Don Granato as a HC

[Marvin]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Exactly. Because they tore it all down and got rid of all the slackers and prima donnas. Started a rebuild with attitude and effort as the core principle.  We should follow that path. and you can't do it building around the old core. 

Whatever their flaws, I think it is churlish bordering on slander to view Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen as slackers and prima-donnas.

For the first time since 2012-13, I think we actually have 6 defencemen AND 12 forwards who are better than borderline NHLers when healthy.  Seriously, if the team were healthy, the line-up wouldn't have at least one guy whose presence on the Sabres main roster would make me wince.  Raise an eyebrow?  Sure.  And even at their worst under Granato, I haven't laughed once at something the players did on the ice that was monumentally incompetent.  No team since 2012-3 has done that for me.

Rolston had a rebuilding team.  Nolan had a super-tanker.  Bylsma never had a fully competent defence.  Housley had 1 or 2 lines of forwards who got caved in nightly.  Krueger had at least 3 dubious forwards.  Only Rolston and Nolan had consistent goaltending.

None of Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, McCabe, Girgensons, and Okposo have played on a team with clear NHL-level competence at every position on the roster.  Sure, they might need a change of scenery, but many of the problems here were not their fault.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Whatever their flaws, I think it is churlish bordering on slander to view Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen as slackers and prima-donnas.

churlish slander. lol. give me a f'n break. 

[woods-racer]

33 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

churlish slander. lol. give me a f'n break. 

It's a very civilized response,  I thought.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

churlish slander. lol. give me a f'n break. 

Sorry.  That's how I talk.  That's how my wife talks.  That is how my siblings and cousins all talk.  That's how my friends talk.  If we are going to interact civilly on this board, you will need to get used to it.

Put simply: remember all the social outcasts from school.  Now think of the one person who was even beyond their pale.  That is I.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Marvin, Sabres Fan
Removed unnecessary details

[Doohicksie]

50 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

It's a very civilized response,  I thought.

I know.  Totally inappropriate for a hockey forum.  Next time Marvin should just crosscheck him in the kidneys to make his point.  That's the RIGHT way to play hockey (forum).

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, eman said:

I am betting Ottawa surpasses the Sabres easily in the upcoming season and the next few after that. Effort is never an issue with that club. DJ Smith is a good coach and their talent is progressing. They play a good brand of hockey and it's entertaining.

 

Surpasses the Sabres next season? They already surpassed us. We’re literally last. And it wasn’t an accident.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Sorry.  That's how I talk.  That's how my wife talks.  That is how my siblings and cousins all talk.  That's how my friends talk.  If we are going to interact civilly on this board, you will need to get used to it.

Put simply: remember all the social outcasts from school.  Now think of the one person who was even beyond their pale.  That is I.

Careful or I will have to stuff you in a locker. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

Surpasses the Sabres next season? They already surpassed us. We’re literally last. And it wasn’t an accident.

Yes, but I guess I meant they have a solid foundation to build off of and there is an expectation here (among some) that now that we have Kreuger gone all we need is a goalie and a healthy Jack and we will be fine. That's the point of disagreement. 

I still believe we've been trying to build this team the wrong way since Pegula bought it and I'm not sure that idea has changed.  

[Stoner]

9 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Sorry.  That's how I talk.  That's how my wife talks.  That is how my siblings and cousins all talk.  That's how my friends talk.  If we are going to interact civilly on this board, you will need to get used to it.

Put simply: remember all the social outcasts from school.  Now think of the one person who was even beyond their pale.  That is I.

Are there accusations of churlish slander at family gatherings? "That potato salad does NOT have Miracle Whip in it! Take it back, you churlish slanderer!"

[SwampD]

Shouldn’t it be libel?

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Shouldn’t it be libel?

Have you tasted the potato salad?

[Marvin]

True story:

My parent required us to look up the words ourselves to learn how they were spelled and learn their meaning; we were not allowed to ask my parents what a word was and what it meant unless we could not find it.  We had an unabridged American Heritage, so this was a rare occurrence.  As the oldest, it was my job to explain to the other kids what we heard.

