Don Granato Interim Coach for Sabres/Ellis and Girardi to the Bench. Steve Smith Fired

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

No. The theme was "no chl guys after round 1" and that held

Botterill took Cozens, and did draft euros

 

They aren't going to draft CHL after round 1 because it was the system they were using under Botterill and clearly think they can get away employing far less scouts. 

They won't even have scouting for the mid tiers. Botterill's system allows them to save $ there's no reason they won't continue that route especially considering their entire staff is USA hockey except for Devine I guess. 

So you know that from a draft where they had 5 selections total, 3 of them in the 5th or later? It would be easier for them to scout the OHL than it would be all USA hockey for what it is worth. The team had 2 picks in the top 130, who knows what their drafting philosophy is. It is concerning they don't have a WHL scout by all accounts. 

Also Botterill was no CHL guys and Cozens was the only exception. It wasn't about money but about longer dev time because Botterill was short-sighted. 

I don't see how you can make this declaration from 1 draft where 3 guys from 5th round or later where you could get a dratboard of names and have as much success. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by LGR4GM

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

Interesting.

 

1 hour ago, IKnowPhysics said:

I know in my heart of hearts that Torts is not a long term solution, but damned if I don't want someone to just simply yell at these players like an angry father for the remainder of the broken season.

And bonus points for fun pressers.

Both of those Torts items are appealing, but he's still coaching CBJ.

 

16 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Maybe he'll bring his assistant coach with him?

https://friars.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/roster#sidearm-roster-coaches

Ugh.  That alone should disqualify him.

[IKnowPhysics]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Yellers succeed despite of the yelling, not because of it. 

My comment has nothing to do with future success.  Mostly spite disguised as accountability.

Player performance had a significant, if non-majority, part in the debacle of this season.  It wasn't all on Krueger or Adams.  And the players need to be held accountable for their part.  The players can say what they want to the media, but they're not backing their words up with effort.

But really, small-mindedly, I just want someone to yell at them for a while.  I want someone to rub their noses in the pile they made like the tail-wagging carpet shitters they have been lately.

[Thorner]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So you know that from a draft where they had 5 selections total, 3 of them in the 5th or later? It would be easier for them to scout the OHL than it would be all USA hockey for what it is worth. The team had 2 picks in the top 130, who knows what their drafting philosophy is. It is concerning they don't have a WHL scout by all accounts. 

Also Botterill was no CHL guys and Cozens was the only exception. It wasn't about money but about longer dev time because Botterill was short-sighted. 

I don't see how you can make this declaration from 1 draft where 3 guys from 5th round or later where you could get a dratboard of names and have as much success. 

I was talking about how they did, and have continued to draft. The one draft we have seen from Adams followed the Botterill model to a T. No CHL guys outside round 1 was the Botterill thing, because of the development time thing you correctly pointed out, which he stated wasn't as much of a deal in the first cause there was more certainty with those players. That was the trend that continued. 

You are absolutely correct one draft from KA isn't enough in itself to say the strategy will continue. Even if that's what I think is happening based on a combination of things I mentioned. But I was taking issue with your post that supposed that Adams had proved differently or changed the trend. So far, trend has continued 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Thorny

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

My comment has nothing to do with future success.  Mostly spite disguised as accountability.

Player performance had a significant, if non-majority, part in the debacle of this season.  It wasn't all on Krueger or Adams.  And the players need to be held accountable for their part.  The players can say what they want to the media, but they're not backing their words up with effort.

But really, small-mindedly, I just want someone to yell at them for a while.  I want someone to rub their noses in the pile they made like the tail-wagging carpet shitters they have been lately.

I get that.

I go back to something I posted a few years ago, I think the word accountability means something different to everyone. I don’t know what it means, but it is used all the time.

