Official Jason Karmanos Hired as Sabres Associate GM

[Brawndo]

Seeing Director of Analytics added to Karmanos Title 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Now hire some friggin scouts.  One pro scout is no where near enough.  5 amateur scouts isn't very good either.

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 6:42 PM, Brawndo said:

Seeing Director of Analytics added to Karmanos Title 

 

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So we will probably leave this open for a couple of weeks to discuss the hiring, but I don’t want this to become a catchall thread for everything that he does. It’s more interesting to have those discussions broken out and not buried into an ever-changing mega thread.

[Derrico]

  On 4/14/2021 at 5:09 PM, Brawndo said:

He was instrumental in laying the groundwork for what is now the Carolina Hurricanes Analytics Department and set up Pittsburgh’s as well. Adams wants to expand the Sabres Department as well. This hiring is a positive sign of that being accomplished.

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Wow.  Someone who has an ounce of clue who will oversee everything including our 'analytics department' that consistently ignores analytics?  What a concept.  I hope his first move is to replace Nightingale.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by Derrico

[Derrico]

  On 4/14/2021 at 5:31 PM, bunomatic said:

1a and 1b

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I know who the 1a should be.....

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 6:53 PM, Derrico said:

Wow.  Someone who has an ounce of clue who will oversee everything including our 'analytics department' that consistently ignores analytics?  What a concept.  I hope his first move is to replace Nightingale.  

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And what if he doesn’t? Is the new guy a bum or is Nightingale acceptable?

[thewookie1]

Quick question, what exactly will Adams be doing with Karmanos managing the Amerks, Scouting, Player Development and Analytics Departments. Part of me wonders if Adams hopes to become more of President of Hockey Ops versus a classic GM.

[LGR4GM]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:01 PM, SDS said:

And what if he doesn’t? Is the new guy a bum or is Nightingale acceptable?

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Nightingale needs to go. He's either ineffective at presenting data or doesn't have good data. 

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:05 PM, thewookie1 said:

Quick question, what exactly will Adams be doing with Karmanos managing the Amerks, Scouting, Player Development and Analytics Departments. Part of me wonders if Adams hopes to become more of President of Hockey Ops versus a classic GM.

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That's my thought, Adams will be over it all but others might do more of the day to day work. 

[Derrico]

  On 4/14/2021 at 6:33 PM, tom webster said:

I have to respond to this. The problem isn’t Terry butting out. It is having strong enough  people to listen to his view point and tell him he’s wrong or that they want to go another direction.

McDermott did this when TPEGS wanted Mahommes.(maybe we wish he didn’t there). Kevyn did it regarding UPL. Terry loves him but Adams convinced him he’s at least a year if not two away.

These are multi million/ billion companies. The owner is going to have an opinion and wants to be treated right. We all have bosses to one degree or other. Sometimes you have to make them think that something is really their decision.

 I remember Marv Levy talking about the advice Mary Wilson gave him upon his hire. Just talk to Ralph and listen, or words something to that effect.

One last thing, I expect there to be several more hires although by statute, some won’t be announced till after the draft.

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This is interesting.  I have placed a lot of blame on KA for doing jack ***** about our goaltending in the offseason.  If Terry is pushing UPL then it may be difficult to bring in someone to just be a placeholder.  Goalies usually take a long time to develop so I hope KA continues pushing back on that issue.  Last thing we need is for our only goalie prospect to be rushed and ruined as well.

[Derrico]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:01 PM, SDS said:

And what if he doesn’t? Is the new guy a bum or is Nightingale acceptable?

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If he looks at a list of moves the Sabres have made under Nigtingale's watch and concludes he is an answer to the problem then yes, the new guy is a bum, same as a long list before him.

[Radar]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:29 PM, Derrico said:

If he looks at a list of moves the Sabres have made under Nigtingale's watch and concludes he is an answer to the problem then yes, the new guy is a bum, same as a long list before him.

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The guy hasn't even seen his office yet most likely. Can't you at least give it a day?

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:29 PM, Derrico said:

If he looks at a list of moves the Sabres have made under Nigtingale's watch and concludes he is an answer to the problem then yes, the new guy is a bum, same as a long list before him.

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The reason why I ask this is that it reveals a lot IMO.
 

It basically says that everyone loves bringing in expertise as long as that expertise agrees with their personal assessment.

Terry - get the hell out of the way you don’t know what you’re doing.

Me - I know exactly what I’m doing.

[Thorner]

  On 4/14/2021 at 3:58 PM, tom webster said:

John Buccigros just tweeted Karmonis happening soon. He is money when it comes to Sabres.

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As is the guy who had it first:

  On 3/28/2021 at 3:53 PM, Thorny said:

Nice! Getting my hopes up. 

Watch Chad have this first, again. 

