Trading Linus Ullmark

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Per Friedman Toronto called about Ullmark 

It's funny I remember people here telling me how much better Andersen was then Ullmark.  

Demko vs Ullmark

Demko (25) Career: 62gms 30w 2.92 gaa and .911 save %  2020/21 25 gms 12w 2.77 and .917

Ullmark (27) Career: 112 gms 47w 2.76 gaa and .913 save%  2020/21 15 gms 6w 2.49 and .920

5 for 5 looks about right

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Per Friedman Toronto called about Ullmark 

Hard no. 

Wait I lied...

Nick Robertson and then we'll re- sign Ullmark July 1

[Curt]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Hard no. 

Wait I lied...

Nick Robertson and then we'll re- sign Ullmark July 1

Hall and Ullmark (both 50% retained) for Robertson, a 1st and whoever they want to send for $ balance.

[PerreaultForever]

Philly wants a goalie. I think they have a lot of young forward prospects. 

[Radar]

I like Linus a lot..........when he's healthy and that's the concern.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Radar said:

I like Linus a lot..........when he's healthy and that's the concern.

It’s a very salient point. I’m not sure how many years in a row the Sabres are willing to chalk up poor performance to injuries to key players before they start putting a little more value on players with durability, and team conditioning, or at least start going into seasons PLANNING for the inevitable injuries on the way - 

I like Ullmark and I’m unafraid to sign him LT but a solid backup is necessary to begin with and Linus’ injury history just makes it a must. Same goes for depth behind centre. Jack generally gets hurt at least once a year and we’ll have to see on Cozens. 

[SwampD]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

It’s a very salient point. I’m not sure how many years in a row the Sabres are willing to chalk up poor performance to injuries to key players before they start putting a little more value on players with durability, and team conditioning, or at least start going into seasons PLANNING for the inevitable injuries on the way - 

I like Ullmark and I’m unafraid to sign him LT but a solid backup is necessary to begin with and Linus’ injury history just makes it a must. Same goes for depth behind centre. Jack generally gets hurt at least once a year and we’ll have to see on Cozens. 

A great reason not to trade Risto or Reino.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think trading Ullmark is off the table unless they get some silly offer like a 1st and an established player.  The caveat here is his agent telling the Sabres he wants to explore his options in Free Agency.

He has developed nicely and could be our starter for the next 3 years while UPL develops.  

This is a completely different team with him in net.  I do agree with @Thorny that we need a proven established backup that can play when Ullmark gets injured and to avoid over playing him.  
 

 

[Crusader1969]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:51 PM, Crusader1969 said:

All you need to know about Ullmark this season. 14 decisions - 15 points earned.  
plus was winning the game he got hurt, we all remember the softy Hutton gave up in OT

all other goalies 21 decisions 4 points    Almost hard to believe 

 

 

 

All other goalies 22 decisions - 5 points.  

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

A great reason not to trade Risto or Reino.

I mention it all the time with Reinhart - it’s super undervalued I think. To illustrate - Cozens has missed more Sabres games to injury in his 25 game-Sabres career (11) than Reinhart has in his 6 seasons total (8)

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think trading Ullmark is off the table unless they get some silly offer like a 1st and an established player.  The caveat here is his agent telling the Sabres he wants to explore his options in Free Agency.

He has developed nicely and could be our starter for the next 3 years while UPL develops.  

This is a completely different team with him in net.  I do agree with @Thorny that we need a proven established backup that can play when Ullmark gets injured and to avoid over playing him.  
 

 

Pet peeve but the bold needs to stop imo. People talk about UPL like a sure thing and he’s far from it. 

[Weave]

16 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Pet peeve but the bold needs to stop imo. People talk about UPL like a sure thing and he’s far from it. 

You’re asking GA to change his spots.  He’s consistent with this.

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Pet peeve but the bold needs to stop imo. People talk about UPL like a sure thing and he’s far from it. 

As people dream about developing UPL, they ignore what Linus has already done.

Ullmark is 27 and he literally has gotten better every year. This idea that he is a 1B is so 2019.

• He is 6/5/3 2.49 .920 on this team. That's 17th in GAA, and 12th in SP.  On this team.
• His numbers are better than old pros like Price, Rask, Bobrovsky, Holtby, Varlamov and Anderson
• They are better than guys of his vintage like Hellebuyck, Kuemper, Jarry, Markstrom, Korpisalo, Merzlikens, Blackwood, Binnington, Murray and Gibson
• In some cases they are far better. On this team!

You could make a case that the only goalies in the entire league who have been clearly better than him this year are Grubauer, Vasilievski and Fleury. There is no way that there are 20 goalies right now who are clearly outperforming him. And he has just entered his prime.

He is the rare player (other than Olofsson, the only) that the Sabres have successfully developed. I read here all the time about how the Sabres have to do a better job of this. We finally get it right and people are content to let him walk.

For god sake, sign this guy.

Edited April 2, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

As people dream about developing UPL, they ignore what Linus has already done.

Ullmark is 27 and he literally has gotten better every year, and this idea that he is a 1B is so 2019.

• He is 6/5/3 2.49 .920 on this team. That's 17th in GAA, and 12th in SP.  On this team.
• His numbers are better than old pros like Price, Rask, Bobrovsky, Holtby, Varlamov and Anderson
• They are better than guys of his vintage like Hellebuyck, Kuemper, Jarry, Markstrom, Korpisalo, Merzlikens, Blackwood, Binnington, Murray and Gibson
• In some cases they are far better. On this team!

