Good Article on Sabres Dysfunction from 538

[Eleven]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

Lindy's mediocre coaching record post-Buffalo says otherwise.

The Sabres' records post-Lindy are much worse.

[SDS]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

And nine years says that the solution wasn't to fire him.  It's been long enough.  They've only been worse.  You and your crowd were wrong. Live with it.

The team record was 6-10-1 when he was fired. But that roster was bottoming out.

[bunomatic]

21 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

When everyone, including the media whine about ownership the conveniently forgot these are the same owners of the Buffalo Bills! Bills organization is glowing talked about on every media publication and on the airwaves from the east coast to the west as the shining example of how a winning organization should be built. 
Well aren’t these the same owners? What the Pegulas know how to run football and not hockey? it’s called business and he is a very successful business man. 
 

 

Successful at business is not a metric for successful at hockey ownership. He has been an absolutely bad team owner through and through and yes as owner all the bad goes to you as does the good. Hasn’t been any good largely because of his decisions.

[Stoner]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The Sabres' records post-Lindy are much worse.

He was the best coach we ever had and could have easily won three Cups. Shall we agree on that and call it a day?

[Marvin]

43 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

He was the best coach we ever had and could have easily won three Cups. Shall we agree on that and call it a day?

PA FTW!

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Curt said:

Maybe, but the hiring of Lafontaine itself is just representative of the Pegula ownership issues.

He was a great player of course, but was not qualified to be team president.  He had no management or front office experience at all.

The Pegulas hired him on a bit of a whim after having a nice dinner together or something like that, if my memory is correct.  The fact that he left the organization just a few months later just shows that the Pegulas and LaFontaine were never really on the same page regarding how the team should be run.

It was not a franchise inflection point, it was just the first in a long string of bad hires.

The Pegulas have done a very bad job hiring for the Sabres.  That’s been the major issue.

I agree, but is the bolded not the crux of it?

[Marvin]

4 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Pominville was who we needed to keep around last year, and even this year depending on how he was holding up. Hell Vanek would of been useful last year as well. They were both proud to be Buffalo Sabres, to wear our jersey, and fight for the fans.

The primary problem with the whole rebuild was the lack of any strings; nothing connects this team with the prior 40+ years. I will always be a fan of the tank as we were trapped in mediocrity but that was due in part thanks to the terrible drafting we've done for almost 2 decades. What the team needed to do was strip the roster but not to the degree they did. Miller would of prevented the tank so he's ruled out but either Vanek or Pominville plus a couple of our bottom six guys/Dmen would of sufficed. That is the one thing we did terribly wrong; we blew up everything versus stripping it down to the studs. We tried to replace everyone with savvy vets but none whom had specific loyalties to the team. The only guy who fit the category was Gionta, and he was here briefly as his career ran down. 

 

If I were in charge, at this point I would start inviting former captains and players who loved their time here to talk to the players during the offseason and sponsor team meetups to create a comradery between the players.  Have them watch old Sabres games from their heydays, show them without a doubt what it is like to play on a great Sabres team in this city. We may not be an original six city but we are certainly one of the most loyal and raucous fanbases in the league. They need to see that.  

Neither Vanek nor Miller was OK initially with even a rebuild.  I do not know what Pominville thought.

There needed to be players who were old enough to have had success in Buffalo, young enough to have solid careers after a rebuild, fewer mercenaries, and support from management when things went well.

The handling of those teams was chaotic.  If there was a player worth learning from, he was out the door because he made the team too good.  Some fans booed when they won.  WGR taught people how to ridicule and attempt to intimidate fans like me who wanted to win.  Management deliberately overpaid Strachan, Meszaros, and Benoit.  The GM got upset in the newspaper and denigrated the results when they were closer to the playoffs than the basement.

The team learnt its mercenary attitude during the tank.  The younger players have no intrinsic loyalties to the older players, each other except within their cliques, and the organisation, whence the whole is far less than the sum of its parts.

And now coaching and management...

