31 Thoughts Podcast Opening Segment on the Sabres

[Brawndo]

Friedman made His Weekly appearance on WGR this AM and was talking about How there is worry about Rasmus Dahlin and that His Regression is very concerning. He wonders what Dan Girardi will be able to do with him for the remainder of the season. He also appeared to suggest the Sabres might be better off molding their game plan around him by playing to his strengths to allow him to regain His Confidence.

 

Thoughts? 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Brawndo

[French Collection]

It has to be a confidence issue. The raw tools do not disappear.

I watch him closely when I can and he is lost. He was never strong defensively but his offensive creativity made me look the other way.

He is an artist not a tradesman. Needs to be let loose and go create. He needs to be paired with a Girardi clone but maybe Dan can help get him going.

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Friedman made His Weekly appearance on WGR this AM and was talking about How there is worry about Rasmus Dahlin and that His Regression is very concerning. He wonders what Dan Girardi will be able to do with him for the remainder of the season. He also appeared to suggest the Sabres might be better off molding their game plan around him by playing to his strengths to allow him to regain His Confidence.

 

Thoughts? 

Playing to a young player's strengths? 

Well I NEVER.....I mean...what? He can't be serious. That could never work. 

- - - 

I am also worried about him, for the record. Looking at how long it took guys like Hedman to develop, I still very highly value the asset. But of course there is worry when a player takes steps back like he has. 

I still think it's more likely he'll be just fine. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Thorny

[LabattBlue]

I dislike the “his development was ruined by the GM or coach <fill in the blank>”.  This gets thrown around far too often when a prospect doesn’t improve...Mitts, Tage, Grigerenko, Dahlin, the list goes on and on. 
 

If Dahlin doesn’t turn it around and become an elite player in the NHL, maybe it’s as simple as he doesn’t have the “mental makeup/drive” to succeed at the NHL level. 

[dudacek]

He is incredibly skilled and far too young to not improve.

Like Jeff Skinner, I think he is a player who has spent far too much time being asked to focus on what he is not, and too little time embracing what he is.

Edited March 18, 2021 by dudacek

[bob_sauve28]

14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Friedman made His Weekly appearance on WGR this AM and was talking about How there is worry about Rasmus Dahlin and that His Regression is very concerning. He wonders what Dan Girardi will be able to do with him for the remainder of the season. He also appeared to suggest the Sabres might be better off molding their game plan around him by playing to his strengths to allow him to regain His Confidence.

 

Thoughts? 

The fact that Henry Joki has also regressed makes me think that perhaps this has something to do with coaching, organization or something. 

[Thorner]

16 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I dislike the “his development was ruined by the GM or coach <fill in the blank>”.  This gets thrown around far too often when a prospect doesn’t improve...Mitts, Tage, Grigerenko, Dahlin, the list goes on and on. 
 

If Dahlin doesn’t turn it around and become an elite player in the NHL, maybe it’s as simple as he doesn’t have the “mental makeup/drive” to succeed at the NHL level. 

Is it more likely we randomly keep drafting players who just happen to stagnate at a future date, or that we are bringing in players who then suffer from the organization wide ineptitude we see itself manifest in literally every other area? 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorner]

It's hard to develop when you aren't put in a position to find success. Getting sent to a bad team also increases the likelihood that prospects will be brought along recklessly and asked too much of too early. We set them up for failure and they have to be *better* than advertised to reach a level projected. 

Those projected levels generally assume organizational competence. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Thorny

[pi2000]

It's a skating league and he's neither fast nor explosive.    His agility is off the charts tho, but if somebody gets a step on him, he's toast. 

[Thorner]

22 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

It's a skating league and he's neither fast nor explosive.    His agility is off the charts tho, but if somebody gets a step on him, he's toast. 

We've seen ya boy Reinhart get a little quicker, I think Dahlin can too 

[Weave]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It's hard to develop when you aren't put in a position to find success. Getting sent to a bad team also increases the likelihood that prospects will be brought along recklessly and asked too much of too early. We set them up for failure and they have to be *better* than advertised to reach a level projected. 