You could make a case that only goalies in the entire league who have been clearly better than him this year are Grubauer, Vasilievski and Fleury. There is no way that there are 20 goalies right now who are clearly better than him.

He is the rare player (other than Olofsson, the only) that the Sabres have successfully developed. I read it here all the time about how the Sabres have to do a better job of this. We finally get it right and people are content to let him walk.

For god sake, sign this guy.

Ya and he has good goalie mask designs 

[LabattBlue]

37 minutes ago, dudacek said:

As people dream about developing UPL, they ignore what Linus has already done.

Ullmark is 27 and he literally has gotten better every year. This idea that he is a 1B is so 2019.

• He is 6/5/3 2.49 .920 on this team. That's 17th in GAA, and 12th in SP.  On this team.
• His numbers are better than old pros like Price, Rask, Bobrovsky, Holtby, Varlamov and Anderson
• They are better than guys of his vintage like Hellebuyck, Kuemper, Jarry, Markstrom, Korpisalo, Merzlikens, Blackwood, Binnington, Murray and Gibson
• In some cases they are far better. On this team!

You could make a case that the only goalies in the entire league who have been clearly better than him this year are Grubauer, Vasilievski and Fleury. There is no way that there are 20 goalies right now who are clearly outperforming him. And he has just entered his prime.

He is the rare player (other than Olofsson, the only) that the Sabres have successfully developed. I read here all the time about how the Sabres have to do a better job of this. We finally get it right and people are content to let him walk.

For god sake, sign this guy.

That being said, who knows what Ullmark and his agent are thinking.  If they want to test the UFA waters, there is nothing the Sabres can do about it. 
 

Now if the Sabres are jerking him around and lowballing him and he ends up leaving, that’s a completely different story.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Pet peeve but the bold needs to stop imo. People talk about UPL like a sure thing and he’s far from it. 

No one is a sure thing, but UPL is developing similarly to Ullmark and look at those results.  3 years from now Ullmark will be 30 and if he's great he can remain the man but if UPL is ready (and cheaper) then you trade one of them for assets.  That's how good franchises work.  Look at Pitt, MAF was pushed by Murray who got pushed by Jarry who is now getting pushed by DeSmith.  Hopefully we'll have a similar problem here with Ullmark getting pushed by UPL who gets pushed by Portillo.  Can't have enough good goaltending.

 

 

[Thorner]

^ we’ll have to keep both if they refuse to add a quality backup by that hypothetical point when UPL is ready 

[Randall Flagg]

Changing my mind on this one, if he wants to test the market, simply hire someone to do hypnosis and direct him to sign a contract

[Curt]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

Changing my mind on this one, if he wants to test the market, simply hire someone to do hypnosis and direct him to sign a contract

This is an acceptable solution.

I say pay him, but try to limit term.  Goalie contracts longer that 3 years scare the bejebus out of me.

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, Curt said:

This is an acceptable solution.

I say pay him, but try to limit term.  Goalie contracts longer that 3 years scare the bejebus out of me.

Sign him.

He is 27. He has improved six years in a row.

Give him 5 years and step out of this god-forsaken goalie purgatory.

Sign him right now.

[Thorner]

With each passing day it gets more troublesome that Reinhart and Ullmark were not locked up. Ullmark situation could be dire sooner

[Curt]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sign him.

He is 27. He has improved six years in a row.

Give him 5 years and step out of this god-forsaken goalie purgatory.

Sign him right now.

This does not matter.  We aren’t talking about hockey players, we’re talking about goalies.  Good goalies regularly go to hell for years at a time then miraculously get good again, or don’t, regardless of age.  They are voodoo.

Now, a 5 year contract would not be the end of the world, but it’s not the normal kind of risk you would usually associate with signing a 27 year old to a 5 year contract.  The fact that Ullmark gets hurt and misses time on a fairly regular basis does not help.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Curt

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

This does not matter.  We aren’t talking about hockey players, we’re talking about goalies.  Good goalies regularly go to hell for years at a time then miraculously get good again, or don’t, regardless of age.  They are voodoo.

Now, a 5 year contract would not be the end of the world, but it’s not the normal kind of risk you would usually associate with signing a 27 year old to a 5 year contract.

 

We may attribute risk to the voodoo aspect you mentioned, but there'd be less "normal" risk re: signing a 27 year old because that's not as old for a goalie as it is other positional players. Oftentimes goalies hit a much later prime - so whereas we may fear an age drop off for a skater as soon as 28 or 29 in some cases, I wouldn't fear that with a goalie as much 

Maybe the +goalie aging curve and the voodoo aspect offset eachother more less re: risk and we can approach the signing like we would with most any other asset that was performing at a team-MVP level 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We may attribute risk to the voodoo aspect you mentioned, but there'd be less "normal" risk re: signing a 27 year old because that's not as old for a goalie as it is other positional players. Oftentimes goalies hit a much later prime - so whereas we may fear an age drop off for a skater as soon as 28 or 29 in some cases, I wouldn't fear that with a goalie as much 

Yeah, the age doesn’t matter.  Instead of worrying about drop off due to age, you get to worry about a drop off for no obvious reason at all.  It’s not better.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, the age doesn’t matter.  Instead of worrying about drop off due to age, you get to worry about a drop off for no obvious reason at all.  It’s not better.

I didn't say it was better. I said offset 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Thorny