There are no guarantees that a Brind'amor or Gallant will connect with this team better than Meatballs has.  Personally I think if Granato is your man, you see if you can get him on a one year deal.  If he's successful you pick him up for a longer term.  If not you go through a search again next offseason.

That may send the wrong message to the players. Management isn't buying in so why should they?

[PromoTheRobot]

25 minutes ago, WildCard said:

A little more than Krueger sure, but not nearly enough for me to be confident in him; saying he should have an NHL level assistant indicates you aren't either. We can't afford to take a chance with this hire, and Granato is a chance.

You're taking a chance with every hire.

[WildCard]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You're taking a chance with every hire.

 

21 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Everyone is a chance sure, but there are proven candidates that are much less of a chance (Gallant, Boudreau).

Coaching is 100% not minor. If anything Krueger taught us that.

 

[Doohicksie]

11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't see the evidence for that. Why is Granato's ceiling limited?

That may send the wrong message to the players. Management isn't buying in so why should they?

On the contrary, they seem to respond well to Granato, it would be an incentive to the team to work hard and win to earn him an extension.

[Randall Flagg]

It is incredibly easy to imagine us starting out slow next year, and looking back with disgust and disbelief at the idea that we needed to keep Granato for going 7-11-3 (plus whatever our record in the last 7 games is) in Spring 2021, how could we ever have thought this was okay? 

Don may be the right guy, but it's a riskier hire than at least some of the available names. 

[WildCard]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

It is incredibly easy to imagine us starting out slow next year, and looking back with disgust and disbelief at the idea that we needed to keep Granato for going 7-11-3 (plus whatever our record in the last 7 games is) in Spring 2021, how could we ever have thought this was okay? 

Don may be the right guy, but it's a riskier hire than at least some of the available names. 

Right exactly. And he's not going to be fired anytime soon either, we will be with our next coach for 2-3 years and we're out of time we can waste with our younger core.

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

On the contrary, they seem to respond well to Granato, it would be an incentive to the team to work hard and win to earn him an extension.

Is it the Sabres responding well to Granato or the other team not being able to take the Sabres serious in the last game of a set until they've dug themselves too big of a hole to get out of?

Probably a mix of both.

This team has had btb wins exactly twice this season and neither of those were a 2 game sweep of a single opponent.  It's certainly more entertaining but without being able to have a single 2 game sweep the entire season, is it anything more than finding a more entertaining way to still be the same?  Really would be nice to have Ullmark healthy to guage how much improvement there actually is.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

Everyone is a chance sure, but there are proven candidates that are much less of a chance (Gallant, Boudreau).

Coaching is 100% not minor. If anything Krueger taught us that.

I’m not sure history bears this out. There has to be some research available on the likelihood of success when hiring experienced versus inexperienced coaches. I know in football very few coaches have success in more then one place. Shula, Reid probably a few others.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

A lot of my faith in this team is the assumption that KA has managed to get the Pegulas to back off from driving hockey ops decisions.  I hope I'm right.

Apparently we are waiting on Rutherford to know that

[WildCard]

17 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I’m not sure history bears this out. There has to be some research available on the likelihood of success when hiring experienced versus inexperienced coaches. I know in football very few coaches have success in more then one place. Shula, Reid probably a few others.

True, that is an interesting point. In the case of Gallant and Boudreau however they do have proven success in coaching a 2nd/3rd/etc team.

[woods-racer]

I'm fine if they give Granato a chance. 

I'm also fine if the give a well seasoned highly respected coach a chance.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

 

 

So why are coaches like Boudreau, Gallant and Julien even available?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

A little more than Krueger sure, but not nearly enough for me to be confident in him; saying he should have an NHL level assistant indicates you aren't either. We can't afford to take a chance with this hire, and Granato is a chance.

I understand the hesitancy about Granato being named as the HC. I attribute much of the skepticism because he isn't one of the familiar names associated with the yearly musical chair shuffling of coaches. One of the questions directed to any candidate for the position is how is he going to maximize the talents of the players on the roster he will be handed? As an interim coach every player that he coached in his abbreviated stint has improved after taking over, some dramatically. Dahlin is an example of that. The roster that any new coach will be taking over will have a lot of young players. How will they respond to him? In my opinion the young players he has entrusted with playing time has rewarded that trust by steadily getting better. The near term success of this franchise is predicated on our young players developing to their potential at the fastest rate possible. He has already demonstrated an uncanny ability to work with young players. Another good trait that is evident about him is that he is willing to make changes in order to adjust to something that is not working. That's a different approach that the more rigid system coach that we had. I also like the way he has put together lines and the defensive pairings. He understands what he has and understands how to smartly put the pieces together.

