31 Thoughts Podcast Opening Segment on the Sabres

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

He's a good skater in that his edgework and agility are elite. But his straight line speed is insaaaaaanely slow. He has probably given up more 2 on 1s/breakaways because of this over the last three years than the rest of the Sabres defensemen combined. 

I hesitate to quote this because I generally agree it's not currently a strength - but IMO I think you are slightly overstating it. 

The reason I say this is because, I've seen that often when Dahlin gets beat, he falls behind at first but then more less keeps pace once he's moving. He's not fast but he's also so slow to react sometimes, and that one step is SO much in, like you said, an already fast league. 

He can overcome average speed with anticipation, and he isn't anticipating 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Thorny
He needs to work on it to get the speed up to average

[pi2000]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

LOL, Dahlin's skating is excellent.  There is literally nothing wrong with his skating.  What is wrong is how he was coached to play.  My guess is he is faster then Bryson who plays with freedom because he hasn't been coached very long by RK and SS.  Get Dahlin with a real coach and his alleged skating issue will go be the wayside.  

elite edges and agility

sub-par quickness and top-end speed

Good thing is he's still young, his legs should get stronger, hopefully build that quickness and speed, but he needs to train the right way.

Faster than Bryson?   No.

[Randall Flagg]

I am stupefied that someone could believe Dahlin is a faster skater than Bryson. 

Bryson is in the top 1 or 2 percentile of skating speed I've seen in a Sabre uniform since 2005. Dahlin has to be comfortably in the bottom 10th

[Thorner]

Dahlin reminds me of Reinhart

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Dahlin reminds me of Reinhart

Underappreciated? 

[Marvin]

Dahlin does not have NHL-level positioning instincts yet.  IMHO, they have deteriorated since Housley was canned.

[Thorner]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Underappreciated? 

I almost added "full stop" but I think too many would view it with a negative connotation. 

They are similar in lots of ways honestly. How they are perceived, where in the draft they were selected, demeanor, skating speed, strengths 

[PerreaultForever]

1. We need a coach working with him and the young D directly and one on one.

2. His minutes need to be cut way back and he needs to be taken out of difficult situations as much as possible. 

3. and this is the biggie. He needs to be paired with a steady veteran D man and that pairing has to stay paired until such time as he grows into what he should or could be. 

It all has to be pulled back drastically. He's broken and it's a slow and step by step fix. If you can't get that veteran D man to play with him we'd be better off to trade him and let someone else put in the 2-3 years this will take to get him where we want him to be. 

[Kruppstahl]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

It's a skating league and he's neither fast nor explosive.    His agility is off the charts tho, but if somebody gets a step on him, he's toast. 

His speed is actually astonishingly slow for a kid who was promoted as heavily as he was.

The next Bobby Orr?  With that level of speed?  

Bobby Orr used to skate circles around the entire opposing team, go end to end, score single handedly, and then lower his head in shame because he just embarrassed everyone on the ice.

Dahlin is a million miles away from being able to do those things.

Can he be utilized in a different fashion to improve his game or focus on his strengths?

Absolutely! 

The other night when Ovechkin turned him inside out, he was beaten as badly as I recall an NHL player ever being beaten.

His game is just totally lost right now.

 

[Norcal]

I think part of Dahlins struggle is that he thinks the game  creatively much different than his teammates who are not expecting his sneaky little passes which leads to turnovers and scoring chances. The players have no chemistry together on the ice. 

[LabattBlue]

Skating from a complete stop, and defensive zone awareness are clearly his biggest issues.  I don’t like Steve Smith, but look at the two horrible Dahlin plays in the recent Caps game, and let me know how that is the coaches fault. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by LabattBlue

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Skating from a complete stop, and defensive zone awareness are clearly his biggest issues.  I don’t like Steve Smith, but look at the two horrible Dahlin plays in the recent Caps game, and let me know how that is the coaches fault. 

Steve Smith gets a lot of stuff here, maybe it's deserved. But I don't know ***** about assistant coaching, or their impact on teams. 

The same people who hate Steve Smith tend to gush over the Hurricanes, and he was supposedly a big part in the development of their defense corps including Pesce and Slavin

[LTS]

16 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Steve Smith gets a lot of stuff here, maybe it's deserved. But I don't know ***** about assistant coaching, or their impact on teams. 

