Don Granato as a HC

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

They better keep Donny! 

 

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/how-don-granatos-career-path-might-fit-what-the-sabres-need-in-a-coach/article_74ceb8b4-b42b-11eb-acc1-133fb89aafa2.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

Very good article

If we decide on Granato however I would like to see at least one seasoned former head coach as an assistant. Hell, I'd even Quinn (The former Rangers coach) as an assistant if he ends up on outside looking in on HC jobs.

I don't know if his system would work in the playoffs but I do get a sense we'd at very least have a fun watch and development in all the youngsters.

[bob_sauve28]

43 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The takeaway is that the Granato coaching method is the opposite of the Krueger method. Granato was invested in his players while Krueger was invested in his system. If Granato would have coached this team right from the start it would have been a middle of the pack team instead of a bottom-feeding team. And as the article describes Granato's practices were more rigorous, purposeful and relevant to the games in contrast to Krueger's approach.  

So, if that is true, and we improve the goaltending for next seasons,  we would be a playoff team, IMO. 

[JohnC]

Just now, bob_sauve28 said:

So, if that is true, and we improve the goaltending for next seasons,  we would be a playoff team, IMO. 

If Jack and Reinhart are on the roster next season (???) and Ullmark is signed and a quality backup is brought in I would say that this is a lower tiered playoff team. I'm very much counting on the younger players continuing on with their progression. If Jack and Reinhart are not on the roster then the next question is what is the return?

[Marvin]

29 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Very good article

If we decide on Granato however I would like to see at least one seasoned former head coach as an assistant. Hell, I'd even Quinn (The former Rangers coach) as an assistant if he ends up on outside looking in on HC jobs.

I don't know if his system would work in the playoffs but I do get a sense we'd at very least have a fun watch and development in all the youngsters.

 

18 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

So, if that is true, and we improve the goaltending for next seasons,  we would be a playoff team, IMO. 

I don't know if I would go that far.  The fact that we were at all competitive with the #5 and #6 goalies on our depth chart and without 3 of our initial top 6 speaks well of the coaches and the players.  But could it have been done over 82 games instead of 21 with 2 actual NHL-level goaltenders and 6 legitimate middle-6 forwards as my top 6 instead (seems likely if both Eichel and Reinhart go)?  That is not at all clear to me.

[dudacek]

The proper conclusion to take from the Granato run is that particular group of kids has promise and many are ready for regular roles.

The reaction should be to bring the proper pieces in to augment and improve that. Counting on the group we saw to be a playoff contender simply by adding a goalie is utter folly.

It needed two top six forwards, two goalies, and a shutdown D at minimum.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The proper conclusion to take from the Granato run is that particular group of kids has promise and many are ready for regular roles.

The reaction should be to bring the proper pieces in to augment and improve that. Counting on the group we saw to be a playoff contender simply by adding a goalie is utter folly.

It needed two top six forwards, two goalies, and a shutdown D at minimum.

And that assumes no one is traded, except Risto.  Maybe Risto.

[Weave]

57 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The proper conclusion to take from the Granato run is that particular group of kids has promise and many are ready for regular roles.

The reaction should be to bring the proper pieces in to augment and improve that. Counting on the group we saw to be a playoff contender simply by adding a goalie is utter folly.

It needed two top six forwards, two goalies, and a shutdown D at minimum.

You responded before I could.  Utter folly is an apt description.  
 

I was reading a post in another thread (Thorny, maybe) talking about how Sabres mgt appeared to be expecting best case scenario with all of their decisions, and I thought this is no different than what alot of the fanbase seems to do, expect best case scenario for the kids, the lines, the goalies, the hired guns, the draft picks.  And right here in the next thread I open I read someone proclaiming this team a playoff team if only Granato had the reigns all season and we had another goalie.   You gotta be kidding me.

There is nfw this band of misfits goes from last overall easily to playoffs with a goalie and the coach we finished the season with. N. F. W.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Weave

[bob_sauve28]

Oh ya, a healthy Jack, NHL goaltending, the young guys continue to improve, maybe add some outside talent and this could be a playoff team. 
 

Goaltending is by far the most important position and we had the worst last year. Even without a healthy Eichel Ullmark keep  us close in games and won many. 
 

Add to that we get out of jail in this division we played in all year and of course we will be much, much improved. 
 

We finished in last place because at the most important position we had the worst the NHL could offer. 
 

No where in the above did I say  we win the cup with just better goaltending. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

You responded before I could.  Utter folly is an apt description.  
 

I was reading a post in another thread (Thorny, maybe) talking about how Sabres mgt appeared to be expecting best case scenario with all of their decisions, and I thought this is no different than what alot of the fanbase seems to do, expect best case scenario for the kids, the lines, the goalies, the hired guns, the draft picks.  And right here in the next thread I open I read someone proclaiming this team a playoff team if only Granato had the reigns all season and we had another goalie.   You gotta be kidding me.

There is nfw this band of misfits goes from last overall easily to playoffs with a goalie and the coach we finished the season with. N. F. W.

I didn't say that the Sabres would have made the playoffs if Granato was behind the bench at the start of the season and we had another goalie. (Not saying you said I did.) But I don't think that it is an outlandish projection to make that under him and with better goaltending even with an incomplete roster and with a normal schedule this team would have been at an 80-82 point level. That is significantly better than being at the bottom feeding level we were at this year. After the losing streak was broken and with minimal practice time this team was earning around a point a game (9-11-2) and it was done with third tier goalies. 

I said it before and I will say it again that if this offseason is handled smartly this team should be contending for a lower tier playoff spot. And it will be disappointing that at the minimum this team wasn't playing meaningful games up to the finish of the season. The starting point to that goal is solidifying the goaltending. 

