Buffalo - Destination Team?

[rickshaw]

As the losing continues and we continue to hear about the dysfunction within the organization, one thing comes to mind for me. Who the hell wants to go to play for the Sabres?

Its already a tough sell for many players but now, all I can see is players that are desperate to find a job, anywhere, will be the only ones the team can sign. 
 

And if that’s the case, then that means the team will be picking up lesser than stellar players. It will be a team of Reiders or Eakins and that means a not very good team.

So this team can really only get better via the draft or trades. So, this could go on for many more years. Yikes

Edited March 30, 2021 by rickshaw

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, rickshaw said:

As the losing continues and we continue to hear about the dysfunction within the organization, one thing comes to mind for me. Who the hell wants to go to play for the Sabres?

Its already a tough sell for many players but now, all I can see is players that are desperate to find a job, anywhere, will be t he only ones the team can sign. 
 

And if that’s the case, then that means the team will be picking up lesser than stellar players. It will be a team of Reiders or Eakins and that means a not very good team.

So this team can really only get better via the draft or trades. So, this could go on for many more years. Yikes

Please present evidence of a team getting better via free agency in the NHL. By better I mean significantly better. The only example I can think of is Leafs with Tavares. Trades and drafts have always been the way to build a team. Building a team using UFA is a fool's plan. 

Further did the Sabres not just sign the #1 UFA last summer? I mean come on this has never been true. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by LGR4GM

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Please present evidence of a team getting better via free agency in the NHL. By better I mean significantly better. The only example I can think of is Leafs with Tavares. 

Further did the Sabres not just sign the #1 UFA last summer? I mean come on this has never been true. 

We don’t know if this is true or not.  We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would.  We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall.  No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall.  

We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management.  We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada.

Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We don’t know if this is true or not.  We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would.  We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall.  No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall.  

We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management.  We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada.

Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception.

Everyone overpays for UFA's which is why they aren't smart to go after unless it completes a team. You can't build a team with UFAs in the NHL. Further we have NO idea who offered Hall what. We have rumors but that's about it. 

Wait until you see Canadian taxes. 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by LGR4GM

[miles]

i suspect the sabres will need to overpay or give too many years to actually build a team from nhl players. they really needed to draft well and build the team from the minors and have them come in. the sabres have a couple of players coming in, but not enough

 

im glad im not the one that has to fix this mess

[dudacek]

The Sabres have signed one of the top free agents in three of the past five years (Okposo, Skinner, Hall). They are 0-fer.

You might be right, but I don't care.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I do not think this is 100% true. Although a 20 game non winning streak and a 10 year playoff absence does not make us a prime destination. We would most likely need to pay more for the top guys, but we are great destination for those with something to still prove.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Everyone overpays for UFA's which is why they aren't smart to go after unless it completes a team. You can't build a team with UFAs in the NHL. Further we have NO idea who offered Hall what. We have rumors but that's about it. 

Wait until you see Canadian taxes. 

 

That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists.  Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes.  That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point.  

[LGR4GM]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists.  Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes.  That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point.  

They pay taxes where they play the game do they not?

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists.  Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes.  That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point.  

And yet we continue to sign UFA's, every year. 

[matter2003]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We don’t know if this is true or not.  We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would.  We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall.  No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall.  

We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management.  We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada.

Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception.

The Bills turned this narrative quickly...now players are lining up to both come and stay here and take discounts to do it...

Winning, culture and organizations that do things the right way spread quickly once it is on the right track...the Sabres need to look at the Bills model a lot closer.  Different sports but there is a LOT they could learn from that model they are using...including having the best front office in the NFL...that personnel room is STACKED.

[Norcal]

I have to believe that there are players that want to be part of the solution. 

Start with a coach people respect.

Then have the new power structure identify the type of players they need, the kind of players that can contribute to the chemistry and winning culture that the team is lacking. 

Draft, trade sign. 

 

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception.

I think this is the key. If the organization does a visible reset and you have credible people on top and a new and clear vision/direction then there will be players who want to be part of that. Maybe at first mostly guys looking for a new start but it won't take long to be attractive again with the right type of leadership. 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think this is the key. If the organization does a visible reset and you have credible people on top and a new and clear vision/direction then there will be players who want to be part of that. Maybe at first mostly guys looking for a new start but it won't take long to be attractive again with the right type of leadership. 

Unless we start drafting and developing better none of this will matter. 

