Fire Kevyn Adams

[JoeSchmoe]

Remember all those prospects we had in the system before KA was hired... Neither do I.

At no point was KA trying to win this year. This is a grow the prospects year... both ones that are on the team, and the ones that aren't here yet.

Maybe they should fire Adams and bring in a guy that would trade a 1st round pick for a 3rd string goalie and a salary dump. That'll get this rebuild kickstarted, eh?

Edited December 6, 2021 by JoeSchmoe
Changed 1st overall to 1st round pick

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I would not fire him now, but there is a real case for doing so IMHO, and it goes like this:

- KA’s choices at goalie indicate either an unacceptable inability to evaluate talent at the most critical position or a decision to tank this season.

- If he’s decided to tank, he’s made a stupid decision that is highly likely to mire the franchise in the same quicksand it’s been in for the last 8 years.

- Even worse, he made that decision despite having the results of the last stupid decision to tank staring him in the face.

- In addition to the tank decision, he had the most precious asset in the NHL — a franchise #1 C — and he couldn’t keep him happy.  And now he wants to tank to have a chance to replace that franchise C?  No thank you.

I don’t necessarily agree with all of the above, but it’s not from outer space.  

Can’t blame Adams for this really; Eichel requested out when he was hired effectively. You can pin that on ownership and Botterill but Adams really had little chance to stop his truck from careening over the edge.

[PerreaultForever]

I would be more on Adams side if he was more honest with the fanbase. Not TOTALLY honest, nobody expects that from any GM in any sport, but a little more. Just lay it out. Stop saying we have a plan and lay the plan out. Don't give us bull about the goaltending, admit it's a tank year (don't expect it to be called that, but use the right buzz words to dance around it so you can admit you never tried hard to get a goalie). 

Just lay out what the plan is and then we can decide if we want to go through that with them and also hold them accountable to that plan. 

Enough of the "we know things the fans don't" stuff. We deserve a little - a little - more after having put up with this crap for so long. 

[Cityo'Rasmii]

but, I report to...

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I would be more on Adams side if he was more honest with the fanbase. Not TOTALLY honest, nobody expects that from any GM in any sport, but a little more. Just lay it out. Stop saying we have a plan and lay the plan out. Don't give us bull about the goaltending, admit it's a tank year (don't expect it to be called that, but use the right buzz words to dance around it so you can admit you never tried hard to get a goalie). 

Just lay out what the plan is and then we can decide if we want to go through that with them and also hold them accountable to that plan. 

Enough of the "we know things the fans don't" stuff. We deserve a little - a little - more after having put up with this crap for so long. 

I completely disagree with this. If it's a tank (and I have truly believed that it is for quite some time), for god's sake don't say it. Why should he give a crap about what the fans think as long as he has a plan and is sticking to it?

Jack's non-answer about it getting personal from "higher up than KA" in that Barstool interview tells me all I need to know. I think once KA knew he lost Jack, the tank was on and the yard sale started, and once again, this is the path we're stuck with.

I think we're in a better position this time around, though. It looks like we actually have some prospects worth a crap, and the team can actually score now (didn't we set a record lowest number of goals scored in one of the tank years?)

Get some more high end talent in the next draft and actually fix the goaltending, and we're in business.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Yes on the experienced defensemen.   Power and Samuelsson will need to see how a respected and seasoned NHL prepares and plays.  Joker, Dahlin, are not the guys to teach them, they are suffering themselves from not having had a solid mentor to play with.  
 

So the last for next year is:

1.  NHL Goalie 

2a and b.  Experienced NHL veteran defenseman. 

They have to get much better at keeping the puck out of our net to compete. 

The bad part is 1 and 2 haven't changed from this offseason. And 1 has been a need since Hutton's third month with the franchise (exempting one blip October of games since). And 2 has been a need since drafting Dahlin. He did have a veteran D-man who was his primary partner his rookie year... Bogosian. And since Bogo was traded he's been mostly paired with Risto, Montour, Miller, Joker, and a touch of Borgen and Casey Nelson. None of them are veteran defensive stalwarts.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Remember all those prospects we had in the system before KA was hired... Neither do I.

At no point was KA trying to win this year. This is a grow the prospects year... both ones that are on the team, and the ones that aren't here yet.