[Hawerchuk]

7 hours ago, Radar said:

One word! Ownership. Not coaching, GM's  or the equipment manager. Ownership responsible for all of it.

AGREE 100%

[Radar]

3 hours ago, JKB1646 said:

When everyone, including the media whine about ownership the conveniently forgot these are the same owners of the Buffalo Bills! Bills organization is glowing talked about on every media publication and on the airwaves from the east coast to the west as the shining example of how a winning organization should be built. 
Well aren’t these the same owners? What the Pegulas know how to run football and not hockey? it’s called business and he is a very successful business man. 
 

 

Frankly I'm of the opinion they purely lucked out with the Bills in hiring the coach who picked the GM. Also hockey and football are different.

[Kruppstahl]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I have to believe it all starts at the fracture point with Pat LaFontaine. Had they done whatever it was he wanted and let him run it all this might have all been totally different. The philosophical difference at that moment sent us down the wrong path. 

I've heard nothing to indicate in any way that the Pegulas finally realize they are wrong, and that they will turn it over to someone who really knows hockey. 

There was discussion on-air today that I had not heard before.

The idea being that "ownership" was pushing hard for UPL to be the guy in Buffalo, this season.

Apparently ownership had to be talked out of this idea by more intelligent hockey minds.  Krueger? Adams? Both?

UPL is a million miles away from being ready to play in a Sabres sweater, especially as of the beginning of this season, but Pegula thought that was a good idea?

As long as Pegula is going to be this stupid, and yet want to control the team in this manner, we are going to have trouble icing a competitive team.

That's why this piece at Five Thirty Eight is interesting.  We aren't just bad, we are worst in N. American major league men's sports bad.

Until this becomes a larger talking point than it currently is, things are not going to change.

I'm not sure it will change even if it does become a major talking point, but it's all we have to hope for right now.

We need Pegula to either: 1) sell the team or 2) radically change his approach to ownership of the team.

 

 

[JKB1646]

3 hours ago, Radar said:

Frankly I'm of the opinion they purely lucked out with the Bills in hiring the coach who picked the GM. Also hockey and football are different.

I don’t think they got lucky building a fracking empire from a $75k loan! I believe the opposite to be true. The have been unlucky when it comes to the Sabres. On TSN Sports They were just talking about the Pegulas. nobody in the NHL or other players whine about the Sabres organization being penny pinchers that they don’t treat players well , they are involved in the community that they give back to community! the only thing they don’t do for the Buffalonians is Win Baby, 

[JKB1646]

6 hours ago, SwampD said:

This is a really stupid post. Who phucking cares?!

Yes. They may know how to run a football team (or have gotten lucky.)

Their record with the Sabres is the worst there ever has been in the history of the NHL. Good Job.

Yeah real smart! Wish the Pegulas could get some shots on net too! 

[JujuFish]

55 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

I don’t think they got lucky building a fracking empire from a $75k loan! I believe the opposite to be true. The have been unlucky when it comes to the Sabres. On TSN Sports They were just talking about the Pegulas. nobody in the NHL or other players whine about the Sabres organization being penny pinchers that they don’t treat players well , they are involved in the community that they give back to community! the only thing they don’t do for the Buffalonians is Win Baby, 

Is your last name Pegula?

[etiennep99]

13 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Pominville was who we needed to keep around last year, and even this year depending on how he was holding up. Hell Vanek would of been useful last year as well. They were both proud to be Buffalo Sabres, to wear our jersey, and fight for the fans.

 

I was thinking exactly the same a few days ago.  Pominville and Gionta before him.  Elder statesmen, who could still play a pretty good game, in contrast to Okposo.

GMJB also tried to have guys with playoff and Stanley Cup experience in Wilson, Sheary, Elie...

[yachoman]

15 hours ago, JKB1646 said:

When everyone, including the media whine about ownership the conveniently forgot these are the same owners of the Buffalo Bills! Bills organization is glowing talked about on every media publication and on the airwaves from the east coast to the west as the shining example of how a winning organization should be built. 
Well aren’t these the same owners? What the Pegulas know how to run football and not hockey? it’s called business and he is a very successful business man. 
 

