How bad is it? The Sabres compared to the Tank

[LGR4GM]

[DarthEbriate]

If into the security recordings you go, only pain will you find.

[#freejame]

We’ve improved!

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, #freejame said:

We’ve improved!

[pi2000]

That's not a fair comparison.

Imagine if that tank team played a top 5 team in the league most nights.  They might have only 1 or 2 wins over that stretch.

Not an excuse, but when a team is struggling searching for confidence, under normal circumstances they'd eventually play a team or two that are softies... Put up a bunch of goals and snap out of their funk.

Buffalo gets the Flyers, Islanders, Bruins, Pittsburgh for the next 2 weeks, so this thing has the potential to snowball into the likes of something never seen before.

[LGR4GM]

Didn't we play the Devils and Rangers like 5-6 times already?

[Thorner]

They were also, ya know, TRYING to lose 

[Randall Flagg]

9 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

That's not a fair comparison.

Imagine if that tank team played a top 5 team in the league most nights.  They might have only 1 or 2 wins over that stretch.

Not an excuse, but when a team is struggling searching for confidence, under normal circumstances they'd eventually play a team or two that are softies... Put up a bunch of goals and snap out of their funk.

Buffalo gets the Flyers, Islanders, Bruins, Pittsburgh for the next 2 weeks, so this thing has the potential to snowball into the likes of something never seen before.

Yep. In a normal league year, I don't think the situation is quite so dire. Granted,I still think we'd be plodding along at our typical 80 point pace, and we'd all be futious,but it wouldn't be quite like this. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Yep. In a normal league year, I don't think the situation is quite so dire. Granted,I still think we'd be plodding along at our typical 80 point pace, and we'd all be futious,but it wouldn't be quite like this. 

I know we are talking a normal year so this is different, but currently we are plodding along at about a 60ish point pace. 

[Thorner]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I know we are talking a normal year so this is different, but currently we are plodding along at about a 60ish point pace. 

If we played a full 82 we wouldn’t get enough points to make it, the other teams still playing 56 

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I know we are talking a normal year so this is different, but currently we are plodding along at about a 60ish point pace. 

Yep, I think the teams we happened to get stuck with make up a lot of the difference. If our schedule had typical opponents we'd do a little better. I made a post about it elsewhere, but over the last 2 seasons, we play the teams in our division at a 67 point pace, but everyone else at an 82 point pace. Something about the way we're constructed just happens to be ideal to the teams in the Eastern division more so than any other division. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[Thorner]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

Yep, I think the teams we happened to get stuck with make up the difference. If our schedule had typical opponents we'd do a little better. I made a post about it elsewhere, but over the last 2 seasons, we play the teams in our division at a 67 point pace, but everyone else at an 82 point pace. Something about the way we're constructed just happens to be ideal to the teams in the Eastern division more so than any other division. 

It’s true, we may be closer to our ~ mid-high 70s pacing, which is obviously still bad, but it’s more of a relative thing - this roster was supposed to be much improved, and division or not, did not improve. 

Ya they’ve been extra handicapped by the division, and the tank teams were handicapped by a management group that was actively trying to lose. 

This team probably beats the tank team, not saying it wouldn’t. 

Well unless Krueger is coaching 

[pi2000]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I know we are talking a normal year so this is different, but currently we are plodding along at about a 60ish point pace. 

If they were in the North division, they might be scoring a bunch, have a winning record and everyone would be excited for playoffs. 

The deck was stacked against them from the get go, plus key injuries, covid, little practice time with 6 new forwards trying to learn how to play with eachother, Eichel injury, 10 month layoff, playing in an 8 team league with 6 playoff teams from last year, etc..  That's why they're not firing anybody.

So yeah it bugs me that everybody is spouting off about how they're on par with the tank teams, etc etc... without understanding that this season is unlike any other.  

That said, Ralph kinda sucks doesn't he?

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

If they were in the North division, they might be scoring a bunch, have a winning record and everyone would be excited for playoffs. 

The deck was stacked against them from the get go, plus key injuries, covid, little practice time with 6 new forwards trying to learn how to play with eachother, Eichel injury, 10 month layoff, playing in an 8 team league with 6 playoff teams from last year, etc..  That's why they're not firing anybody.

So yeah it bugs me that everybody is spouting off about how they're on par with the tank teams, etc etc... without understanding that this season is unlike any other.  

That said, Ralph kinda sucks doesn't he?

I got it but I just think those are excuses. All teams face injuries and had to deal with covid stuff. I agree our division is tough but this team isn't just losing, they are being dominated night in and night out. 

[Thorner]

Just now, pi2000 said:

If they were in the North division, they might be scoring a bunch, have a winning record and everyone would be excited for playoffs. 

The deck was stacked against them from the get go, plus key injuries, covid, little practice time with 6 new forwards trying to learn how to play with eachother, Eichel injury, 10 month layoff, playing in an 8 team league with 6 playoff teams from last year, etc..  That's why they're not firing anybody.

