rickshaw Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) As the losing continues and we continue to hear about the dysfunction within the organization, one thing comes to mind for me. Who the hell wants to go to play for the Sabres? Its already a tough sell for many players but now, all I can see is players that are desperate to find a job, anywhere, will be the only ones the team can sign. And if that’s the case, then that means the team will be picking up lesser than stellar players. It will be a team of Reiders or Eakins and that means a not very good team. So this team can really only get better via the draft or trades. So, this could go on for many more years. Yikes Edited March 30, 2021 by rickshaw Quote
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) On 3/30/2021 at 5:38 PM, rickshaw said: As the losing continues and we continue to hear about the dysfunction within the organization, one thing comes to mind for me. Who the hell wants to go to play for the Sabres? Its already a tough sell for many players but now, all I can see is players that are desperate to find a job, anywhere, will be t he only ones the team can sign. And if that’s the case, then that means the team will be picking up lesser than stellar players. It will be a team of Reiders or Eakins and that means a not very good team. So this team can really only get better via the draft or trades. So, this could go on for many more years. Yikes Expand Please present evidence of a team getting better via free agency in the NHL. By better I mean significantly better. The only example I can think of is Leafs with Tavares. Trades and drafts have always been the way to build a team. Building a team using UFA is a fool's plan. Further did the Sabres not just sign the #1 UFA last summer? I mean come on this has never been true. Edited March 30, 2021 by LGR4GM 1 Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 5:42 PM, LGR4GM said: Please present evidence of a team getting better via free agency in the NHL. By better I mean significantly better. The only example I can think of is Leafs with Tavares. Further did the Sabres not just sign the #1 UFA last summer? I mean come on this has never been true. Expand We don’t know if this is true or not. We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would. We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall. No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall. We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management. We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada. Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception. Quote
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) On 3/30/2021 at 5:49 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: We don’t know if this is true or not. We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would. We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall. No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall. We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management. We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada. Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception. Expand Everyone overpays for UFA's which is why they aren't smart to go after unless it completes a team. You can't build a team with UFAs in the NHL. Further we have NO idea who offered Hall what. We have rumors but that's about it. Wait until you see Canadian taxes. Edited March 30, 2021 by LGR4GM Quote
miles Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 i suspect the sabres will need to overpay or give too many years to actually build a team from nhl players. they really needed to draft well and build the team from the minors and have them come in. the sabres have a couple of players coming in, but not enough im glad im not the one that has to fix this mess Quote
dudacek Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 The Sabres have signed one of the top free agents in three of the past five years (Okposo, Skinner, Hall). They are 0-fer. You might be right, but I don't care. 1 1 Quote
WhenWillItEnd66 Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 I do not think this is 100% true. Although a 20 game non winning streak and a 10 year playoff absence does not make us a prime destination. We would most likely need to pay more for the top guys, but we are great destination for those with something to still prove. Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 5:51 PM, LGR4GM said: Everyone overpays for UFA's which is why they aren't smart to go after unless it completes a team. You can't build a team with UFAs in the NHL. Further we have NO idea who offered Hall what. We have rumors but that's about it. Wait until you see Canadian taxes. Expand That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists. Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes. That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point. Quote
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:07 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists. Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes. That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point. Expand They pay taxes where they play the game do they not? On 3/30/2021 at 6:07 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists. Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes. That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point. Expand And yet we continue to sign UFA's, every year. 1 Quote
matter2003 Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 5:49 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: We don’t know if this is true or not. We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would. We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall. No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall. We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management. We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada. Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception. Expand The Bills turned this narrative quickly...now players are lining up to both come and stay here and take discounts to do it... Winning, culture and organizations that do things the right way spread quickly once it is on the right track...the Sabres need to look at the Bills model a lot closer. Different sports but there is a LOT they could learn from that model they are using...including having the best front office in the NFL...that personnel room is STACKED. 4 1 Quote
Norcal Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 I have to believe that there are players that want to be part of the solution. Start with a coach people respect. Then have the new power structure identify the type of players they need, the kind of players that can contribute to the chemistry and winning culture that the team is lacking. Draft, trade sign. 1 Quote