 

From the rumors I hear, Terry doesn't know or love football so he lets the football guys run the show. He does, however, love and "thinks" he knows hockey so is very hands on and involved. Sounds like Ralph for many years with the Bills. Not surprisingly the same years the Bills stunk. And if you claim Ralph was owner when the Bills had their SB run, my guess is Polian had most of the control at the time.

It has to be ownership. We've changed GM (multiple times), coaches (multiple times), and 90% of our roster has turned over (multiple times). That only leaves the owner and core players (Eichel, Rino, Ristol, McCabe, Girgs). Culture starts from the head down.

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, JKB1646 said:

I don’t think they got lucky building a fracking empire from a $75k loan! I believe the opposite to be true. The have been unlucky when it comes to the Sabres. On TSN Sports They were just talking about the Pegulas. nobody in the NHL or other players whine about the Sabres organization being penny pinchers that they don’t treat players well , they are involved in the community that they give back to community! the only thing they don’t do for the Buffalonians is Win Baby, 

"unlucky" right, that's it. sure. 

[Radar]

15 hours ago, JKB1646 said:

I don’t think they got lucky building a fracking empire from a $75k loan! I believe the opposite to be true. The have been unlucky when it comes to the Sabres. On TSN Sports They were just talking about the Pegulas. nobody in the NHL or other players whine about the Sabres organization being penny pinchers that they don’t treat players well , they are involved in the community that they give back to community! the only thing they don’t do for the Buffalonians is Win Baby, 

Agree. They are not penny pinchers at all. Fracking  is not a hockey franchise and I doubt the Pegulas ran it day to day. Their money purchased leases and contractors fracked . No comparison. I also think they're nice people and community minded but again that has nothing to do with running a hockey franchise. Ten years of futility and we think they're doing a good job because they spend and are community minded? Being nice and generous doesn't matter if you are not operating this franchise in a successful way. 

 

 

 

[Marvin]

15 hours ago, JKB1646 said:

I don’t think they got lucky building a fracking empire from a $75k loan! I believe the opposite to be true. The have been unlucky when it comes to the Sabres. On TSN Sports They were just talking about the Pegulas. nobody in the NHL or other players whine about the Sabres organization being penny pinchers that they don’t treat players well , they are involved in the community that they give back to community! the only thing they don’t do for the Buffalonians is Win Baby, 

I tend to defend the Pegulas, but for the hockey team, that's their job.  They have been unlucky AND been bad,

[JKB1646]

15 hours ago, JujuFish said:

Is your last name Pegula?

No but I can tell tell your a  whining Buffalonian! Like I said you can’t have your cake an eat it too. You have a rich owner who treats the players well, is from Buffalo, supports the community, builds a winner in the bills, is passionate about his businesses and wants to win but the chips don’t fall his way in one out of three. I wish the Pegulas didn’t glide to the bench like Eichel

[JKB1646]

58 minutes ago, Radar said:

Agree. They are not penny pinchers at all. Fracking  is not a hockey franchise and I doubt the Pegulas ran it day to day. Their money purchased leases and contractors fracked . No comparison. I also think they're nice people and community minded but again that has nothing to do with running a hockey franchise. Ten years of futility and we think they're doing a good job because they spend and are community minded? Being nice and generous doesn't matter if you are not operating this franchise in a successful way. 

 

 

 

But it’s a Business and they are successful business people. Warren Buffet bought Dairy Queen on the spot for $580 M.....cash deal. Do you think he knows how to mix the Blizzard ? If you go back to Dairy Queen ten times and your blizzard sucks do you whine for new owner ship? I am so tired of all you peeps whining about the owners. If I were the Pegulas I would be embarrassed at the employees I have hired! Rip the C off Jacks jersey! That would be the start! 