I do know people scream that they want accountability on this team, but when Jeff Skinner doesn’t score for umpteen games and gets demoted to a different line, they scream about the demotion and how clueless it was. 🤷🏻

[Randall Flagg]

Wonder why they give Torts such good odds? I could see him getting fired, and I could see him getting hired here, but since he's coaching another team right now it hardly seems right to give him the best odds

[GASabresIUFAN]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So you know that from a draft where they had 5 selections total, 3 of them in the 5th or later? It would be easier for them to scout the OHL than it would be all USA hockey for what it is worth. The team had 2 picks in the top 130, who knows what their drafting philosophy is. It is concerning they don't have a WHL scout by all accounts. 

Also Botterill was no CHL guys and Cozens was the only exception. It wasn't about money but about longer dev time because Botterill was short-sighted. 

I don't see how you can make this declaration from 1 draft where 3 guys from 5th round or later where you could get a dratboard of names and have as much success. 

Lol.  How is someone short sighted if they draft players that allow the organization a longer time to develop them.  That seems far sighted to me.  Considering that the only guys of recent vintage drafted in later rounds to make an impact on the organization are Swedes and college kids this strategy has some merit.  Our friend TM drafted ton of CHL kids and look where they are.  

Your only real complaint is that Jbot and KA didn’t draft the forwards you wanted.  They didn’t draft guys I wanted either.  So what.  It’s about building a deep prospect pool so that the organization has depth and in the last 4 drafts we are moving in that direction.  I agree we could use more forwards but I’m glad the D group in deep.  

Forwards: Cozens, Quinn, JJP, R2 and Asplund and Pekar

Defense:  Bryson, Borgen, Laaksonen, Johnson and Samuelsson

Goalie:  UPL Portillo

This is a pretty good list with many of guys at or getting near NHL ready

Ultimately ignoring CHL players after the first rd isn’t a perfect strategy especially when guys with solid first rd grades fall into the 2nd rd, but it has significant merit in later rounds.  
 

 

 

 

 

[dudacek]

17 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Wonder why they give Torts such good odds? I could see him getting fired, and I could see him getting hired here, but since he's coaching another team right now it hardly seems right to give him the best odds

Because Sabres fans are thirsty for an opposite of Krueger and this is about encouraging fans to place bets.

[PerreaultForever]

Krueger obviously had to go, but I am happier about Steve Smith gone. The way our promising young D men get worse not better has been a thorn in the side for quite a while. 

Everything else is speculation, but today is a start. But just a start. 

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Lol.  How is someone short sighted if they draft players that allow the organization a longer time to develop them.  That seems far sighted to me.  Considering that the only guys of recent vintage drafted in later rounds to make an impact on the organization are Swedes and college kids this strategy has some merit.  Our friend TM drafted ton of CHL kids and look where they are.  

Your only real complaint is that Jbot and KA didn’t draft the forwards you wanted.  They didn’t draft guys I wanted either.  So what.  It’s about building a deep prospect pool so that the organization has depth and in the last 4 drafts we are moving in that direction.  I agree we could use more forwards but I’m glad the D group in deep.  

Forwards: Cozens, Quinn, JJP, R2 and Asplund and Pekar

Defense:  Bryson, Borgen, Laaksonen, Johnson and Samuelsson

Goalie:  UPL Portillo

This is a pretty good list with many of guys at or getting near NHL ready

Ultimately ignoring CHL players after the first rd isn’t a perfect strategy especially when guys with solid first rd grades fall into the 2nd rd, but it has significant merit in later rounds.  
 

 

 

 

 

Ya, ultimately it was how stringent Botterill was to the strategy that was it's failing, to me. And it wasn't just his years here. When I looked back at the Pens drafts he was supposedly running, it was the same thing, zero CHL players outside the first round. It's ok to have a leaning b/c of the development thing, but Sith/absolutes and all that...

[IKnowPhysics]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Krueger obviously had to go, but I am happier about Steve Smith gone. The way our promising young D men get worse not better has been a thorn in the side for quite a while. 

Everything else is speculation, but today is a start. But just a start. 

It was a mixed bag, but generally worse.  Ristolainen seemed to bounce back a bit before COVID, which is nice, but Dahlin's regression has been much worse than Risto's improvement was good, and likely much more impactful to the franchise health.

[PerreaultForever]

6 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

It was a mixed bag, but generally worse.  Ristolainen seemed to bounce back a bit before COVID, which is nice, but Dahlin's regression has been much worse than Risto's improvement was good, and likely much more impactful to the franchise health.