There is a Daffy Duck - Porky Pig - The Dawg cartoon where The Dawg feigns crying to deceive Daffy into allowing himself to be caught.  Daffy asks him something like, "why the copious efflux of lacrimal fluid?"  I had to figure out how to spell copious, efflux, and lacrimal *and* to learn what they meant.

I was 8.

[eman]

13 hours ago, Hoss said:

Surpasses the Sabres next season? They already surpassed us. We’re literally last. And it wasn’t an accident.

I meant, in progressing. The Sabres may move forward next season (God willing finally!!!) but I just can't believe how Ottawa has progressed this season. Weren't they picked to basically finish last this season? I could be wrong there, but I know they were picked to finish near the bottom. They are playing decent, inspired hockey under DJ Smith and if they could get some goaltending (also injury prone and a revolving door) they could really make a move. Their young players come to play each and every shift and it's noticable. My hat is off to that organization. They took a lot of flak when tearing it down as well.

[JohnC]

47 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

True story:

My parent required us to look up the words ourselves to learn how they were spelled and learn their meaning; we were not allowed to ask my parents what a word was and what it meant unless we could not find it.  We had an unabridged American Heritage, so this was a rare occurrence.  As the oldest, it was my job to explain to the other kids what we heard.

There is a Daffy Duck - Porky Pig - The Dawg cartoon where The Dawg feigns crying to deceive Daffy into allowing himself to be caught.  Daffy asks him something like, "why the copious efflux of lacrimal fluid?"  I had to figure out how to spell copious, efflux, and lacrimal *and* to learn what they meant.

I was 8.

You must have been precocious. However, at 8 you would have had  difficulty spelling it in order to look it up.  🤡

[Hoss]

29 minutes ago, eman said:

I meant, in progressing. The Sabres may move forward next season (God willing finally!!!) but I just can't believe how Ottawa has progressed this season. Weren't they picked to basically finish last this season? I could be wrong there, but I know they were picked to finish near the bottom. They are playing decent, inspired hockey under DJ Smith and if they could get some goaltending (also injury prone and a revolving door) they could really make a move. Their young players come to play each and every shift and it's noticable. My hat is off to that organization. They took a lot of flak when tearing it down as well.

I don’t know about projections but I do remember a fair amount of hope on the Ottawa end.

At this point as a Sabres fan I don’t really EXPECT to be better than anybody. We’ve been hot garbage for so long now.

[Marvin]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You must have been precocious. However, at 8 you would have had  difficulty spelling it in order to look it up.  🤡

Except for saying loudly, "supercaligragilisticexpialidocious", I was not really precocious.  (Yes, they made me look up "precocious" too when I barely knew the alphabet.)  I merely seemed like it because of my "tiger parents."  My parents were that precocious and expected us to be polyglots like they were.

I spent more time trying to figure out how to spell the words than I did learning their definition and how to use them.  Although I am hardly dumb, I am more well-educated and learned than smart.

There is a good reason why I have been in therapy for 30 years and likely will be for the rest of my life.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Except for saying loudly, "supercaligragilisticexpialidocious", I was not really precocious.  (Yes, they made me look up "precocious" too when I barely knew the alphabet.)  I merely seemed like it because of my "tiger parents."  My parents were that precocious and expected us to be polyglots like they were.

I spent more time trying to figure out how to spell the words than I did learning their definition and how to use them.  Although I am hardly dumb, I am more well-educated and learned than smart.

There is a good reason why I have been in therapy for 30 years and likely will be for the rest of my life.

I say this with sincerity: I hope you are reasonably happy to live a satisfying life. To your credit you have put in the hard work to introspectively examine yourself in order to pursue a more positive life. I wish you the best. 

[Radar]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I say this with sincerity: I hope you are reasonably happy to live a satisfying life. To your credit you have put in the hard work to introspectively examine yourself in order to pursue a more positive life. I wish you the best. 

I second that.

[North Buffalo]

4 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

True story:

My parent required us to look up the words ourselves to learn how they were spelled and learn their meaning; we were not allowed to ask my parents what a word was and what it meant unless we could not find it.  We had an unabridged American Heritage, so this was a rare occurrence.  As the oldest, it was my job to explain to the other kids what we heard.

