Taylor Hall sitting -- possible trade incoming

[Der Jaeger]

Hoping it's to Boston (with retention) for DeBrusk.

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, Curt said:

Its not obvious to me that Hall just needs a better coach.  I don’t want him back on this team.

If Hall doesn’t want to be traded, he doesn’t need to be.  It’s up to him.  He has a NMC.  Hall is a UFA.  If he wants to come back and Sabres want him back, they can sign him then, after they get deadline assets for him.  Not trading Hall makes absolutely no sense.

If Hall doesn’t want to go make a run at the cup with a good team, I think it says a lot about his priorities and I want him even less.

I’ll just add, teams don’t UFA buy their way out of being bad.  It doesn’t work.  I think we have seen this play out before.

Whatever drafting the team has done in the past, that’s over now, they fired everyone.  If Buffalo drafts terribly, none of this other stuff matters much.  It’s a requirement to building a good team (unless several truly brilliant trades are pulled off).  If that’s not fixed, it’s not going to happen for them.

Once again, the suggestion that they shouldn’t trade Hall makes absolutely no sense.  Just sit on our hands and think a new coach will fix everything?  Naive.

The Sabres didn't need to bring him back next year. But that is not to say that he couldn't have contributed substantially more in a better situation here this year.  I don't know what we will get for him when he is dealt. But what I do know for sure is that he would have been more productive under a better coaching circumstance. So even if he would have been dealt his value would have increased and the return would have been better. 

[Der Jaeger]

If Adams sends Hall (with retention) to Florida for Lundell, all is forgiven.  Florida would never do that, though.

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres didn't need to bring him back next year. But that is not to say that he couldn't have contributed substantially more in a better situation here this year.  I don't know what we will get for him when he is dealt. But what I do know for sure is that he would have been more productive under a better coaching circumstance. So even if he would have been dealt his value would have increased and the return would have been better. 

No doubt.  I was responding to a comment about Hall just needing a better coach and how there isn’t much point to getting draft picks.  Implying (I believe) that we should keep him.

[LabattBlue]

I really hope Hall is traded today or tomorrow.  Don't wait until too many teams fill their playoff roster holes.

[Scottysabres]

4 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Q benched Yandle the other night.

Yep. And with Eckblad out, I'd be looking at Montour to.

[Brawndo]

Savard to Florida makes sense as well 

[Buffalonill]

4 hours ago, Der Jaeger said:

Hoping it's to Boston (with retention) for DeBrusk.

Nothing like adding more heartless players.

[Hank]

Anyone think the Jets would give up Perfetti for Hall and Risto (50% retained on both)?

[Curt]

I’m a bit concerned that the return for Hall will be less than that coveted 1st or grade A prospect and everyone is going to be pissed when he goes for a 2nd and a 3rd or something like that.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Curt

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I’m a bit concerned that the return for Hall will be less than that coveted 1st or grade A prospect and everyone is going to be pissed when he goes for a 2nd and a 3rd or something like that.

I am the opposite

I put Hall's value at somewhere between pick 30-40. If Adams gets better than that I'll be quite happy. If he gets a pick in the 50-60 range, plus a small sweetener, I'll be mildly disappointed, but accept it as the best the market had to offer.

I hope Adams can get creative, like Fitzgerald did with Palmieri, but it's pretty easy to put myself in a GM's shoes and decide that the player I've been watching this year isn't worth a 1st.

Edited April 8, 2021 by dudacek

[Curt]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:38 PM, inkman said:

NFW

Are you saying that MTL would never give up so much?  Or is it that you don’t think it’s a fair return for Hall?

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I am the opposite

I put Hall's value at somewhere between pick 30-40. If Adams gets better than that I'll be quite happy. If he gets a pick in the 50-60 range, plus a small sweetener, I'll be mildly disappointed, but accept it as the best the market had to offer.

I hope Adams can get creative, like Fitzgerald did with Palmieri, but it's pretty easy to put my self in a GM's shows and decide that the player I've been watching this year isn't worth a 1st.

Yeah, I agree.  I should not have said everyone.

I just see some posters holding firm onto the 1st or nothing idea, and some expecting a 1st +.

[mjd1001]

21 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, I agree.  I should not have said everyone.

I just see some posters holding firm onto the 1st or nothing idea, and some expecting a 1st +.

On the instigators today, Rivet made a point that I agree with.  The difference in a player you draft from the bottom of round one compared to anywhere in round 2 isn't really that big.  Look at the draft history of NHL teams in the past decade or two..and he is right.  Of course you want the highest pick possible...but in a typical draft..the odds of a late 1st round pick (20-30) being a contributing NHL player isn't really all that much better than someone drafted in round 2.  Once again, its BETTER to pick higher, but not that much better outside of the 1st 10 picks of round 1.

If possible, you would be better looking to get a 19-22 year old prospect from a team than a draft pick.  Unless the pick is in the top 10....a guy who is 20 years old you will have a LOT more information on compared to a 17 year old you are drafting at the end of round 1.

Edited April 8, 2021 by mjd1001

[Brawndo]

 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Edmonton and Toronto.

And kudos to Adams if he can get those top two northern teams bidding against each other.

