Official Jason Karmanos Hired as Sabres Associate GM

[inkman]

Reviewing Rutherford’s trade history, he certainly likes to make a lot of deals. None of which looked very consequential.  When you have Crosby, Malkin and LeTang; you are afforded the luxury of not having to make significant changes.  

1 minute ago, inkman said:

Reviewing Rutherford’s trade history, he certainly likes to make a lot of deals. None of which looked very consequential.  When you have Crosby, Malkin and LeTang; you are afforded the luxury of not having to make significant changes.  

Trades

He took over in June of 2014.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

We've seen a few references on here to Rutherford still being under contract.

Can any business lawyers explain how that works? Is it likely he had a clause in his contract that allowed him to quit but restrains him from taking work elsewhere?

The answer to all legal questions is it depends.  How he left the organization will go along way to determining if he is free to pursue other opportunities.  Is he still receiving a paycheck?  Did the parties agree to his departure?  He might have received a severance package that precludes him from working for another organization for this season.  Does he have a non-compete clause otherwise.  Who knows.   

If he isn't receiving a paycheck and the Pens management agreed to his departure, then the Pens would have a hard time arguing that he is still under contract.  Remember we had to send a draft pick to Pitt for DD as he was still getting paid by Pitt and therefore was theoretically still under contract.  

Edited April 8, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Brawndo]

Rutherford was on the Hockey Show, The Athletic’s Hockey Podcast and he mentioned that he could possibly make a decision on his future in June/July or six months after that whether to take a new job or retire. 
 

He also  mentioned that he has been in communication with current NHL general  managers about league activities. 
 

Adams is probably one of them 

[Norcal]

I was looking at Rutherfords draft history with the Penguins.

They essentially won the cups with the four drafts previous to Rutherford taking over it looks like.

Sid and Geno and the trades helped of course. 

He didn't have a first from 2015-2019 because they were chasing cups but most of his picks for Pitt have yet to make an impact in the NHL. 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007475.html

 

 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Rutherford was on the Hockey Show, The Athletic’s Hockey Podcast and he mentioned that he could possibly make a decision on his future in June/July or six months after that whether to take a new job or retire. 
 

He also  mentioned that he has been in communication with current NHL general  managers about league activities. 
 

Adams is probably one of them 

Any feeling on this? 

Is Rutherford still feeling like 70-80% likely as originally mentioned? 

What's the mood around here?

[Brawndo]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Any feeling on this? 

Is Rutherford still feeling like 70-80% likely as originally mentioned? 

What's the mood around here?

I still believe he ends up as Senior Advisor to Adams and is helping him from afar for the trade deadline. 
 

They are probably waiting for His Contract to expire to make it official, so that no compensation is necessary 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I still believe he ends up as Senior Advisor to Adams and is helping him from afar for the trade deadline. 
 

They are probably waiting for His Contract to expire to make it official, so that no compensation is necessary 

So, early June pre-draft, I'd imagine?

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Norcal said:

I was looking at Rutherfords draft history with the Penguins.

They essentially won the cups with the four drafts previous to Rutherford taking over it looks like.

Sid and Geno and the trades helped of course. 

He didn't have a first from 2015-2019 because they were chasing cups but most of his picks for Pitt have yet to make an impact in the NHL. 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007475.html

 

 

If Rutherford comes, I want him to be an advisor only. 
 

Be there to provide NHL Contacts that a First Time GM, with minimal experience would not have. 
 

And most importantly remove the rumored interference from the Top 

[tom webster]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I still believe he ends up as Senior Advisor to Adams and is helping him from afar for the trade deadline. 
 

They are probably waiting for His Contract to expire to make it official, so that no compensation is necessary 

It’s not unusual for new executives to have the current make decisions regarding tear down before they join the organization. I believe that there will be substantial additions to the front office announced in the near future. Of course, my credibility took a hit earlier this season, so take my opinion for what it is, my opinion.

[Brawndo]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

So, early June pre-draft, I'd imagine?

Probably, even Karmanos has time remaining on his deal 

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

It’s not unusual for new executives to have the current make decisions regarding tear down before they join the organization. I believe that there will be substantial additions to the front office announced in the near future. Of course, my credibility took a hit earlier this season, so take my opinion for what it is, my opinion.

I trust Your Opinion 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It’s not unusual for new executives to have the current make decisions regarding tear down before they join the organization. I believe that there will be substantial additions to the front office announced in the near future. Of course, my credibility took a hit earlier this season, so take my opinion for what it is, my opinion.

Don't think so. 

Batting average still seems fine 

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Probably, even Karmanos has time remaining on his deal 

I trust Your Opinion 

So with Forton as head of amateur scouting do you think they continue to steer clear of the CHL mostly? 

