The Mittelstadt Line

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I thought Joki was excellent in the 3rd period last night -- cool as a cucumber under pressure, and beautiful skating and passing.

Joki/Dahlin are playing with a single mind out there lately.  Beautiful to watch.  They seem to naturally read off each other.

[Randall Flagg]

I expect to have zero, and I mean ZERO, people on my side here.

I would expose Olofsson in a 4-4-1 setup before exposing Will Borgen. The decision would be easy.

Of course, I would try to move deck chairs so I didn't lose any of those guys, but.

[GASabresIUFAN]

31 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I expect to have zero, and I mean ZERO, people on my side here.

I would expose Olofsson in a 4-4-1 setup before exposing Will Borgen. The decision would be easy.

Of course, I would try to move deck chairs so I didn't lose any of those guys, but.

Let me see if I understand you.  You'd keep Borgen, a 24 year old D with 8 games of NHL experience, over one of Olofsson, our 2nd leading scorer this season with 33 goals in 102 career games, Mittelstadt, a former top 8 pick with 141 career games and who is now playing to his potential, Thompson and Asplund, who are also emerging. 

Thankfully your not the GM.  I like Borgen as well.  If management likes him as much as you do, they can use some of the draft capital KA just acquired to keep him by a side deal with Seattle. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Randall Flagg]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Let me see if I understand you.  You'd keep Borgen, a 24 year old D with 8 games of NHL experience, over one of Olofsson, our 2nd leading scorer this season with 33 goals in 102 career games, Mittelstadt, a former top 8 pick with 141 career games and who is now playing to his potential, Thompson and Asplund, who is also emerging. 

Yup.

I liked Numminen and Tallinder a lot better than Kotalik 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[Randall Flagg]

GMs don't build elite teams based on treating what they have in front of them today as what they look like today. Great GMs that make great moves and build great teams make those decisions before they're obvious, and I'm hitching my wagon to Will being one of those decisions

I can just tell

[rakish]

Zero?

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Yup.

I liked Numminen and Tallinder a lot better than Kotalik 

Tallinder and Numminen were established or proven veteran players when Buffalo made it's run 16 years ago.  Borgen maybe Tallinder-ish in style of play, but he isn't Tallinder in ability.  Not an apples to apples comparison.

9 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

GMs don't build elite teams based on treating what they have in front of them today as what they look like today. Great GMs that make great moves and build great teams make those decisions before they're obvious, and I'm hitching my wagon to Will being one of those decisions

I can just tell

I'm glad you are clairvoyant.  

[rakish]

20 minutes ago, rakish said:

Zero?

How many games at forward would Borgan have to play to be called a forward?

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, rakish said:

How many games at forward would Borgan have to play to be called a forward?

That's actually a pretty clever point...

[Jävə Keith]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

I expect to have zero, and I mean ZERO, people on my side here.

I would expose Olofsson in a 4-4-1 setup before exposing Will Borgen. The decision would be easy.

Of course, I would try to move deck chairs so I didn't lose any of those guys, but.

Agree on Exposing Olofsson over Borgen. Specifically because of the Identity GMKA keeps talking about wanting Sabres to possess.  Olofsson is a one-trick pony with his elite shot, but spends ALL of his time skating around the perimeter. Does he even know how to hit? How to out-compete the guy across from him?  He is useless in 5 on 5 because of this. And is why all of his goals come on the power play (which are also trending down as most teams have figured him out).

Borgen on the other hand is a solid reliable D-man with some jam & is a real compliment to be lined up with the more offensive D-men. I see more compete & a stronger future role in Borgen than Olofsson. (I still like VO, just see him as more expendable/replaceable)

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the problem with your protecting Borgen over VO.  Not only are you making VO available, but also likely Thompson and Asplund.  It's also terrible asset management.

If you place Thompson, Asplund, Borgen and Olofsson on the market who would have the highest trade value?  Like Olofsson followed by Thompson, Asplund and lastly Borgen.  Olofsson might be worth a 1st rd pick or a very good prospect.  Borgen is probably worth a 4th rd pick or less.  So you want to give Seattle our most consistent goal scorer for nothing, while retaining an aging prospect worth a 4th rd pick.  That makes no sense.  Even if the organization agreed with you they'd trade VO long before they expose him to the expansion draft and lose him for nothing.  

The other problem is what if Sea wants to go younger and cheaper.  Are you ok with losing Thompson, when he have no one else in the organization with his type of length and size?  

Edited April 15, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Curt]

The roster will not have all the same players when it comes time to make the real list.

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

GMs don't build elite teams based on treating what they have in front of them today as what they look like today. Great GMs that make great moves and build great teams make those decisions before they're obvious, and I'm hitching my wagon to Will being one of those decisions

I can just tell

Do you have more confidence in Will Borgen than Rasmus Dahlin? 

Aside from that, I don’t think it’s zany to protect WB over VO, but the caveat is we’d need to be adding a true top 6 player this offseason to take his place (which we do need anyway) 

[Randall Flagg]

38 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Do you have more confidence in Will Borgen than Rasmus Dahlin? 

Aside from that, I don’t think it’s zany to protect WB over VO, but the caveat is we’d need to be adding a true top 6 player this offseason to take his place (which we do need anyway) 

No, because Dahlin is safely protected while Will is in the fringe discussion. 

Either way, I could avoid this scenario really easily - Risto isnt' coming back, so just move him for something that doesn't need protection (or for a forward) BEFORE the expansion draft and then go 7-3-1, and then address any D deficiencies after the expansion draft 

[Taro T]

11 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I expect to have zero, and I mean ZERO, people on my side here.