Maybe they should fire Adams and bring in a guy that would trade a 1st overall for a 3rd string goalie and a salary dump. That'll get this rebuild kickstarted, eh?

So you've forgotten...Cozens, Mittlestadt, Dahlin, Joker, UPL, Portillo, Olofsson, Johnson, Asplund, Bryson, etc?

Who has ever suggested the bolded trade?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I would be more on Adams side if he was more honest with the fanbase. Not TOTALLY honest, nobody expects that from any GM in any sport, but a little more. Just lay it out. Stop saying we have a plan and lay the plan out. Don't give us bull about the goaltending, admit it's a tank year (don't expect it to be called that, but use the right buzz words to dance around it so you can admit you never tried hard to get a goalie). 

Just lay out what the plan is and then we can decide if we want to go through that with them and also hold them accountable to that plan. 

Enough of the "we know things the fans don't" stuff. We deserve a little - a little - more after having put up with this crap for so long. 

Don't you mean "say what I think is happening?" 

[Randall Flagg]

I'm not ready to fire Kevyn. My gut instinct with him has always been positive, which was such a relief after Jason lost me the first time I heard him talk. 

But I would like Kevyn to tell me how he can be sure that losing like this won't affect this core of prospects like it did the last one, with a thoughtful, concrete, convincing explanation

And he needs to blow me away in the goaltending department sooner than later given what he accepted as the backup situation for an unproven, injury-prone goalie last year, and whatever you call what he stitched together this year, because I have been horrified by his decision-making in this regard

Also, I love a lot of what I see and hear from Granato, and don't think that I have anything bad to say about him. But Ralph's hot start in his first (full) season as Sabres coach lasted twice as long as Don's did, and we know how that turned out. 

We are in an unstable situation, but our hope feels more grounded in reality than it has in the past. We can basically go in any direction from here 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm not ready to fire Kevyn. My gut instinct with him has always been positive, which was such a relief after Jason lost me the first time I heard him talk. 

But I would like Kevyn to tell me how he can be sure that losing like this won't affect this core of prospects like it did the last one, with a thoughtful, concrete, convincing explanation

And he needs to blow me away in the goaltending department sooner than later given what he accepted as the backup situation for an unproven, injury-prone goalie last year, and whatever you call what he stitched together this year, because I have been horrified by his decision-making in this regard

Also, I love a lot of what I see and hear from Granato, and don't think that I have anything bad to say about him. But Ralph's hot start in his first (full) season as Sabres coach lasted twice as long as Don's did, and we know how that turned out. 

We are in an unstable situation, but our hope feels more grounded in reality than it has in the past. We can basically go in any direction from here 

It did.  But only because his 1st year started when seasons normally start.  Granato's didn't start until 1/2 way through October.  Both their teams turned into pumpkins when November rolled in. 

[JoeSchmoe]

56 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Who has ever suggested the bolded trade?

Sorry... I meant first rounder.

[Brawndo]

Adams did speak with Pegula about moving Jack shortly after the Eichel made His Request in the Summer of 2019. Pegula said no let’s try one more time with this core

Adams knowing it wouldn’t work, did not sign anyone to crippling long term deals.

He did ice the team with the lowest payroll for this season so far, but in exchange finally got to shape the Hockey Department and build the analytics department the way he wanted to, explaining that is the best path to achieve an Efficient, Effective and Economic Department as well as a winner to Pegulas. 
 

Lance Lysowski and Vogl both hinted at last years TDL that Ullmark and the Sabres were in discussions about an extension and that they felt comfortable not trading Him. They did offer a 3 year 5 Million AAV Deal, but Boston’s Deal plus the chance to play for a winner made Buffalo a no go.
 

Calls were made to higher profile UFAs, but the Team’s Reputation proceeded it. 

As far as missing out on the Ned Trade, let’s just say attempted poachers will be prosecuted. 

Has Adams failed in the goaltending department absolutely, but He has tried. 

Also on a separate point Karmamos and Ventura have a bigger say in Hockey Ops than realized. 
 

Between the talent that has been brought into Hockey Ops and the potential talent drafted in the past two drafts, firing Adams at this point would be ludicrous. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Adams did speak with Pegula about moving Jack shortly after the Eichel made His Request in the Summer of 2019. Pegula said no let’s try one more time with this core

Adams knowing it wouldn’t work, did not sign anyone to crippling long term deals.

