Don Granato as a HC

[Eleven]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

We're not the ones who have to exercise caution, we're just spectators.  Many of us here follow the Sabres like a soap opera or a movie, and try to figure out the plot.  Because of our involvement I believe many of us project what we think the key players are thinking and begin to think we know what they think.  So we worry, for instance, that KA has already decided to keep Granato without doing his due diligence. 

I'm sure KA is exercising a helluva lot more caution than we're projecting on him.  That's part of the reason I labeled my post above as fan fiction in the Edit comment.  I know I was projecting, I was just having a little fun with it.  I'm also pretty sure that if this is an audition for Granato the judgment won't be complete until all the games play out as far as Adams is concerned.

Oh, I meant caution by the Sabres.  Sorry if that wasn't clear!

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Are Ellis and Girardi also auditioning for full-time gigs as well?

Seems to me that Ellis probably has more to do with Mittelstadt than any other factor. And how much influence has Girardi had on transforming Dahlin and Joki?

Whether they stay behind the bench or not, they certainly seem to be showing results in their roles as development coaches.

But do they want to be coaches or would they rather go back to player development?  Granato is listed as Interim Head Coach on the team's website, but Matt Ellis is still shown as Director of Player Development and Girardi as a Development Coach.  Being one of the coaches when Krueger was fired, it makes sense that Granato is listed as part of the coaching staff.  And with the interim tag there's the implication that there is no position for him in the organization if he is not promoted to HC.  But I could see Ellis and Girardi going back to their old gigs next year.  I think they are under the GM but not the HC.

To me there is every reason to believe Ellis and GIrardi will be back with the organization regardless of who the HC is.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

.

To me there is every reason to believe Ellis and GIrardi will be back with the organization regardless of who the HC is.

Agree wholeheartedly. I just wonder where their preference lies, and the team’s.

[Radar]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I know what you are saying and I'm not trying to distort what your point is. It makes sense. But for those who give the Rex comparison the reality is that the owner hired a known failed huckster in the league because he was more interested in getting attention for his nondescript franchise instead of doing what was required to rebuild a middling franchise. He tried to take the short cut and PR route instead of the more substantive route. What Pegula has learned with the McDermott hire is that substance trumps obnoxious style. The Rex hire was not simply a bad hire it was always a weird hire. When all is said and done the loud coach outhustled the befuddled owner and ended up pocketing a lot of money for his short and indistinguishable stint. If the owner wants to blame anyone for that setback he needs to look in the mirror. To his credit he corrected his own mistake and the rest is history.  

Agree totally. Plus Rex was a bad bead coach to begin with. I do be!ieve Rex was  Russ Brandon's honey to promote ticket sales but again ownership must take ownership.

[GoPre]

Granato as head coach?

 

[Norcal]

It's time for someone to do a deep dive into the coaching candidates available.

What makes Gallant or Boudreau or whoever else shakes loose the coach to take the team to the next level?

I will admit I was clamoring for an "experienced" coach like Boudreau or Gallant or someone to come in and snap these guys to it, get em set straight about the way to play the game! But the game, as much as it stays the same, has changed.

Today there are more young players than ever before and with analytics and video sessions the way they are coached has changed as well. 

Does that open the door for a different type of coach?

If not Granato should someone besides the big name vets be considered? Who? 

So many questions, hope Adams is asking them and more. 

 

[Brawndo]

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

 

So which coach from a bad team do we want?

Edited April 26, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[LabattBlue]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So which coach from a bad team do we want?

PTR...who is your top choice?

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

PTR...who is your top choice?

Granato

[PromoTheRobot]

50 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

PTR...who is your top choice?

Not Boudreau or Torts. Brind'amor would be great if he'd come. We have a young team. I like that Gallant built an instant cup contender from castoffs the first year in Vegas.

But I also think Granato is showing a lot. If the Sabres keep playing like this the last 7 games, I can't see replacing him. I think Jack would like playing under him.

The one I question have about Granato is can he do more than just let the bees swarm? Look at the game last night. The Sabres frustrated the Rags with their relentless forechecking. But they couldn't finish their chances. 

Then in our end that swarming defense backfired if we failed to clear the zone because the guys were exhausted and the Rangers skill took over.

It's not like Donny had the chance to install a system during a compressed season. They barely have time to practice. So the question with Granato is what can he do with a full training camp? But the way guys like Mittelstadt, Thompson and Dahlin emerged under him, like they never did under Krueger, Housley or any previous Sabres coach is impressive.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Carmel Corn]

Any potential HC candidate is going to ask Adams what are your plans for Jack Eichel and goaltending.  Granato may have a willingness to roll the dice in order to get his first HC gig.  An experienced HC will say "no thanks" unless they are convinced that Adams will address both situations.

[LabattBlue]

20 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

 Granato may have a willingness to roll the dice in order to get his first HC gig.  An experienced HC will say "no thanks" unless they are convinced that Adams will address both situations.

...and if this happens, IMO, the Sabres would be settling for a lesser candidate. 

[Doohicksie]

I have a major concern about Granato:  If you look at every team we play, they seem to have their way with us the first game or so, then even during the games the Sabres seem to figure it out and improve.  You might say this is evidence that Granato is a good coach, at least in terms of in-game and between-game adjustments.  I want to see him be able to look at the other team and know before we play them what the keys to winning are and to actually beat them right off the bat.

I can see a couple of mitigating factors and maybe they support Granato as full time HC, maybe not.  Some thoughts:

• The division the Sabres are in has some of the best teams in the league and they don't get to play outside of their division.
• Granato has had limited practice time and has had to shape this team to his liking on the fly.
• Granato himself is learning the specifics of being an NHL head coach on the fly.