The same people who hate Steve Smith tend to gush over the Hurricanes, and he was supposedly a big part in the development of their defense corps including Pesce and Slavin

And Bales supposedly worked wonders with their goaltending right?  

It's not an easy answer.  If it were just Dahlin I would give a lot less crap to Steve Smith but it really isn't just Dahlin.  He's not playing well, his confidence is way down and I think that plays a huge amount into how he performs.  he needs to get an upward cycle and build on it.

[Randall Flagg]

6 minutes ago, LTS said:

And Bales supposedly worked wonders with their goaltending right?  

It's not an easy answer.  If it were just Dahlin I would give a lot less crap to Steve Smith but it really isn't just Dahlin.  He's not playing well, his confidence is way down and I think that plays a huge amount into how he performs.  he needs to get an upward cycle and build on it.

I believe Bales was the guy that supposedly turned Fleury around. 

[LTS]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I believe Bales was the guy that supposedly turned Fleury around. 

Yeah, he was in Pittsburgh in then.  Then went to Carolina and got wonders from McIlhenney and such.  But here the goaltending has been awful... sometimes it doesn't translate.  Perhaps Ullmark is better because of him, but Hutton and JJ not so much.

Always hard to say.  Sometimes a player just excels or fails despite the coach and other times I am sure there's a connection and a benefit... and sometimes I bet a coach can destroy a player.

 

[calti]

4 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

it is the culture plain and simple... trade him to Tampa and watch him take off.... it's all culture 

he goes to Tampa he'll score 90 points

[Curt]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I am stupefied that someone could believe Dahlin is a faster skater than Bryson. 

Bryson is in the top 1 or 2 percentile of skating speed I've seen in a Sabre uniform since 2005. Dahlin has to be comfortably in the bottom 10th

This discussion really makes me want to get my hands on that player tracking data that is coming next season.

I don’t think Dahlin is slow at top speed, his acceleration is probably a little below average though.  I think he hesitates (confidence) all the time and it makes him look slow.  Plus taller guys always look a little slower.

[Cascade Youth]

Thank goodness.

Based on the title, I clicked on this thread expecting a picture.

[LabattBlue]

31 minutes ago, Curt said:

This discussion really makes me want to get my hands on that player tracking data that is coming next season.

I don’t think Dahlin is slow at top speed, his acceleration is probably a little below average though.  I think he hesitates (confidence) all the time and it makes him look slow.  Plus taller guys always look a little slower.

I’d still like to believe that a power skating coach could help Dahlin with acceleration in his first 5 or so strides. 
 

The question is...is that help being provided to Dahlin?

[SwampD]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

I’d still like to believe that a power skating coach could help Dahlin with acceleration in his first 5 or so strides. 
 

The question is...is that help being provided to Dahlin?

Absolutely. I think he skates to upright. What's the saying - Bend your knees as low as you can go, you're halfway there.

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I’d still like to believe that a power skating coach could help Dahlin with acceleration in his first 5 or so strides. 
 

The question is...is that help being provided to Dahlin?

Oh, I’m sure.  It’s something he can improve on.  He’s 20.

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Oh, I’m sure.  It’s something he can improve on.  He’s 20.

Sure that he will improve his skating from a dead stop, or sure they have a power skating coach to help him get better? 😀

[Curt]

50 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Sure that he will improve his skating from a dead stop, or sure they have a power skating coach to help him get better? 😀

The first one.  I think they might have fired the skating coaches.

[Andrew Amerk]

8 hours ago, Thorny said:

Will Staal improve under a new coach? Can't we just keep him? Or are you talking about for next year.

Or just thinking no chance he improves?

Why are you bringing up Staal in a thread about Dahlin?

[pi2000]

Circling back on Dahlin, he was never explosive or fast but he's slower and more sluggish than his first 2 seasons.

Reason one is he's put on weight... which is good, but only if done correctly without sacrificing speed and quickness.

Reason two is RK's practices which are mentally more than physically challenging... you can tell because the entire team plays slow and is one or two steps behind in all areas.