Edited April 8, 2021 by dudacek

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

 

how nice of him.

since his MVP season, he hasn't scored more than 11 goals in one season....will be on his 4th team in 4 years...is on a 14 goal-per 82 game scoring rate over the last 3 seasons...has been a 'minus' player in 10 of his 12 seasons...and has been well under a point-per-game player since having a major knee surgery.   But its great that he would do a team a favor and sign a multi-year extension (likely) for millions of $$s.

[Brawndo]

On TSN’s Insider Trading LeBrun said the Isles might circle back to Hall, Dreger mentioned more teams in on Him Now and that GMs can talk extension with Ferris, Servalli as of now the Leafs are not in on Him but that could change at anytime. 
 

From the Athletic Pierre LeBrun

Could the Devils be the only team to net a first-round pick at this deadline? Or at least one that’s not conditional. I could be wrong, and yes the Buffalo Sabres hope to net a first-rounder for Taylor Hall, and if the Columbus Blue Jackets decide to move Foligno, maybe they do as well.

But are we sure?

The sellers outnumber the buyers right now as far as I can tell. I’ve got this weird feeling that prices may crater come Monday and some decent players may be available for cheaper prices.

I strongly believe if Devils GM Tom Fitzgerald had waited until Monday on Palmieri, the return drops to a second-round pick. He was wise to act now. I don’t think the deal gets any better. And remember that Palmieri had a partial no-trade which limits the market to some degree.

While teams like Boston and Toronto had shown interest in Palmieri, I’m not convinced a first-round pick was attainable from either of those teams.

What will fascinate me now is the fallout for Buffalo on Hall. In losing the Islanders as a potential trade partner (I mean, we assume Lamoriello is out on Hall now, right?), the Sabres likely missed out on the one buyer that had ample cap room to take on Hall’s $8 million AAV or at least half. Now, whatever teams try to step up on Hall either need a third party broker or have to send Buffalo a contract or two to make it all work. All the other buyers on the market now are close to the cap.

One team executive I spoke with Thursday said if Hall was still sitting there Monday he could see a team get him for a second- or third-round pick plus send Buffalo a contract to make it work. No question the Sabres want to do better than that. But remember that Hall has a full no-move, he gets to say yes or no to any deal.

[SwampD]

15 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

how nice of him.

since his MVP season, he hasn't scored more than 11 goals in one season....will be on his 4th team in 4 years...is on a 14 goal-per 82 game scoring rate over the last 3 seasons...has been a 'minus' player in 10 of his 12 seasons...and has been well under a point-per-game player since having a major knee surgery.   But its great that he would do a team a favor and sign a multi-year extension (likely) for millions of $$s.

Would you keep quiet?! We’re trying to get a good return for him.

[mjd1001]

7 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Would you keep quiet?! We’re trying to get a good return for him.

I know, and Hall seems like a really nice guy...its just its pretty obvious, he not only isn't the same player that he was since his knee injury, he seems to be not even close to what he was before and after that surgery.  Hes still a fast skater, but with 3 more years of age on him and that knee surgery, its like he lost 5% of his speed....and that 5% of his speed is what made him the player he was before..and he is more 'just slightly above ordinary' without that speed and quickness he used to have.

[Curt]

39 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

how nice of him.

since his MVP season, he hasn't scored more than 11 goals in one season....will be on his 4th team in 4 years...is on a 14 goal-per 82 game scoring rate over the last 3 seasons...has been a 'minus' player in 10 of his 12 seasons...and has been well under a point-per-game player since having a major knee surgery.   But its great that he would do a team a favor and sign a multi-year extension (likely) for millions of $$s.

Not that I disagree with most of your points, but every single one of the numbers you wrote are wrong.

Hall scored 16 goals in 65 games last season.  Over the past 3 seasons, Hall has produced at a rate of 17.2 goals and 65.6 points per 82 games.  He has been a minus player in 9 out of 11 seasons.  He will be on his 4th team in 2 years.

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

Not that I disagree with most of your points, but every single one of the numbers you wrote are wrong.

Hall scored 16 goals in 65 games last season.  Over the past 3 seasons, Hall has produced at a rate of 17.2 goals and 65.6 points per 82 games.  He has been a minus player in 9 out of 11 seasons.  He will be on his 4th team in 2 years.

When I was calculating his stats, the page I was using broke last season up into different totals for each team..hence me thinking the last 2 seasons equal 3 seasons. However as you said, the numbers are slightly different but they still tell the same picture, his production has gone down quite a bit each season since his mvp season and his major surgery.

Edited April 8, 2021 by mjd1001

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

When I was calculating his stats, the page I was using broke last season up into different totals for each team..hence me thinking the last 2 seasons equal 3 seasons. However as you said, the numbers are slightly different but they still tell the same picture, his production has gone down quite a bit each season since his mvp season and his major surgery.

I don’t know.  His numbers from the 3 years before the MVP season (23.8 G’s, 61.5 PTs per 82) are not much different from the 3 seasons after (17.2 Gs, 65.6 PTs per 82), on a per game basis.

Honestly, he just is not an elite player.  He is a very good player who had an elite season that one year.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I don’t know.  His numbers from the 3 years before the MVP season (23.8 G’s, 61.5 PTs per 82) are not much different from the 3 seasons after (17.2 Gs, 65.6 PTs per 82), on a per game basis.

Honestly, he just is not an elite player.  He is a very good player who had an elite season that one year.

Sorta like Ryan Miller 😂

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Sorta like Ryan Miller 😂

I don’t really get it, but yeah kind of?