Honestly quickly becoming my most trusted Sabres twitter source/news breaker 

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  On 3/28/2021 at 8:16 PM, nfreeman said:

Interesting.  I have not held this opinion of CDD, but I'm certainly open to being swayed that way if today's tweets prove out.

 

I've posted previously about how I was in the arena on '70s night when they brought a ton of guys back, and I was pretty close to Dudley, and he absolutely still looks like he could clean out a bar full of ruffians at 3:00 AM.

 

Now this is a positive worldview that quickened my pulse.  I can see all of it, just over the rainbow...

 

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  On 4/14/2021 at 4:14 PM, Brawndo said:

Rutherford was on The Athletic Hockey Podcast and mentioned he would make a decision about His Future in June/July when His Deal Expires 

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So that's a no, right?

[Gabrielor]

Give me more experience. This should only be the beginning.

More hockey experience, less Pegula's.

[Derrico]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:38 PM, SDS said:

The reason why I ask this is that it reveals a lot IMO.
 

It basically says that everyone loves bringing in expertise as long as that expertise agrees with their personal assessment.

Terry - get the hell out of the way you don’t know what you’re doing.

Me - I know exactly what I’m doing.

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I get it to a certain extent.  But Nightingale has had too big of a roll in icing some of the worst teams in NHL history.

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:37 PM, Radar said:

The guy hasn't even seen his office yet most likely. Can't you at least give it a day?

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No sense speculating on what happens next I suppose.....

[WildCard]

  On 4/14/2021 at 4:44 PM, Curt said:

@Brawndo Do you know if it is Assistant GM or Associate GM?

 

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  On 4/14/2021 at 4:47 PM, Brawndo said:

Associate per Dreger 

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  On 4/14/2021 at 5:31 PM, bunomatic said:

1a and 1b

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IS this the distinguishment here then? They are 1a and 1b for a GM?

[Thorner]

  On 4/14/2021 at 4:18 PM, PASabreFan said:

Does an assistant GM warrant this much excitement? I think it's going to take Rutherford to make me schwing.

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Agree pretty much, though any hire with experience is definitely a positive sign. 

I trust Chad's reporting even more so now and he said Rutherford would only come if the Pegulas agreed to give them autonomy. Doesn't look like it's going to happen. 

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:46 PM, Thorny said:

Agree pretty much, though any hire with experience is definitely a positive sign. 

I trust Chad's reporting even more so now and he said Rutherford would only come if the Pegulas agreed to give them autonomy. Doesn't look like it's going to happen. 

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Why do you say that?

[Thorner]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:47 PM, SDS said:

Why do you say that?

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The fact it hasn't happened yet, the prevalent rumor that the delay was to announce as many hirings at one time as possible ie potentially wanting to announce Karmanos and Rutherford at the same time, and the fact that Rutherford mentioned June/July. You'd think if we were bringing him in it would be with plenty of time before the draft. 

Could still happen, I don't know

[PerreaultForever]

  On 3/31/2021 at 4:56 PM, nfreeman said:

Eggs-actly.

For the zillionth time:  the point of the tank was to end up with a winning team -- NOT just to end up with a star player.  The misguided souls who supported the tank did so because they thought, wrongly, that getting a star player was the surest path to developing a winning team.  The wise ones who opposed the tank knew that really bad teams usually stay in the basement -- they don't just pop down to pick up a bottle of champagne and then pop back up to become the life of the party.

Also, Dahlin was not part of the tank.  The Sabres were trying to be good that year -- they just failed miserably due to incompetence at GM and HC.

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I'd agree with you in part except for one thing. Toronto tanked, got Matthews and the rest is history. 

Point being, it's never that simple, there is no clear guaranteed path and it takes a lot of correct decisions to build a franchise. No one player, no one thing. You can't just have one good draft or one good trade or one good signing. You need to do it year after year, following a plan, laid out by solid management and good scouting. 

Now what does "associate" actually mean? Who's in charge of what? 

[SDS]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:50 PM, Thorny said:

The fact it hasn't happened yet, the prevalent rumor that the delay was to announce as many hirings at one time as possible ie potentially wanting to announce Karmanos and Rutherford at the same time, and the fact that Rutherford mentioned June/July. You'd think if we were bringing him in it would be with plenty of time before the draft. 

Could still happen, I don't know

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He might not be allowed to take another job until that timeframe. Is that not compelling?

[Claude Balls]

Nnnn.......giddy up....

[Thorner]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:54 PM, SDS said:

He might not be allowed to take another job until that timeframe. Is that not compelling?

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I guess.

The Eichel news is bumming me out. 

[Brawndo]

 

[Thorner]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:57 PM, Brawndo said:

 

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In before some idiot says Rutherford recommended Krueger