There is a Daffy Duck - Porky Pig - The Dawg cartoon where The Dawg feigns crying to deceive Daffy into allowing himself to be caught.  Daffy asks him something like, "why the copious efflux of lacrimal fluid?"  I had to figure out how to spell copious, efflux, and lacrimal *and* to learn what they meant.

I was 8.

Yeh my Dad was and English Prof, Mom got her Masters in French lit before changing profession... they tried the above with us.  Our response was how can we look it up when we dont know how to spell it... called it a stupid idea... and to piss them off we'd say a phrase like I ain't got none... or other bastardized idioms... but we read a lot so Dad couldnt complain... his strategy for attention was to put a book on table and the first one done discussed it with him over dinner.  The others had to just listen to the conversation 'till we read the book.

Edited May 2, 2021 by North Buffalo

[Torpedo Forecheck]

Anyone notice?

lost 4 in a row, 6 of 7, and 7 of 9. 

finish with 4 games against teams they are 1-11 against this year

if they lose the last 4 games, RK record is 6-18-4, DG record is 7-18-3

It really sneaks up on you

[Doohicksie]

BuT tHeY aRe PlAyInG bEtTeR!

[Torpedo Forecheck]

33 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

BuT tHeY aRe PlAyInG bEtTeR!

I'm guessing that he won't be the next coach, and the decision just got alot simpler for Pegulas.

[Thorner]

40 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

BuT tHeY aRe PlAyInG bEtTeR!

I mean, they probably are, and there's an argument to be made (and is definitely being made) that Granato can't be judged on Wins and Losses right now, because of all the contextual factors (even though Ralph dealt with a fair few of those, himself. But I digress).

I suppose for me then it comes to the fact that I think at the end of the day, wins and losses are the only thing worth judging the coach on. At least, it's the biggest factor, by far, in any usual circumstance. If, then, we can't judge Granato on wins and losses, that's fine, but then for me that leaves him more less at square 1 - an unknown. The fact that the kids are playing, and playing reasonably well, can easily be factors potentially attributed to base level competence (that the kids are playing, and in key roles) and a function of playing loose and easy to finish out the season.

The record is objectively bad. At best in the grand scheme of things we can call that a write-off, and I'm then left scouring for compelling reasons for why such an in-demand job should be given to what, at this time, amounts to a dice-roll over a more proven, accomplished candidate, of which there are a few on the market.

 

[Torpedo Forecheck]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I mean, they probably are, and there's an argument to be made (and is definitely being made) that Granato can't be judged on Wins and Losses right now, because of all the contextual factors (even though Ralph dealt with a fair few of those, himself. But I digress).

I suppose for me then it comes to the fact that I think at the end of the day, wins and losses are the only thing worth judging the coach on. At least, it's the biggest factor, by far, in any usual circumstance. If, then, we can't judge Granato on wins and losses, that's fine, but then for me that leaves him more less at square 1 - an unknown. The fact that the kids are playing, and playing reasonably well, can easily be factors potentially attributed to base level competence (that the kids are playing, and in key roles) and a function of playing loose and easy to finish out the season.

The record is objectively bad. At best in the grand scheme of things we can call that a write-off, and I'm then left scouring for compelling reasons for why such an in-demand job should be given to what, at this time, amounts to a dice-roll over a more proven, accomplished candidate, of which there are a few on the market.

 

Good point. At least young guys can improve and get better.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Torpedo Forecheck

[Sabre fan]

does anybody really think they would or can be any better under another coach? I mean I get that next year a new coach will start fresh with a (hopefully) healthy Jack and (hopefully) 2 NHL goalies and (hopefully) a re-signed McCabe and maybe some new faces like (hopefully) some bangers (and even one fighter) on the 4th line and (hopefully) lose Eakin Bjork Caggiula Rieder (I love Oko but hopefully he will retire). With these changes the new coach will look great no doubt but does DG not deserve a shot with this new improved lineup?