I would expose Olofsson in a 4-4-1 setup before exposing Will Borgen. The decision would be easy.

Of course, I would try to move deck chairs so I didn't lose any of those guys, but.

If McCabe isn't coming back, & they'll know by the time they have to submit their protected list, would protect Bogen over Jokiharju & try to see if an incentive will get Miller to be the guy taken.  If he is coming back, still might go that direction, but if Will is exposed offer even slightly more to make Miller the guy taken.

Trading Olofsson is something to have on the table and suggested that in another thread.  But wouldn't protect only 4 F's as losing Asplund will end up hurting IMHO.

 

[spndnchz]

After that interview I see more expected changes coming. 

[dudacek]

Just now, spndnchz said:

After that interview I see more expected changes coming. 

Could you be more specific?

[spndnchz]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Could you be more specific?

@9 minutes   My pads are fkd right now he gives hints t➖3️⃣⬆️ That it’s not fone

[Doohicksie]

I don't dare call them the core; that word has a negative connotation on this forum.  Although you might say that Eichel and Reino and Skinner and Olofsson are key pieces to this team, the heart of this team, suddenly, the heart of this team seems to be the middle six:  the ATM line and Ruotsalainen-Cozens-Bjork.  It's certainly where the team's improvement is coming from right now.  And on the D side, the mantle is being passed from McCabe-Risto to Dahlin-Joki.

I look forward to getting McCabe and Jack back, but seeing what Granato is doing with those 8 players, I really think the Sabres will be okay with these young pups.

[Eleven]

I think I want to call them the Coneheads like Brooks called that line on the '80 team.

[JohnC]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:12 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the problem with your protecting Borgen over VO.  Not only are you making VO available, but also likely Thompson and Asplund.  It's also terrible asset management.

If you place Thompson, Asplund, Borgen and Olofsson on the market who would have the highest trade value?  Like Olofsson followed by Thompson, Asplund and lastly Borgen.  Olofsson might be worth a 1st rd pick or a very good prospect.  Borgen is probably worth a 4th rd pick or less.  So you want to give Seattle our most consistent goal scorer for nothing, while retaining an aging prospect worth a 4th rd pick.  That makes no sense.  Even if the organization agreed with you they'd trade VO long before they expose him to the expansion draft and lose him for nothing.  

The other problem is what if Sea wants to go younger and cheaper.  Are you ok with losing Thompson, when he have no one else in the organization with his type of length and size?  

For those calling to trade Olofsson they are basing much of their position on the static and erroneous view that he is mostly a PP sniper. That's not the case or more accurately being lesser the case now. He has steadily widen the scope of his game where he is credibly playing as a first or second line forward. The Granato staff has emphasized that he needs to move in all areas and broaden his game. And that is exactly what he is doing. 

I like Borgen a lot. But the unit he is on has a greater reservoir of talent than our forward unit has. If I am forced to choose losing a defenseman or a forward I'm definitely keeping the goal scorer on a less than prolific scoring team over the defenseman who is part of a larger talented group. 

 

[Andrew Amerk]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

For those calling to trade Olofsson they are basing much of their position on the static and erroneous view that he is mostly a PP sniper. That's not the case or more accurately being lesser the case now. He has steadily widen the scope of his game where he is credibly playing as a first or second line forward. The Granato staff has emphasized that he needs to move in all areas and broaden his game. And that is exactly what he is doing. 

I like Borgen a lot. But the unit he is on has a greater reservoir of talent than our forward unit has. If I am forced to choose losing a defenseman or a forward I'm definitely keeping the goal scorer on a less than prolific scoring team over the defenseman who is part of a larger talented group. 

 

Thank you. I’ve tried to tell posters that Olof wasn’t just a PP scorer when I watched him with the Amerks. 

He has a 5v5 game as well. He just happened to score a ton of PP goals in his 1st season and got painted as only a specialist. There’s more there. 

[Gabrielor]

Ideal 3rd line in the Vanek Roy afinogenov mold next year. Thompson has been the weakest of the three, and sadly, is probably also the one we expose. 
 

skinner Eichel reinhart

bjork Cozens r2 

Asplund mitts Olof/Thompson

girgensons dcenter puncher

[Doohicksie]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

That's not the case or more accurately being lesser the case now. He has steadily widen the scope of his game where he is credibly playing as a first or second line forward.

I think RFK was content to let Olofsson be a power play sniper.  Granato doesn't let anyone rest on their laurels.  He wants them contributing however they can, every shift.

And surprise!  Olofsson is a fast skater and a great forechecker and a decent backchecker.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I think RFK was content to let Olofsson be a power play sniper.  Granato doesn't let anyone rest on their laurels.  He wants them contributing however they can, every shift.

And surprise!  Olofsson is a fast skater and a great forechecker and a decent backchecker.

What we both are essentially saying is that Granato sees that  one of his primary roles as a coach is to maximize the talents of his players. In contrast to Krueger player development is more of a priority than adherence to a system. DG's hockey philosophy is if the system doesn't match the talents of his roster then alter the system to get a better match. Krueger's approach was if the player didn't fit his pigeonhole system then jettison the player. The owner and organization were late in firing Krueger. If they would have kept him on longer how much more damage could he have done. I blame the extended foolishness on the owner. 

And as you and many are indicating Olofsson is a classic example of a player who was restricted when he had so much more to give. If you translate that underutilized talent to the roster as a whole you are wasting at least 25% production. That is a sin.