[Radar]

I have no problem keeping Granato. I hope they extend Rhino. If Eichel is traded then they have to get a haul or I wait. We have a good year to allow him to get healthy and if he wants out then trade a healthy Eichel his value will only go up if he's known to be healthy. Trade Risto. To gut this team of its top two forwards could have negative effect on the development of Mitts,Cozens and Thompson.

[Doohicksie]

9 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I don't know if his system would work in the playoffs but I do get a sense we'd at very least have a fun watch and development in all the youngsters.

I will readily sacrifice a run at the playoffs next season if it means properly developing the current youth movement.  Oddly, I think developing the current youth movement without regard to the playoffs, might land the team in the playoffs.

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

I will readily sacrifice a run at the playoffs next season if it means properly developing the current youth movement.  Oddly, I think developing the current youth movement without regard to the playoffs, might land the team in the playoffs.

So what the Bills did their first time back

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

So what the Bills did their first time back

Who on the roster is ready to be our Josh Allen if we deal Jack and Sam?

[Doohicksie]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Who on the roster is ready to be our Josh Allen if we deal Jack and Sam?

Everyone does but..... don't sell Mitts short.  I think the guy is a warrior who's just now finding his game.

I also know the forum will laugh at that, but just see what he does next season.  He got a taste of what it takes to be a top six forward, I bet he works his ass off this offseason to improve his strength and conditioning.

[Marvin]

3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Everyone does but..... don't sell Mitts short.  I think the guy is a warrior who's just now finding his game.

I also know the forum will laugh at that, but just see what he does next season.  He got a taste of what it takes to be a top six forward, I bet he works his ass off this offseason to improve his strength and conditioning.

The Bills did it by accident with Tyrod Taylor, not Josh Allen.  Maybe Okposo is the Sabres version of TT.

[sabremike]

He's getting the job because it's the easiest and cheapest thing to do.

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Who on the roster is ready to be our Josh Allen if we deal Jack and Sam?

I know people from Buffalo really love the Bills and may have been raised more on football than hockey, but the sports are too different to make comparisons. 

Hockey is more of a team effort. Thats why the top QBs are always in Superbowl contention, whereas McDavid is lucky to win a round.

[PromoTheRobot]

11 hours ago, sabremike said:

He's getting the job because it's the easiest and cheapest thing to do.

And not because of the way he got our younger players to improve?

Edited May 17, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[thewookie1]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

Who on the roster is ready to be our Josh Allen if we deal Jack and Sam?

Actually Tyrod Taylor was the QB that year. Allen was draft after the drought breaking playoff appearance.

They were a scrappy group that pulled off a miracle after literally trading Dareus, Darby and Watkins and having almost 50mil in dead cap.

 

The Sabres don't have to trade their core pieces for mediocre talents which is certainly an advantage. Other than that our equivalent would be akin to a hodgepodge of hard working vets and youngsters that are backstopped by a solid goalie tandem sneaking into the playoffs in Game 82. Unlikely but not impossible. 

[Hoss]

4 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I know people from Buffalo really love the Bills and may have been raised more on football than hockey, but the sports are too different to make comparisons. 

Hockey is more of a team effort. Thats why the top QBs are always in Superbowl contention, whereas McDavid is lucky to win a round.

I would in no way say hockey is “more” of a team effort. They’re both extremely reliant on team efforts but in very different ways so the comparison still fails.

[PerreaultForever]

Seem to be reading a lot of articles about how good Granato is and so forth. Do the Sabres plant these?

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, Hoss said:

I would in no way say hockey is “more” of a team effort. They’re both extremely reliant on team efforts but in very different ways so the comparison still fails.

So we should probably stop comparing the Bills to the Sabres, then

[Radar]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Seem to be reading a lot of articles about how good Granato is and so forth. Do the Sabres plant these?

You want to think that? Or are you asking? Seems the content of the article is what really matters anyway. I'm assuming it was factual and not misleading.

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Actually Tyrod Taylor was the QB that year. Allen was draft after the drought breaking playoff appearance.

They were a scrappy group that pulled off a miracle after literally trading Dareus, Darby and Watkins and having almost 50mil in dead cap.

 

The Sabres don't have to trade their core pieces for mediocre talents which is certainly an advantage. Other than that our equivalent would be akin to a hodgepodge of hard working vets and youngsters that are backstopped by a solid goalie tandem sneaking into the playoffs in Game 82. Unlikely but not impossible. 

Granato's Sabres played at near .500 after the 18-game losing streak. Do that next year and your at least in contention.

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Granato's Sabres played at near .500 after the 18-game losing streak. Do that next year and your at least in contention.

Will next year's edition be better or worse?  On the plus side, Granato will have a full offseason to prepare and implement his system.  He will have some say in the makeup of the team (assuming a decent rapport with KA).  If KA does his job, there will be better goaltending.  With all that, they should be at least as good and probably better.

On the minus side, if they do in fact trade all three of JackSamRisto, that talent and experience is no longer on the bench.  I think Reino's contribution last year should not be overlooked; he was the workhorse of the Granato Sabres.  If he's gone, and Jack is gone, and there is no veteran replacement, then next man up is Mitts.  He's taken huge strides but expecting him to be a 1C for an entire season is folly.  At this stage of development, his absolute cap is 2C.

Of course on the other side of that minus side is the return from the JackSamRisto trades.  Do we get a not-quite-Eich-or-Sam-but-passable-veteran-1C in return?  I expect the return will primarily be prospects/young players, but somewhere they need to get a veteran center they can use for a year or two.

The point is that the Sabres might actually be worse next year than they were once Granato ended the losing streak.  You were right, Darcy, and you still are:  There will be suffering.