[Hoss]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:03 AM, dudacek said:

I would hope that this week, of all weeks, Kevyn is not focused on interviewing and negotiating for new front office staff.

just filter trade proposals through your assistant (if the Pegulas were willing to pay one).

[Trettioåtta]

20 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I still believe he ends up as Senior Advisor to Adams and is helping him from afar for the trade deadline. 
 

They are probably waiting for His Contract to expire to make it official, so that no compensation is necessary 

Did they not do away with the compensation thing?

[Brawndo]

4 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

Did they not do away with the compensation thing?

That’s right, but clubs can still block or delay interviews if they desire 

[tom webster]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Don't think so. 

Batting average still seems fine 

So with Forton as head of amateur scouting do you think they continue to steer clear of the CHL mostly? 

The CHL thing is not so much of anti CHL as it is the different time line with European and College prospects. The thinking has been, since it’s all a crap shoot, why not give yourself the most time possible to evaluate the prospects. I’m quite sure that they would never bypass a CHL player strictly by this criteria but it is part of the equation 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

The CHL thing is not so much of anti CHL as it is the different time line with European and College prospects. The thinking has been, since it’s all a crap shoot, why not give yourself the most time possible to evaluate the prospects. I’m quite sure that they would never bypass a CHL player strictly by this criteria but it is part of the equation 

Definitely, but it's still anti-CHL for that reason - Botterill was on record saying this from very early on 

We saw this continue under Adams, albeit in a limited sample size so far (only 1 draft), but considering what we have seen organizationally on a consistent basis now for several years and the current layout of the scouting department, it stands to reason there's a good chance the philosophy you mentioned has continued. 

I think there are merits to it but Botterill at least appeared altogether too stringently adherent to it, IMO. Hopefully if the general philosophy IS carried forward, that's not as much the case. 

[Brawndo]

3 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The CHL thing is not so much of anti CHL as it is the different time line with European and College prospects. The thinking has been, since it’s all a crap shoot, why not give yourself the most time possible to evaluate the prospects. I’m quite sure that they would never bypass a CHL player strictly by this criteria but it is part of the equation 

The National Post had an article where more Canadian Players are going the NCAA Route as its possibly better for their development.  Cale Makar was the example they used 

[Norcal]

58 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

If Rutherford comes, I want him to be an advisor only. 
 

Be there to provide NHL Contacts that a First Time GM, with minimal experience would not have. 
 

And most importantly remove the rumored interference from the Top 

I agree. Im hoping that's what it is and Adams has his own vision but is using Rutherford as a sounding board and for his connections. 

[Stoner]

19 hours ago, Norcal said:

I agree. Im hoping that's what it is and Adams has his own vision but is using Rutherford as a sounding board and for his connections. 

It boggles my mind that you prefer a kiddie rink manager's vision over that of an architect of Cup champions.

[Norcal]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

It boggles my mind that you prefer a kiddie rink manager's vision over that of an architect of Cup champions.

I guess I give him a little more credit than you do

[Stoner]

27 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I guess I give him a little more credit than you do

Why? What am I missing? He talks more goodlier than previous GMs. His mission statement "What is a Sabre?" is nonsense. He's from the area and played in the NHL. I don't know what else to go on.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

19 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Why? What am I missing? He talks more goodlier than previous GMs. His mission statement "What is a Sabre?" is nonsense. He's from the area and played in the NHL. I don't know what else to go on.

Now that you mention it, he does speak very goodly.  Much more goodlier than either of the previous 2 GMs, at least.  I can pretty much understand every word and it's not mumbo-jumbo, mostly.

[Norcal]

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Why? What am I missing? He talks more goodlier than previous GMs. His mission statement "What is a Sabre?" is nonsense. He's from the area and played in the NHL. I don't know what else to go on.

I dont think he's the all knowing one or anything but I doubt he's just locked in a room somewhere slugging redbulls and trying different trade scenarios on his Xbox either.  

He's been involved in the league a long time and has plenty of contacts of his own including Rutherford and Karmanos who do have experience and can help him navigate if needed. 

I see nothing wrong at this time IMO in giving him the benefit of the doubt and trusting him to get the best deals he can get. 

[LGR4GM]

On 4/8/2021 at 1:49 PM, tom webster said:

The CHL thing is not so much of anti CHL as it is the different time line with European and College prospects. The thinking has been, since it’s all a crap shoot, why not give yourself the most time possible to evaluate the prospects. I’m quite sure that they would never bypass a CHL player strictly by this criteria but it is part of the equation 

And it's ***** stupid. 

[tom webster]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

And it's ***** stupid. 

Is it really? You, yourself, acknowledge what a crap shoot the draft becomes by mid second round, or even earlier. Isn’t it good asset management to pick guys whose control you have for an extra couple of years.