So yeah it bugs me that everybody is spouting off about how they're on par with the tank teams, etc etc... without understanding that this season is unlike any other.  

That said, Ralph kinda sucks doesn't he?

As far as I know, @Randall Flagg‘s numbers wouldn’t seem to suggest this, based on the “pace against the rest” he mentioned. 

We are also underperforming vs the teams in our division relative to normal. We were a near bottom team that one way or another got worse, and I agree we’d be better in an easier division, but there nothing to indicate we’d be in the playoff mix, however, imo. 

[Randall Flagg]

There was no excuse to not have a team capable of overcoming those issues for sure. Regardless of situation, they failed. I think circumstance allowed it to be particularly ugly.

[pi2000]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

As far as I know, @Randall Flagg‘s numbers wouldn’t seem to suggest this, based on the “pace against the rest” he mentioned. 

We are also underperforming vs the teams in our division relative to normal. We were a near bottom team that one way or another got worse, and I agree we’d be better in an easier division, but there nothing to indicate we’d be in the playoff mix, however, imo. 

As some who played at a high level, there's a distinct difference in the amount of "buzz" in the lockerroom when going into a game you know you can win vs a game you think you can win.    Playing all these top teams night in and night out is taking it's toll and will only get worse believe it or not.   

I understand they're pros and thats what they get paid to do, but they're human.   It's just a really ***** set of circumstances.   I'd be OK if they tried a different coach, but hearing the players speak, I don't think it would change much... maybe briefly.  They need confidence more than anything.

[NAF]

Are the Sabres are the worst organization in American professional sports (of football, baseball, hockey and basketball)? I don't really follow baseball but can't think of a football or basketball team worse than them. Maybe the Minnesota Timberwolves or the Charlotte Hornets are worse but I'm really having a hard time coming up with anything else.

[SDS]

32 minutes ago, Thorny said:

They were also, ya know, TRYING to lose 

Tim Murray was. I think the players did their best.

3 minutes ago, NAF said:

Are the Sabres are the worst organization in American professional sports (of football, baseball, hockey and basketball)? I don't really follow baseball but can't think of a football or basketball team worse than them. Maybe the Minnesota Timberwolves or the Charlotte Hornets are worse but I'm really having a hard time coming up with anything else.

The Baltimore Orioles.

[Marvin]

IMHO, there is no excuse for being this bad.  IMHO, the roster is clearly better than the NYR and NJD -- even if we account for potential declines in the performances of Staal and Hall due to age.   There is no excuse for Skinner getting benched.  There is no reason for Olofsson not being put on a lower line to improve his overall passing and defencive coverage.  There is no justification for Okposo being in the top 6.  And that's just the top 6 forwards.  The Bottom 6 could be improved just by rebalancing the lines.  Why are Dahlin and Ristolainen playing together when they need the same kind of partner to let them play their game?  Just changing the coach will help immensely.

[Cal Naughton Jr]

But at least those jerseys look sharp

[Sabre fan]

Yep their jerseys are beautiful...by far the best looking losers in the NHL...

[Thorner]

31 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

As some who played at a high level, there's a distinct difference in the amount of "buzz" in the lockerroom when going into a game you know you can win vs a game you think you can win.    Playing all these top teams night in and night out is taking it's toll and will only get worse believe it or not.   

I understand they're pros and thats what they get paid to do, but they're human.   It's just a really ***** set of circumstances.   I'd be OK if they tried a different coach, but hearing the players speak, I don't think it would change much... maybe briefly.  They need confidence more than anything.

But they are playing worse relative to how they've even played those teams in the recent past, with an "improved" roster. 

I get that disappointment sets in but we are like 20 games in and we started off from the get go losing to the teams. The excuses account for just how bad we are but we'd assuredly be bad regardless. 

[Thorner]

32 minutes ago, SDS said:

Tim Murray was. I think the players did their best.

The Baltimore Orioles.

But it was a roster continually depleted as the season wore on, to aid in the tank efforts. Constructed to lose. I think people are missing the forest for the trees here: we aren't actually as bad as the tank teams (do people actually think that?) it's the fact it can even be compared that's the strinking thing.

That they can reasonably be compared is point enough. Those are *historically* bad teams that we are moreless matching right now, yes, external circumstances noted. 

As for the comparisons, Sabres are the Lions basically right now in my view

Edited March 5, 2021 by Thorny

[darksabre]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

They were also, ya know, TRYING to lose 

I think what's funny is that a lot of players on those tank teams were really honestly trying to win games. They never gave up because I think they were fully aware that they were expected to be bad.

These current teams, expected to be simply okay, roll over and die at the slightest hint of adversity. Just incredibly fragile, hopeless, and without any sense of pride. They aren't trying to prove anyone wrong like the tank players were, and it shows.