He did ice the team with the lowest payroll for this season so far, but in exchange finally got to shape the Hockey Department and build the analytics department the way he wanted to, explaining that is the best path to achieve an Efficient, Effective and Economic Department as well as a winner to Pegulas. 
 

Lance Lysowski and Vogl both hinted at last years TDL that Ullmark and the Sabres were in discussions about an extension and that they felt comfortable not trading Him. They did offer a 3 year 5 Million AAV Deal, but Boston’s Deal plus the chance to play for a winner made Buffalo a no go.
 

Calls were made to higher profile UFAs, but the Team’s Reputation proceeded it. 

As far as missing out on the Ned Trade, let’s just say attempted poachers will be prosecuted. 

Has Adams failed in the goaltending department absolutely, but He has tried. 

Also on a separate point Karmamos and Ventura have a bigger say in Hockey Ops than realized. 
 

Between the talent that has been brought into Hockey Ops and the potential talent drafted in the past two drafts, firing Adams at this point would be ludicrous. 

This is all when and good, but when does all this “trying” become succeeding.  KA made clear he wouldn’t commit any serious assets to making any deals this off-season.  You may consider that trying but I don’t.  He also has shown himself to be a poor pro talent evaluator so far and if he doesn’t start succeeding soon, he needs to gone as the GM.  For example, he spent 2.8 mill of his precious cap space this season on Butcher, money that should have been spent on goaltending.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[SabresVet]

At this point, who would be willing to work if Adams was fired (which I don't think he will be)?  Any prospective GM would accept a limited budget, meddling owners, and poor organizational reputation resulting from those 2 items.  

Ownership backed themselves up against a wall not conducting a true search and now it's time to let it ride with this decision.  

 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, SwampD said:

I think we're in a better position this time around, though. It looks like we actually have some prospects worth a crap, and the team can actually score now (didn't we set a record lowest number of goals scored in one of the tank years?)

How are we really in a better position? (I mean we might be, but until we see it, it's all just hope and prayer) Last time we were supposed to have had the better of Reinhart/Draisaitl, we had a "generational player" coming, we'd already gotten our 2 way second line center (ROR), we had a big physical D man and an elite power forward who had just been misunderstood in Winnipeg and we had a big young Swedish viking goalie who was going to be an allstar plus some other prospects. That was all supposed to make it happen. How is this one better than that? 

(again, it might be, but hindsight and all that) 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Don't you mean "say what I think is happening?" 

cute, but no.

I guess I just want to feel some level of confidence that they have a decent plan. Something to grasp onto to make it worth hanging on. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

44 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

At this point, who would be willing to work if Adams was fired (which I don't think he will be)?  Any prospective GM would accept a limited budget, meddling owners, and poor organizational reputation resulting from those 2 items.  

Ownership backed themselves up against a wall not conducting a true search and now it's time to let it ride with this decision.  

 

This is probably true, which is why I’m advocating kicking Adams upstairs and give Karmanos the real power.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

At this point, who would be willing to work if Adams was fired (which I don't think he will be)?  Any prospective GM would accept a limited budget, meddling owners, and poor organizational reputation resulting from those 2 items.  

Ownership backed themselves up against a wall not conducting a true search and now it's time to let it ride with this decision.  

 

Every single one who is out of work. (multi) million dollar a year job, you kidding me? and it's not even a kiss of death as you see JBott landed another gig, so anybody can . Well maybe not Kreuger 🙂

You give a guy a multi year contract and he will come in and proclaim how he's going to fix the culture and restore pride just like all the rest ad infinitum. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

This season is nothing like the tank years.

Adams did not trade everyone for picks and / or low end long-term prospects in a desparate attempt to draft #1.

This is all about growth of the young players that will be the Sabres going forward.  

The goalie situation is not good, but if Adams brought in anyone other than the goalies he has it would be a direct contradiction of his stated plan and goal for this year.

Look at how far most of the players have come this year.

Edited December 6, 2021 by The Ghost of Doohickie
more goodly words

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

This season is nothing like the tank years.

Adams did not trade everyone for picks and / or low end long-term prospects in a desparate attempt to draft #1.

This is all about growth of the young players that will be the Sabres going forward.  

The goalie situation is not good, but if Adams brought in anyone other than the goalies he has it would be a direct contradiction of his stated plan and goal for this year.

Look at how far most of the players have come this year.