Don't forget Jokiharju's completely fallen apart too. 

[bob_sauve28]

Will we win some games now? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Makes you wonder if Risto’s improvement was more about maturity and less about skills taught be Smith.

[Srw1525]

I don’t think a college coach is the right coach for this club. I like Nate Leaman but he is not the answer 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Makes you wonder if Risto’s improvement was more about maturity and less about skills taught be Smith.

I think that's true. I also think he was always asked to do too much too soon and that's the same thing we've done with Dahlin and to some extent Joker. If you want to develop a complete D man you have to bring them along slowly and not ask them to do too much as they learn and grow. So part of the problem has been the team sucking. As we suck worse coaches have few options to go to but the rest of it is on the teaching and clearly defining their roles.

It also doesn't help when we don't have proper pairings and keep moving people around. Lack of communication on D has been a huge problem for years.

[Kristian]

42 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think that's true. I also think he was always asked to do too much too soon and that's the same thing we've done with Dahlin and to some extent Joker. If you want to develop a complete D man you have to bring them along slowly and not ask them to do too much as they learn and grow. So part of the problem has been the team sucking. As we suck worse coaches have few options to go to but the rest of it is on the teaching and clearly defining their roles.

It also doesn't help when we don't have proper pairings and keep moving people around. Lack of communication on D has been a huge problem for years.

The only two guys who’ve been allowed to play together for extended periods on the roster are Sam and Jack, everyone else have been shuffled around worse than a Vegas deck of cards.

Been that way for as long as I can remember - Even Lindy shuffled like crazy.

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Kristian said:

The only two guys who’ve been allowed to play together for extended periods on the roster are Sam and Jack, everyone else have been shuffled around worse than a Vegas deck of cards.

Been that way for as long as I can remember - Even Lindy shuffled like crazy.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think it is a matter of perspective.

When things are going bad and the coach doesn't change lines....a certain group of people come out and say stuff like "Why are the lines always the same" or "Move things around Try anything!"

If the coach does shuffle lines, then other say "they can't get any chemistry that way" or "leave a group of guys together for a while".

For the most part, I think people are either in the camp of "keep lines together to develop chemistry" or "change things up as soon as they are going bad" ......and when things go bad, you hear from the group that isn't getting what they want out of the lines.

[LabattBlue]

Not that I want Granato as the HC of the Sabres in 2021-2022, but is there any word on when McCabe, Eichel, Cozens or Ullmark are due back.  Without them, they are placeholders....actually they are probably placeholders either way.

[Marvin]

6 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

The Welland Connection on the Bench

I wonder if Paille is willing to join the coaching staff too?

Welcome back.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Will we win some games now? 

Probably not.  They are the same players.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Kristian said:

The only two guys who’ve been allowed to play together for extended periods on the roster are Sam and Jack, everyone else have been shuffled around worse than a Vegas deck of cards.

Been that way for as long as I can remember - Even Lindy shuffled like crazy.

It's D pairs that are more important imo. You can see how Risto and McCabe had some communication and success together but that's about it for stable pairings. Dahlin paired well with Bogo for a brief while but overall it's a mess. 

Rookies should be paired with veterans while they learn, and more offensive minded D men should pair with responsible stay at home guys. Smaller guys with bigger stronger ones. Pairings like Jokiharju and Montour just boggle my mind. 

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, Mustache of God said:

Matt Ellis has been trying as hard as he can his entire life.

This is the Matt Ellis of Matt Ellis posts.

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I feel bad for you if you think Ralph was the problem or this firing fixes anything. There should be no joy. It's like taking drugs, or so I hear. Eventually you need more. And that more? I'm waiting.

Not Dahlin, for sure. Or Skinner. Poor guys just couldn't perform with the current coaching staff. All that should change now.

7 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

Jack Eichle is one happy "capitano" today, im certain of that.

Wouldn't it be..... funny..... if he had a miraculous recovery?

[Huckleberry]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Gallant and boudreau, dunno about the rest.