Official Jason Karmanos Hired as Sabres Associate GM

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'd agree with you in part except for one thing. Toronto tanked, got Matthews and the rest is history. 

Point being, it's never that simple, there is no clear guaranteed path and it takes a lot of correct decisions to build a franchise. No one player, no one thing. You can't just have one good draft or one good trade or one good signing. You need to do it year after year, following a plan, laid out by solid management and good scouting. 

Now what does "associate" actually mean? Who's in charge of what? 

Big difference between selling off a few assets & keeping kids that could likely help the cause down on the farm for the final 2 months of a season & selling off darn near every NHL ready asset for futures for 2+ seasons.

Interjecting a GM that wants to accelerate the rebuild by using some (a lot) of those future assets to build an LA Kings style team when the team previously wasn't targeting that approach & then following him up with a guy thateffectively stood pat for a year & then sold those LA mold assets for more futures tobuild more in the Chicago/Pittsburgh mold which effectively completely switched the assets to be targeted twice in only ~4 years only future prolonged the suffering.  It was like when the Bills went from a 4-3 to a 3-4 & back again during the drought passing up on Gronk to take Troupe (a NT with a bad back) along with other misaligned personnel.  Nothing good can come of it.

At least Adams professed preferred style of play is similar to what Botterill was trying to build so not all the assets need to be sold for pennies on the $ again.

[Radar]

23 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I get it to a certain extent.  But Nightingale has had too big of a roll in icing some of the worst teams in NHL history.

No sense speculating on what happens next I suppose.....

That's what we do when we have no facts......speculate. In your case negatively.

[#freejame]

So does the director of scouting have hiring and firing privileges over the scouting department? Same question for director of analytics. 

[Thorner]

Did the Bills ever have like a senior advisor type while McDermott and Beane were setting it all up?

Karmanos' responsibilities seem so wide and varied in range that it seems like the Sabres have what they see is their version of "twin heads". Obviously one is a coach in the NFL, and they tried that with Krueger, but in football a coach is much more of a management type than in hockey - maybe the pegulas didn't realize that at first. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Did the Bills ever have like a senior advisor type while McDermott and Beane were setting it all up?

Karmanos' responsibilities seem so wide and varied in range that it seems like the Sabres have what they see is their version of "twin heads". Obviously one is a coach in the NFL, and they tried that with Krueger, but in football a coach is much more of a management type than in hockey - maybe the pegulas didn't realize that at first. 

No, McDermott was hired in January, GM Doug Whaley and His Football Staff were kept on through the draft. The Monday after the blood letting began. Beane brought in His Own People then 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Seeing Director of Analytics added to Karmanos Title 

 

[Brawndo]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Quick question, what exactly will Adams be doing with Karmanos managing the Amerks, Scouting, Player Development and Analytics Departments. Part of me wonders if Adams hopes to become more of President of Hockey Ops versus a classic GM.

I have a hunch he will be a placeholder for a few of those roles until more hires are made 

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I have a hunch he will be a placeholder for a few of those roles until more hires are made 

I'm really envisioning (Rutherford as?) a senior advisor to Adams and Karmanos who will generally operate the hockey department as a partnership, with Adams being the senior partner.

Under them will be the coaches, the player development department, the scouting department, the analytics department, the sports performance department, and a cap-and-contracts guru.

I foresee Jakubowski continuing as the contracts guy, I don't have any real insight into the performance department, and they obviously need a new head coach. I would be surprised if additions aren't made to each of the other three departments, but I'm not clear if they will be working with, for, or over existing guys like Forton, Crowe, Nightengale and Ellis.

One would think if they are adding a guy like Luce, he will go right to the top of the scouting department.

Edited April 14, 2021 by dudacek

[Curt]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

 

 

IS this the distinguishment here then? They are 1a and 1b for a GM?

An Associate GM title/promotion is generally given to an Assistant GM who is consider vital.  A real right hand man you could say.  Generally someone who is thought of as being qualified for a GM position in their own right.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Agree pretty much, though any hire with experience is definitely a positive sign. 

I trust Chad's reporting even more so now and he said Rutherford would only come if the Pegulas agreed to give them autonomy. Doesn't look like it's going to happen. 

It’s speculated that Rutherford is still under his Pitt contract until June.  Rutherford has said himself that he won’t be making any decisions about what’s next for him until that time.

[Curt]

49 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I have a hunch he will be a placeholder for a few of those roles until more hires are made 

This makes sense because that sounds like A LOT of areas under one AGM.  Also because I believe there have been suggestions that they may be looking to add more than one AGM.  Teams generally have 2-3.

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

In before some idiot says Rutherford recommended Krueger

But I'll say it in Star Wars dialogue:

--- Yeah, that's what you said last year when JBotts Biggs and Tank RaKru left joined Buffalo.

[LabattBlue]

Good news on the hiring of Karmanos, but sad that our inexperienced rookie GM had to try and find his way by himself for almost a full calendar year.  

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Good news on the hiring of Karmanos, but sad that our inexperienced rookie GM had to try and find his way by himself for almost a full calendar year.  

Agree.  It was a pretty long lonely time for Adams.

I’m glad that things were mostly gutted though and I’m glad they are filling back in from the top down by some experienced hands hopefully.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Curt

[Scottysabres]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

In before some idiot says Rutherford recommended Krueger

Well, in all fairness, it was reported.