[nfreeman]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists.  Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes.  That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point.  

Just to be precise, it doesn't work quite like this, and the savings aren't as much -- essentially the players pay prorated state taxes to each state they play in on road trips.  The savings are substantial, to be sure, but it's not all-or-nothing.

[apuszczalowski]

20 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I have to believe that there are players that want to be part of the solution. 

Start with a coach people respect.

Then have the new power structure identify the type of players they need, the kind of players that can contribute to the chemistry and winning culture that the team is lacking. 

Draft, trade sign. 

 

 

 

Wasn't Krueger the reason why Hall signed here?

[matter2003]

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s why many guys have the Canadian teams on their no trade lists.  Also why pay NY’s 10%+ taxes when you can play in Florida with no state taxes.  That a $675,000 difference for someone like Braden Point.  

When you factor in cost of living, housing, etc the savings evaporate pretty quickly.

[nucci]

33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

And yet we continue to sign UFA's, every year. 

Yep, only so many jobs available

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Wasn't Krueger the reason why Hall signed here?

Yes and the money.

15 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

When you factor in cost of living, housing, etc the savings evaporate pretty quickly.

Once you purchase a home, the cost of living between Buffalo and Tampa are pretty similar.   So no, the savings over a decent term contract are substanial.

10 minutes ago, nucci said:

Yep, only so many jobs available

Agreed, guys like Sheahan, Eakin, and Rieder signed here because we overpaid (Eakin) or gave them the best opportunity to stay in the NHL and earn another contract after this season.   

[Radar]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We don’t know if this is true or not.  We have no idea who wouldn’t sign here, just who would.  We also know that we generally over pay to get or keep guys like KO, Skinner and Hall.  No one else was offering anything near $8 mill for Hall.  

We have a great deal working against us such as high taxes, a terrible team, and poor management.  We also have somethings working for us such as opportunity for players on the ice to earn bigger roles, a great community of hockey fans and proximity to Canada.

Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos will help the organizational issues and perception.

Hiring Rutherford and Karmanos would help but the longer we wait for that the more "rumor" in the thread title takes on more significance.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Everyone overpays for UFA's which is why they aren't smart to go after unless it completes a team. You can't build a team with UFAs in the NHL. Further we have NO idea who offered Hall what. We have rumors but that's about it. 

Wait until you see Canadian taxes. 

 

I’ve never agreed with anything you posted more.   NHL free agency is always a tire fire.  It probably has something to do with the age most of these guys hit UFA status.  It’s lower now than it used to be but these players start declining before 30.  Yes superstars defy this standard but how many players is that 10-20 league wide.  All these dudes with career years at 27-28 get buku bucks and immediately are on the decline.  What a crappy way to disperse talent around the league.  Draft for talent, trade for holes.  UFAs should just be avoided altogether unless you find a player that has been used poorly or something to that effect. 

[Sabre fan]

not too many free agents actually ever live up to the hype or to their salary. One only needs look at Briere and Drury signings and they left the Sabres. No question drafting is so important and good trading (something exGM JBotto would know absolutely nothing about)

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Unless we start drafting and developing better none of this will matter. 

Of course. Cornerstone of any successful franchise. I mean look at the Bruins. great solid organization but they've laid an egg in a few big drafts and as a result are starting to fade as the core ages. Happens to any team that fails in the draft. 

But you want to build a solid building you need a strong foundation first. That's what this new management could help bring us. 

[LaPerreausek]

This is why we need a huge culture change which we've needed for years and it hasn't happened....Time to really blow things up.

[matter2003]

18 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes and the money.

Once you purchase a home, the cost of living between Buffalo and Tampa are pretty similar.   So no, the savings over a decent term contract are substanial.

Agreed, guys like Sheahan, Eakin, and Rieder signed here because we overpaid (Eakin) or gave them the best opportunity to stay in the NHL and earn another contract after this season.   

Not really...Tampa is 26% more expensive

https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/buffalo_ny/tampa_fl/costofliving

And the mortgage for a house in Tampa is going to be a lot more costly for a lot less house.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by matter2003

[GASabresIUFAN]

20 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Not really...Tampa is 26% more expensive

https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/buffalo_ny/tampa_fl/costofliving

And the mortgage for a house in Tampa is going to be a lot more costly for a lot less house.

 

Your thinking like a normal person.  The guys at the level this makes a difference don’t have mortgages.