Those projected levels generally assume organizational competence. 

This concept has been my argument why the tank was doomed to failure.  It has forced development of these kids at a harmful rate.

24 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

It's a skating league and he's neither fast nor explosive.    His agility is off the charts tho, but if somebody gets a step on him, he's toast. 

 

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We've seen ya boy Reinhart get a little quicker, I think Dahlin can too 

I think Pi’s point had some merit.  It is a speed league.  Lacking high end speed, his other shortfalls get magnified.

[Gatorman0519]

it is the culture plain and simple... trade him to Tampa and watch him take off.... it's all culture 

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, Weave said:

This concept has been my argument why the tank was doomed to failure.  It has forced development of these kids at a harmful rate.

 

I think Pi’s point had some merit.  It is a speed league.  Lacking high end speed, his other shortfalls get magnified.

Ya, the tank was an exceptionally questionable strategy because of how many things needed a best case scenario result for the sum to be a success. 

- - - 

Oh it definitely has merit. It's not a strength. Just saying that if those other shortfalls you mentioned improve (he's going to improve, a lot, given his age. imo i suppose) there aren't as many things to expose. Except in extreme circumstances navigating your way around 1 key weakness is par for the course. And I think he can improve there. 

Lots of even the top players in the league aren't seen as burners. McDavid is in a league of his own, anyways. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

Dahlin's issues were a coaching staff that sucked the creativity out of his game.  His skating is just fine.  His positioning could be better and that is also a coaching issue.  They made him (and everyone else) so afraid to make a mistake that he was over thinking every play.  That actually leads to slow reactions and more mistakes. 

The solution has been since day one with Dahlin, and Risto and Myers before him, is to get him paired with the right defensive minded partner.  We have all seen what a proper pairing did for Myers and Risto, why our foolish GMs (Jbot and KA) haven't made this decision already is beyond me.

Dan Girardi should help.  He was a solid two way player and lasted nearly 1000 NHL games despite not being a brilliant skater.  He was great positionally and he should be a good mentor for all our defensemen.  Dahlin and Jokiharju should benefit the most. 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Dahlin's issues were a coaching staff that sucked the creativity out of his game.  His skating is just fine.  His positioning could be better and that is also a coaching issue.  They made him (and everyone else) so afraid to make a mistake that he was over thinking every play.  That actually leads to slow reactions and more mistakes. 

The solution has been since day one with Dahlin, and Risto and Myers before him, is to get him paired with the right defensive minded partner.  We have all seen what a proper pairing did for Myers and Risto, why our foolish GMs (Jbot and KA) have made this decision already is beyond me.

Dan Girardi should help.  He was a solid two way player and lasted nearly 1000 NHL games despite not being a brilliant skater.  He was great positionally and he should be a good mentor for all our defensemen.  Dahlin and Jokiharju should benefit the most. 

 

Exactly. They should have paired him with a good sound defender, allowed him to develop his offensive game while slowly bringing his defensive game along. Instead Krueger and Smith cut him off at the knees and wanted him to be a stay at home defender who feeds breakout passes up to wingers. Of course the wingers aren't always in position or open but Dahlin, being the good kid he is, did what he was told. 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Dahlin's issues were a coaching staff that sucked the creativity out of his game.  His skating is just fine.  His positioning could be better and that is also a coaching issue.  They made him (and everyone else) so afraid to make a mistake that he was over thinking every play.  That actually leads to slow reactions and more mistakes. 

The solution has been since day one with Dahlin, and Risto and Myers before him, is to get him paired with the right defensive minded partner.  We have all seen what a proper pairing did for Myers and Risto, why our foolish GMs (Jbot and KA) have made this decision already is beyond me.

Dan Girardi should help.  He was a solid two way player and lasted nearly 1000 NHL games despite not being a brilliant skater.  He was great positionally and he should be a good mentor for all our defensemen.  Dahlin and Jokiharju should benefit the most. 

 

Myers and Risto aren't that good. Dahlin is definitely struggling more relative to what I think he is capable of than they did. 