Also, an overwhelming majority of the Sabres fan base has every right, with factual data to back it up, to be very pessimistic on EVERY former Penguins organization hiring. After all, 8 years of advisors, coaches, front office personnel from the Penguins organization has done soooooooooooo much for Buffalo, don't you agree?

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Agree pretty much, though any hire with experience is definitely a positive sign. 

I trust Chad's reporting even more so now and he said Rutherford would only come if the Pegulas agreed to give them autonomy. Doesn't look like it's going to happen. 

Chad did a Q and A with Expected Buffalo Subscribers on Sunday Night and He mentioned prior to the trade that Bjork was a player the Sabres were interested in as well 

[Thwomp!]

5 hours ago, tom webster said:

I have to respond to this. The problem isn’t Terry butting out. It is having strong enough  people to listen to his view point and tell him he’s wrong or that they want to go another direction.

McDermott did this when TPEGS wanted Mahommes.(maybe we wish he didn’t there). Kevyn did it regarding UPL. Terry loves him but Adams convinced him he’s at least a year if not two away.

These are multi million/ billion companies. The owner is going to have an opinion and wants to be treated right. We all have bosses to one degree or other. Sometimes you have to make them think that something is really their decision.

 I remember Marv Levy talking about the advice Mary Wilson gave him upon his hire. Just talk to Ralph and listen, or words something to that effect.

One last thing, I expect there to be several more hires although by statute, some won’t be announced till after the draft.

I think we can safely differentiate the Bills and Sabres in regard to the Pegula's influence.  He's hired the weak people, as you call them, so once again the problems start at the very top for the Sabres.  I know you often give the Pegulas the benefit of the doubt in regards to the Sabres, but I'm not doing that until the franchise isn't a league embarrassment anymore.

They've had a decade, they get no benefit of the doubt from me until they show they deserve it.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Big difference between selling off a few assets & keeping kids that could likely help the cause down on the farm for the final 2 months of a season & selling off darn near every NHL ready asset for futures for 2+ seasons.

Interjecting a GM that wants to accelerate the rebuild by using some (a lot) of those future assets to build an LA Kings style team when the team previously wasn't targeting that approach & then following him up with a guy thateffectively stood pat for a year & then sold those LA mold assets for more futures tobuild more in the Chicago/Pittsburgh mold which effectively completely switched the assets to be targeted twice in only ~4 years only future prolonged the suffering.  It was like when the Bills went from a 4-3 to a 3-4 & back again during the drought passing up on Gronk to take Troupe (a NT with a bad back) along with other misaligned personnel.  Nothing good can come of it.

At least Adams professed preferred style of play is similar to what Botterill was trying to build so not all the assets need to be sold for pennies on the $ again.

1. Not talking about selling off for pennies on the dollar. Talking selling off for good value. This always comes up in these discussions. On the one hand you have the fans saying these guys are worth a lot, but on the other hand they have to be replaced. If they are THAT good, why do we keep losing with them? Hokey trades do not have to be winner or loser, they can be changes that improve both sides. 

2. Agree with the changing back and forth idea. Have been saying we need a clear vision, a clear plan, and we need to do everything to stick with that. I'm just hoping the vision is a little different than what I think it might be but we shall see if there even is one. 

[Thorner]

28 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Well, in all fairness, it was reported.

Also, an overwhelming majority of the Sabres fan base has every right, with factual data to back it up, to be very pessimistic on EVERY former Penguins organization hiring. After all, 8 years of advisors, coaches, front office personnel from the Penguins organization has done soooooooooooo much for Buffalo, don't you agree?

The joke was, it was indeed true, therefore I was the "idiot". don't think anyone got it lol 

28 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Chad did a Q and A with Expected Buffalo Subscribers on Sunday Night and He mentioned prior to the trade that Bjork was a player the Sabres were interested in as well 

what do you think of rutherford, more likely a yay or nay in your estimation?

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

The joke was, it was indeed true, therefore I was the "idiot". don't think anyone got it lol 

what do you think of rutherford, more likely a yay or nay in your estimation?

Emoji's man, use them!

🙂

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Emoji's man, use them!

🙂

you can't do dry humor with emojis and it ruins sarcasm and those are my jam so

i'll have to take my chances

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

you can't do dry humor with emojis and it ruins sarcasm and those are my jam so

i'll have to take my chances

Very well.

From this point forward, I will take your every post as sarcasm and/or humor, therefore, my responses will reflect my "Thorny response jam" 😄

[mphs mike]

7 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce.

Brings back memories of attending the open practice for some reason

[phil_soisson]

Great! Another Pittsburgh reject to follow in the footsteps of Bylsma and Botteril, just to have someone help out the totally unqualified Buffalo Junior Sabres Kmart GM. You watch now,...promising guys like Borgen and Bryson, who finally made it up, will be shipped out so the "new guy" can put his stamp on the product. The ownership of this operation is toxic! It's tangible. You can feel it when you walk in the building. Fortune will not change until they sell, and are long gone. Til then, embrace the sucktitude!

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

Great! Another Pittsburgh reject to follow in the footsteps of Bylsma and Botteril, just to have someone help out the totally unqualified Buffalo Junior Sabres Kmart GM. You watch now,...promising guys like Borgen and Bryson, who finally made it up, will be shipped out so the "new guy" can put his stamp on the product. The ownership of this operation is toxic! It's tangible. You can feel it when you walk in the building. Fortune will not change until they sell, and are long gone. Til then, embrace the sucktitude!

Hmm, ignore.  Lol