He already contradicted himself by trying to re-sign Ullmark.  Trying to retain Ullmark was an attempt to properly support a young team.  Replacing Ullmark with Anderson, Dell and Subban is exact opposite and an attempt to tank. He can’t say he wants to build a winning culture and then give the team the goaltending he has.

[inkman]

5 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

This season is nothing like the tank years.

Adams did not trade everyone for picks and / or low end long-term prospects in a desparate attempt to draft #1.

This is all about growth of the young players that will be the Sabres going forward.  

The goalie situation is not good, but if Adams brought in anyone other than the goalies he has it would be a direct contradiction of his stated plan and goal for this year.

Look at how far most of the players have come this year.

Here here.  I think GMKA’s original plan was to have Ullmark return.  When Boston offered Linus that contract, Adams punted.  Considering we have UPL, Levi and Portillo waiting in the wings, I don’t blame him for that.  His next plan was for UPL to take over the goaltending reigns.  After a suboptimal preseason, that plan was quickly altered.  Anderson became the main guy with Toker backing him up until UPL was ready.  Not ideal but not disastrous.  Then Anderson gets hurt, Toker goes down and we are in goalie hell.  Hard to kill GMKA when plans A,B,C and D didn’t work out. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He already contradicted himself by trying to re-sign Ullmark.  Trying to retain Ullmark was an attempt to properly support a young team.  Replacing Ullmark with Anderson, Dell and Subban is exact opposite and an attempt to tank. He can’t say he wants to build a winning culture and then give the team the goaltending he has.

I agree that the original plan was to sign Ullie for 2 years until some of the goalie prospects were ready for the NHL, as Inky stated below.  When the Bruins made the kind of offer that Adams was not prepared to do he changed courses.  Anderson would have been fine and Toker would have spelled him nicely.  Dell was insurance.  Injuries happened and here we are.  

I agree with Inky that we can't blame Adams for the injuries and I actually respect him for sticking with his plan and not going off half-cocked.

[nfreeman]

If KA were willing to give Ullmark a 3-year deal @ $5MM per year, he could've, and should've, found another goalie for that kind of contract instead of settling for the losers the Sabres currently have at the position, which he should've known would've chained an anchor to a team struggling to keep their heads above water.

They've now lost 14 out of 17 and look utterly lost and like they expect to lose.  We've seen this movie before.

There is an unacceptably high risk that another bottom-3 finish will suffuse this group of kids with an ineradicable stink of losing in the same way the prior tank did to the prior group.

[SabresVet]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Every single one who is out of work. (multi) million dollar a year job, you kidding me? and it's not even a kiss of death as you see JBott landed another gig, so anybody can . Well maybe not Kreuger 🙂

You give a guy a multi year contract and he will come in and proclaim how he's going to fix the culture and restore pride just like all the rest ad infinitum. 

A currently out of work NHL executive isn't about to take a job where you're set up to fail.  Put it this way: what if you're a recently unemployed but successful sales manager being recruited by a company with 5 years of declining sales, an aging product line, and has credit issues.  Oh, and the market has major competitors without those issues.  You taking that job?  You think you can work within those operating parameters?  They're going to pay you 100k to start, but upper management has shown little willingness to change and expects you to create miracles.  

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

cute, but no.

I guess I just want to feel some level of confidence that they have a decent plan. Something to grasp onto to make it worth hanging on. 

I feel like they do have a plan. But people can't bear to wait another 3 seasons for it to develop. That itchiness for a quick fix got us where we are now. ZFG GM Tim Murray emptying our prospect pool for nut jobs and bad eggs. (You can guess who I'm referring to.)

Nothing ever works out exactly as you plan, and the goaltending issues this year are an example of that. But we have players that are shining at every level: NHL, AHL, college and juniors. We just have to fight the urge to do something rash for a quick fix.

To be honest my bigger worry is whether Buffalo is a viable sports market going forward. I think we all took for granted our friends across the border. But that extra couple hundred thousand population makes a big difference for not only the Sabres but the Bandits.

It's really sad too. When I was 11 I used to pedal my bike over the Peace Bridge and it was no big deal. Now it's a freaking interrogation. We are getting too used to not visiting each other. We can't lose that closeness. If people feel like it's too much bother to come to town for games I don't know what our long term prospects are.

Edited December 6, 2021 by PromoTheRobot