PerreaultForever Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 5:49 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception. Expand I think this is the key. If the organization does a visible reset and you have credible people on top and a new and clear vision/direction then there will be players who want to be part of that. Maybe at first mostly guys looking for a new start but it won't take long to be attractive again with the right type of leadership. Quote
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:16 PM, PerreaultForever said: I think this is the key. If the organization does a visible reset and you have credible people on top and a new and clear vision/direction then there will be players who want to be part of that. Maybe at first mostly guys looking for a new start but it won't take long to be attractive again with the right type of leadership. Expand Unless we start drafting and developing better none of this will matter. 2 Quote
nfreeman Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:07 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists. Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes. That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point. Expand Just to be precise, it doesn't work quite like this, and the savings aren't as much -- essentially the players pay prorated state taxes to each state they play in on road trips. The savings are substantial, to be sure, but it's not all-or-nothing. Quote
apuszczalowski Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:15 PM, Norcal said: I have to believe that there are players that want to be part of the solution. Start with a coach people respect. Then have the new power structure identify the type of players they need, the kind of players that can contribute to the chemistry and winning culture that the team is lacking. Draft, trade sign. Expand Wasn't Krueger the reason why Hall signed here? Quote
matter2003 Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:07 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists. Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes. That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point. Expand When you factor in cost of living, housing, etc the savings evaporate pretty quickly. Quote
nucci Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:08 PM, LGR4GM said: And yet we continue to sign UFA's, every year. Expand Yep, only so many jobs available Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:36 PM, apuszczalowski said: Wasn't Krueger the reason why Hall signed here? Expand Yes and the money. On 3/30/2021 at 6:37 PM, matter2003 said: When you factor in cost of living, housing, etc the savings evaporate pretty quickly. Expand Once you purchase a home, the cost of living between Buffalo and Tampa are pretty similar. So no, the savings over a decent term contract are substanial. On 3/30/2021 at 6:42 PM, nucci said: Yep, only so many jobs available Expand Agreed, guys like Sheahan, Eakin, and Rieder signed here because we overpaid (Eakin) or gave them the best opportunity to stay in the NHL and earn another contract after this season. Quote
Radar Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 5:49 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: We don’t know if this is true or not. We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would. We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall. No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall. We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management. We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada. Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception. Expand Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos would help but the longer we wait for that the more "rumor" in the thread title takes on more significance. Quote
inkman Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 5:51 PM, LGR4GM said: Everyone overpays for UFA's which is why they aren't smart to go after unless it completes a team. You can't build a team with UFAs in the NHL. Further we have NO idea who offered Hall what. We have rumors but that's about it. Wait until you see Canadian taxes. Expand I’ve never agreed with anything you posted more. NHL free agency is always a tire fire. It probably has something to do with the age most of these guys hit UFA status. It’s lower now than it used to be but these players start declining before 30. Yes superstars defy this standard but how many players is that 10-20 league wide. All these dudes with career years at 27-28 get buku bucks and immediately are on the decline. What a crappy way to disperse talent around the league. Draft for talent, trade for holes. UFAs should just be avoided altogether unless you find a player that has been used poorly or something to that effect. 1 Quote
Sabre fan Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 not too many free agents actually ever live up to the hype or to their salary. One only needs look at Briere and Drury signings and they left the Sabres. No question drafting is so important and good trading (something exGM JBotto would know absolutely nothing about) Quote
PerreaultForever Posted March 30, 2021 Report Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:20 PM, LGR4GM said: Unless we start drafting and developing better none of this will matter. Expand Of course. Cornerstone of any successful franchise. I mean look at the Bruins. great solid organization but they've laid an egg in a few big drafts and as a result are starting to fade as the core ages. Happens to any team that fails in the draft. But you want to build a solid building you need a strong foundation first. That's what this new management could help bring us. Quote
LaPerreausek Posted March 31, 2021 Report Posted March 31, 2021 This is why we need a huge culture change which we've needed for years and it hasn't happened....Time to really blow things up. 1 1 Quote
matter2003 Posted March 31, 2021 Report Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) On 3/30/2021 at 6:56 PM, GASabresIUFAN said: Yes and the money. Once you purchase a home, the cost of living between Buffalo and Tampa are pretty similar. So no, the savings over a decent term contract are substanial. Agreed, guys like Sheahan, Eakin, and Rieder signed here because we overpaid (Eakin) or gave them the best opportunity to stay in the NHL and earn another contract after this season. Expand Not really...Tampa is 26% more expensive https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/buffalo_ny/tampa_fl/costofliving And the mortgage for a house in Tampa is going to be a lot more costly for a lot less house. Edited March 31, 2021 by matter2003 Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 31, 2021 Report Posted March 31, 2021 On 3/31/2021 at 1:33 PM, matter2003 said: Not really...Tampa is 26% more expensive https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/buffalo_ny/tampa_fl/costofliving And the mortgage for a house in Tampa is going to be a lot more costly for a lot less house. Expand Your thinking like a normal person. The guys at the level this makes a difference don’t have mortgages. Quote
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