I do wholeheartedly agree that the actions you suggest would help get him back on the right track 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

Watch the play that Adam Fox made last night to set up a goal by charging up the boards and feathering a beautiful pass to the forward breaking to the net.  This is what Dahlin's game should be about.  

How much better would our offense be if RK and SS had allowed the D to make those kind of quick in game decisions.  I'm so glad they are gone.  

The first two moves KA should be making are to find a partner for Dahlin and finding a middle 6 center.  He should trade Miller or Montour for that d first player to a team looking to upgrade their offense from the blueline.  He then needs to find a middle 6 center who can play up until Cozens is ready.

[Randall Flagg]

Dahlin is definitely slow and it definitely is important, especially when you want him pinching and stepping up. We've been burned by many breakaways/ 2 on 1s that wouldn't have been if he could skate fast 

[pi2000]

37 minutes ago, Weave said:

This concept has been my argument why the tank was doomed to failure.  It has forced development of these kids at a harmful rate.

 

I think Pi’s point had some merit.  It is a speed league.  Lacking high end speed, his other shortfalls get magnified.

When you watch guys like Makar, Heiskanen,  etc... the first thing that jumps out at you is their elite quickness and speed.    Dahlin is smooth and agile, but has below average quickness and speed.     Just watching Bryson play, he makes up for a lot of mistakes just with his quickness and speed. 

 

12 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Dahlin is definitely slow and it definitely is important, especially when you want him pinching and stepping up. We've been burned by many breakaways/ 2 on 1s that wouldn't have been if he could skate fast 

Has he ever caught anybody from behind?     Same question for Sam 🙂

[Thorner]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Watch the play that Adam Fox made last night to set up a goal by charging up the boards and feathering a beautiful pass to the forward breaking to the net.  This is what Dahlin's game should be about.  

How much better would our offense be if RK and SS had allowed the D to make those kind of quick in game decisions.  I'm so glad they are gone.  

The first two moves KA should be making are to find a partner for Dahlin and finding a middle 6 center.  He should trade Miller or Montour for that d first player to a team looking to upgrade their offense from the blueline.  He then needs to find a middle 6 center who can play up until Cozens is ready.

Will Staal improve under a new coach? Can't we just keep him? Or are you talking about for next year.

Or just thinking no chance he improves?

[GASabresIUFAN]

LOL, Dahlin's skating is excellent.  There is literally nothing wrong with his skating.  What is wrong is how he was coached to play.  My guess is he is faster then Bryson who plays with freedom because he hasn't been coached very long by RK and SS.  Get Dahlin with a real coach and his alleged skating issue will go be the wayside.  

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

When you watch guys like Makar, Heiskanen,  etc... the first thing that jumps out at you is their elite quickness and speed.    Dahlin is smooth and agile, but has below average quickness and speed.     Just watching Bryson play, he makes up for a lot of mistakes just with his quickness and speed. 

 

Has he ever caught anybody from behind?     Same question for Sam 🙂

While true, that's not all guys, and not all elite guys either.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Will Staal improve under a new coach? Can't we just keep him? Or are you talking about for next year.

Or just thinking no chance he improves?

Everyone will improve with a new coach, but I'm focused on next year.  This year is already over.  It's now just a 25+ game evaluation camp for KA and his staff such as it is.

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

LOL, Dahlin's skating is excellent.  There is literally nothing wrong with his skating.  What is wrong is how he was coached to play.  My guess is he is faster then Bryson who plays with freedom because he hasn't been coached very long by RK and SS.  Get Dahlin with a real coach and his alleged skating issue will go be the wayside.  

He's a good skater in that his edgework and agility are elite. But his straight line speed is insaaaaaanely slow. He has probably given up more 2 on 1s/breakaways because of this over the last three years than the rest of the Sabres defensemen combined. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Everyone will improve with a new coach, but I'm focused on next year.  This year is already over.  It's now just a 25+ game evaluation camp for KA and his staff such as it is.

Thankfully Staal will potentially provide plenty of evaluation points while he's still here. 

Staal under Krueger v Stall not under Krueger