[Andrew Amerk]

19 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

There was discussion on-air today that I had not heard before.

The idea being that "ownership" was pushing hard for UPL to be the guy in Buffalo, this season.

Apparently ownership had to be talked out of this idea by more intelligent hockey minds.  Krueger? Adams? Both?

UPL is a million miles away from being ready to play in a Sabres sweater, especially as of the beginning of this season, but Pegula thought that was a good idea?

As long as Pegula is going to be this stupid, and yet want to control the team in this manner, we are going to have trouble icing a competitive team.

That's why this piece at Five Thirty Eight is interesting.  We aren't just bad, we are worst in N. American major league men's sports bad.

Until this becomes a larger talking point than it currently is, things are not going to change.

I'm not sure it will change even if it does become a major talking point, but it's all we have to hope for right now.

We need Pegula to either: 1) sell the team or 2) radically change his approach to ownership of the team.

 

 

If this is true about UPL, it’s pretty bad. I get the concept of wanting to play with your shiny new toy, but sometimes it’s one of those toys that you have to stick in water  and wait for it to grow. 

8 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

No but I can tell tell your a  whining Buffalonian! Like I said you can’t have your cake an eat it too. You have a rich owner who treats the players well, is from Buffalo, supports the community, builds a winner in the bills, is passionate about his businesses and wants to win but the chips don’t fall his way in one out of three. I wish the Pegulas didn’t glide to the bench like Eichel

This is a very poor take. Someone in this position doesn’t just “let the chips fall where they may.” That type of person has a better pulse on what’s going on, and makes the appropriate changes. Especially after a decade of experience at this point. 

[JKB1646]

5 hours ago, Ice Cold said:

You seem like a real insider.  Tell me, please, sir or ma'am, what's the real story behind the Lafontaine resignation?

Who cares? Do you really think that’s going to help Dahlin play fr&#)#”g defense. 
 

since you Buffalonians seem to dwell on the past so much find out why Lafontaine quit six weeks into his stint as an advisor to the islanders and why he is not working in the NHL today. Just maybe the problem lies with him, not your owners

[JKB1646]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

If this is true about UPL, it’s pretty bad. I get the concept of wanting to play with your shiny new toy, but sometimes it’s one of those toys that you have to stick in water  and wait for it to grow. 

This is a very poor take. Someone in this position doesn’t just “let the chips fall where they may.” That type of person has a better pulse on what’s going on, and makes the appropriate changes. Especially after a decade of experience at this point. 

Is it the owner or the generational talent we should be more disappointed in! The penguins tanked twice and embarrassingly so. Once to get The next one and the second time to get The kid. Both times it paid off. We tanked an all we got was “Jack-ed” 

[Andrew Amerk]

1 minute ago, JKB1646 said:

Is it the owner or the generational talent we should be more disappointed in! The penguins tanked twice and embarrassingly so. Once to get The next one and the second time to get The kid. Both times it paid off. We tanked an all we got was “Jack-ed” 

It’s the ownership. It’s glaringly obvious. 

[SwampD]

23 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

But it’s a Business and they are successful business people. Warren Buffet bought Dairy Queen on the spot for $580 M.....cash deal. Do you think he knows how to mix the Blizzard ? If you go back to Dairy Queen ten times and your blizzard sucks do you whine for new owner ship? I am so tired of all you peeps whining about the owners. If I were the Pegulas I would be embarrassed at the employees I have hired! Rip the C off Jacks jersey! That would be the start! 

No, and you are making our point for us. Buffet let people who know how to make Blizzards do their thing. Terry is actively involved in the operations of the Sabres.

14 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

Who cares? Do you really think that’s going to help Dahlin play fr&#)#”g defense. 
 

since you Buffalonians seem to dwell on the past so much find out why Lafontaine quit six weeks into his stint as an advisor to the islanders and why he is not working in the NHL today. Just maybe the problem lies with him, not your owners

"You Buffalonians"?

I won't miss you when you stop posting here.