Maybe in a few years when this roster is more mature he might not be the most suitable coach. But for this roster, even with some alterations, he has proven to me that he is the right person at the right time for the job. 

[PromoTheRobot]

56 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Is it the Sabres responding well to Granato or the other team not being able to take the Sabres serious in the last game of a set until they've dug themselves too big of a hole to get out of?

Probably a mix of both.

This team has had btb wins exactly twice this season and neither of those were a 2 game sweep of a single opponent.  It's certainly more entertaining but without being able to have a single 2 game sweep the entire season, is it anything more than finding a more entertaining way to still be the same?  Really would be nice to have Ullmark healthy to guage how much improvement there actually is.

I highly doubt that.

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So why are coaches like Boudreau, Gallant and Julien even available?

Because teams like us chose Ralph Krueger

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, WildCard said:

Because teams like us chose Ralph Krueger

I don't think you understood my post. If name coaches like those three are such slam dunks why are they even unemployed?

[WildCard]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't think you understood my post. If name coaches like those three are such slam dunks why are they even unemployed?

I did understand your post. Two things here though...

1) I never said they're slam dunks. I said they had a less likelihood of failing.

2) Teams make dumb decisions, i.e. hiring Krueger. There are other bad head coaches out there as well.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I did understand your post. Two things here though...

1) I never said they're slam dunks. I said they had a less likelihood of failing.

2) Teams make dumb decisions, i.e. hiring Krueger. There are other bad head coaches out there as well.

Kind of like Dan Bylsma. Cup winner, 6 playoff appearances, 9 playoff series wins. A real no-brainer.

[WildCard]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

Kind of like Dan Bylsma. Cup winner, 6 playoff appearances, 9 playoff series wins. A real no-brainer.

I never wanted Disco Dan I thought he sucked. Gallant went to an expansion team after success in Florida and lead them to the Cup and then 3rd in their division. Boudreau is has had very, very good success in two separate places winning the division 8/10 years in Washington and Anaheim and then took Minnesota to two straight playoff trips in his first year.

Not every experienced head coach ends up like Bylsma. They are not guaranteed to end up like Boudreau in a new place either (successful). But he's available, he's proven to have done it in two different places before, why would we not want him over Granato.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I highly doubt that.

The win over the Caps came after they'd had a 6 game winning streak.

The win over the Pens came after them being on a 5 game point streak.

The win over the B's came after them being on a 6 game winning streak.

Good teams overlook bad teams all the time.  They can usually still pull it out because they are the better team.  Especially when things are going good for them and they've pretty much had their way with the bad team earlier in the season, it isn't even remotely unheard of for the good team to let down.

[PromoTheRobot]

14 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I never wanted Disco Dan I thought he sucked. Gallant went to an expansion team after success in Florida and lead them to the Cup and then 3rd in their division. Boudreau is has had very, very good success in two separate places winning the division 8/10 years in Washington and Anaheim and then took Minnesota to two straight playoff trips in his first year.

Not every experienced head coach ends up like Bylsma. They are not guaranteed to end up like Boudreau in a new place either (successful). But he's available, he's proven to have done it in two different places before, why would we not want him over Granato.

Because unlike you I haven't written off Granato as a bad candidate. Don Granato has a ton of coaching experience, just not as a head coach in the NHL until now. He's got a lot of experience developing talent. Seeing how Thompson, Dahlin and Mittelstadt are playing like the awoke from a coma impresses me. Not every oasis in the desert is a mirage. Don't trick yourself into ignoring what's in front of you.

[WildCard]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Because unlike you I haven't written off Granato as a bad candidate. Don Granato has a ton of coaching experience, just not as a head coach in the NHL until now. He's got a lot of experience developing talent. Seeing how Thompson, Dahlin and Mittelstadt are playing like the awoke from a coma impresses me. Not every oasis in the desert is a mirage. Don't trick yourself into ignoring what's in front of you.

Where did I say I've written Granato off. I don't know how many times in my posts I can say the same thing: we can't afford to miss with this hire, and I think Boudreau/Gallant offer better odds at developing the Sabres into a winning team than Granato does. 

Maybe Granato is good, who knows. We've missed on every GM/HC hire since Pegula took over, and we don't have any more room for trying out experiments. A brand new, inexperienced GM with a HC to go with it (i.e. Murray, Botterill/Housley, Botteril/Krueger) doesn't exactly give me confidence. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by WildCard