I can see where all of these issues will resolve next season with a full training camp and a more normal schedule.  But will they?  I think Granato has done and admirable job with the team and if he's the HC he's the HC but I also think we can do better.  Just don't pick someone from left field again.

 

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I have a major concern about Granato:  If you look at every team we play, they seem to have their way with us the first game or so, then even during the games the Sabres seem to figure it out and improve.  You might say this is evidence that Granato is a good coach, at least in terms of in-game and between-game adjustments.  I want to see him be able to look at the other team and know before we play them what the keys to winning are and to actually beat them right off the bat.

I can see a couple of mitigating factors and maybe they support Granato as full time HC, maybe not.  Some thoughts:

• The division the Sabres are in has some of the best teams in the league and they don't get to play outside of their division.
• Granato has had limited practice time and has had to shape this team to his liking on the fly.
• Granato himself is learning the specifics of being an NHL head coach on the fly.

I can see where all of these issues will resolve next season with a full training camp and a more normal schedule.  But will they?  I think Granato has done and admirable job with the team and if he's the HC he's the HC but I also think we can do better.  Just don't pick someone from left field again.

 

The problem is coaching in the NHL is akin to witchcraft.  No one is quite sure what needs to be said and taught but when it works, it’s a thing of beauty, when it doesn’t, you get Kruegered.  
 

So we could bring in the most savant of candidates but if the team doesn’t buy into what he’s selling, we are starting all over again. At least with Meatballs we have a known quantity albeit with perhaps a limited ceiling. 

[Doohicksie]

Just now, inkman said:

The problem is coaching in the NHL is akin to witchcraft.  No one is quite sure what needs to be said and taught but when it works, it’s a thing of beauty, when it doesn’t, you get Kruegered.  
 

So we could bring in the most savant of candidates but if the team doesn’t buy into what he’s selling, we are starting all over again. At least with Meatballs we have a known quantity albeit with perhaps a limited ceiling. 

Yes, I was going to add something to that effect.  There are no guarantees that a Brind'amor or Gallant will connect with this team better than Meatballs has.  Personally I think if Granato is your man, you see if you can get him on a one year deal.  If he's successful you pick him up for a longer term.  If not you go through a search again next offseason.

[LGR4GM]

I think we need at least 1 NHL level assistant to help with some game planning if we keep meatball

[inkman]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Yes, I was going to add something to that effect.  There are no guarantees that a Brind'amor or Gallant will connect with this team better than Meatballs has.  Personally I think if Granato is your man, you see if you can get him on a one year deal.  If he's successful you pick him up for a longer term.  If not you go through a search again next offseason.

Knowing what we know about the Pegulas, they probably have a predetermination about who or what type should be their next coach.  Who knows if Granato is what they perceive they need. 

[WildCard]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think we need at least 1 NHL level assistant to help with some game planning if we keep meatball

That was the whole plan with Krueger too, didn't work.

[thewookie1]

39 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I have a major concern about Granato:  If you look at every team we play, they seem to have their way with us the first game or so, then even during the games the Sabres seem to figure it out and improve.  You might say this is evidence that Granato is a good coach, at least in terms of in-game and between-game adjustments.  I want to see him be able to look at the other team and know before we play them what the keys to winning are and to actually beat them right off the bat.

I can see a couple of mitigating factors and maybe they support Granato as full time HC, maybe not.  Some thoughts:

• The division the Sabres are in has some of the best teams in the league and they don't get to play outside of their division.
• Granato has had limited practice time and has had to shape this team to his liking on the fly.
• Granato himself is learning the specifics of being an NHL head coach on the fly.

I can see where all of these issues will resolve next season with a full training camp and a more normal schedule.  But will they?  I think Granato has done and admirable job with the team and if he's the HC he's the HC but I also think we can do better.  Just don't pick someone from left field again.

 

I will say this, we tend to get overwhelmed by teams when we start (Periods 1 & some of 2 in Game 1) then improve usually in the 3rd period thus finishing strong like last night. Then we tend to play very well in the following match up. I have no idea how to judge it but it is certainly a trend.

[woods-racer]

41 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I will say this, we tend to get overwhelmed by teams when we start (Periods 1 & some of 2 in Game 1) then improve usually in the 3rd period thus finishing strong like last night. Then we tend to play very well in the following match up. I have no idea how to judge it but it is certainly a trend.

I call that coaching on the fly. His team is responding. They're seeing the fruits of what they are being asked to do, and trying like heck to do it.  Without a training camp, without practices, on a down trodden team that can only play for personal pride. Quite amazing they have any push back at all come the third given the circumstances. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

That was the whole plan with Krueger too, didn't work.

Krueger hadn't been a full time hockey coach in almost a decade. At least Granato has been coaching steadily up to this point. 

[WildCard]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Krueger hadn't been a full time hockey coach in almost a decade. At least Granato has been coaching steadily up to this point. 

A little more than Krueger sure, but not nearly enough for me to be confident in him; saying he should have an NHL level assistant indicates you aren't either. We can't afford to take a chance with this hire, and Granato is a chance.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Knowing what we know about the Pegulas, they probably have a predetermination about who or what type should be their next coach.  Who knows if Granato is what they perceive they need. 

A lot of my faith in this team is the assumption that KA has managed to get the Pegulas to back off from driving hockey ops decisions.  I hope I'm right.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

A little more than Krueger sure, but not nearly enough for me to be confident in him; saying he should have an NHL level assistant indicates you aren't either. We can't afford to take a chance with this hire, and Granato is a chance.

Everyone is a chance. Krueger clearly ignored Granato and that was a mistake. I honestly don't care who they hire necessarily because unless the team decides they will be better and unless the drafting continues it's slow improvement, coaching is a minor issue.