Oh Captain My Captain: Former Sabres weigh in on this disaster

[Thorner]

@Marvin, Sabres Fan ^It probably comes back to the fact I don't put much stock in what things "seem" like - GMs are paid to get results, not to operate to the best of their ability based on their interpretation of the information available at that time. Doing was "seems" right is far, far too low a bar. They are paid to get results that are reflective of moves that are, in hindsight, good moves. 

It's what I argued about with John all offseason, the desire to wait before we claimed Adams' offseason a success, that it could only be judged on results. There was a belief that Adams could be credited with improving the roster before we played a game. 

What's their record?

Edited March 5, 2021 by Thorny

[Norcal]

Do any of these former captains coach? Any of them wanna come in and advise the Pegulas? 

[Norcal]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It's moreso what it implies for talent evaluation

Must have been watching his midnight workouts 

[Mustache of God]

That was a very depressing read. Nothing that wasn't obvious from watching this team but it still hit hard this morning.

[DarthEbriate]

1 minute ago, Ice Cold said:

I think Pegula was on the right track hiring LaFontaine to be President of Hockey Ops.  You look at executives like Shanahan, or Neely, or Yzerman as the foundation.  How many other guys like that are out there?  Who would you suggest in that mold of unquestionable leader?

You let that guy hire the GM, coach, and run the whole shebang without interfering as an owner.  It's got to be a guy that can really be trusted.  I can't think of who that would be from the Sabres.  Not Drury, not Ruff, and obviously not LaFontaine.

The concept of PoHO is good. I still think PLF had way too many red flags (if I recall the story correctly, the single dinner "great idea" became the hire + the whole he ditched the Islanders after just a few months as well in a previous position). It didn't have enough due diligence and PLF didn't have the track record.

But... an experience PoHO that allows the Pegulas to just donate money and let the machine run is a good idea. That person could also be the GM if the GM is good/experienced enough.

What that person should not be is the coach who should be solely focused on the team and winning of games today and tomorrow and the next day. A GM needs the 3- and 5-year plans, and the PoHO needs the franchise-M.O., the 10-year and community-building (and stadium-building) vision and act as the owner liaison.

[SDS]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

There's also a line in there about how Krueger isn't an x's and o's guy which means he needs great assistance to help with film breakdown and the system. 

 

1 hour ago, nucci said:

then why is he HC?

Ted?

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

@Marvin, Sabres Fan ^It probably comes back to the fact I don't put much stock in what things "seem" like - GMs are paid to get results, not to operate to the best of their ability based on their interpretation of the information available at that time. Doing was "seems" right is far, far too low a bar. They are paid to get results that are reflective of moves that are, in hindsight, good moves. 

It's what I argued about with John all offseason, the desire to wait before we claimed Adams' offseason a success, that it could only be judged on results. There was a belief that Adams could be credited with improving the roster before we played a game. 

What's their record?

The difference between you and me is that I put much more blame on the coach.  IMHO, KA had no choice on that front; therefore I absolve him of the blame for hiring an incompetent.

IMHO, this roster should contend for a playoff spot with passable coaching.  But RK verges on Ron Rolston bad.  IMHO, only a quasi-all-star line-up can overcome his level of incompetence -- and the Sabres were never getting that this season.

That's why I am OK with him being kept around to learn somewhere other than GM.

[nucci]

4 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

Ted?

Nolan had Hasek and won many games 1-0 and 2-1 giving up 40 shots a game

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The difference between you and me is that I put much more blame on the coach.  IMHO, KA had no choice on that front; therefore I absolve him of the blame for hiring an incompetent.

IMHO, this roster should contend for a playoff spot with passable coaching.  But RK verges on Ron Rolston bad.  IMHO, only a quasi-all-star line-up can overcome his level of incompetence -- and the Sabres were never getting that this season.

That's why I am OK with him being kept around to learn somewhere other than GM.

I'm also OK with retaining Adams in a different position. I don't have much feeling towards him because to me it's more like we have NO gm than a bad one - I see him as a conduit for the other cerberus heads

FTR I put a lot of blame on Krueger. My thing is there are a lot of issues. Meaning the top is rotten. 

[Thorner]

I think Krueger's comments on Risto last game should have him objectively fired 

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, Ice Cold said:

Here's my the second candidate I will put forward to be PoHO.  Dani Rylan.  Something completely different.  

Dani Rylan Kearney (born August 5, 1987) is an American entrepreneur and former ice hockey player. She is the founder and former commissioner of the National Women's Hockey League (NWHL),[1][2] the first professional women's hockey league in the United States, and the first professional women's hockey league ever to pay its players in North America.[3] Prior to launching the league in March 2015, Rylan attempted to bring a CWHL expansion team to New York in 2014.[4] She previously played with the Northeastern Huskies women's ice hockey program in NCAA play and was a captain in her final season.

Wow.  That's on par with Monty Python's Flying Circus's completely different.  You really put your foot in it.

(Stupid puns are how I am coping with the Sabres.)

[Kruppstahl]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This Captain was from the Lindy Ruff era. Also... this might be the best thing I have ever read. Not this quote specifically but this article. 

That quote is great.  Whoever said that gets it.

He rightly points out that Mittelstadt is "nothing".  Very true.

 

[Stoner]

So who we got here? Robert for sure. The Sabres' "clubhouse lawyer" in the words of Bob Swados.

[Randall Flagg]

WHL reference - Gare?

[bunomatic]

The Pegulas have destroyed the brand.  The team is viewed as a laughingstock. They are owners sure but its their job to carry the torch and one day hand it off to the next owner. Hopefully they can restore this team to its former standing. I have my doubts.

[bob_sauve28]

4 hours ago, WildCard said:

Officially the laughing stock of the league. I can't wait for the day we fire Adams.

Edit: Am I the only one that wants Adams gone?

Not getting goaltender in the off season was rather big mistake

[Kruppstahl]

4 hours ago, WildCard said:

Officially the laughing stock of the league. I can't wait for the day we fire Adams.

Edit: Am I the only one that wants Adams gone?

You know, firing Adams might not really have an impact on anything, if in fact he is just a proxy for the Pegulas.

I'm not even sure Ralph Krueger is subordinate to him.  I think Ralph is the #1 guy in the hockey department, the Pegulas are calling a lot of the shots, and it all gets filtered through the Xs and Os of turning things into reality through Kevyn Adams.

Adams is first and foremost a Pegula yes man.

So you get rid of him and then what?  You still have the Pegulas telling the next guy what to do.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I think Krueger's comments on Risto last game should have him objectively fired 

I'm about to listen to last night's post-game show right now.  I'll watch out for Krueger's comments on Risto.

WGR-550 has not been posting the post-game show on the website the last few games after the game, but then they do it the following morning.

Pisses me off.

 

[Kristian]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

Nolan had Hasek and won many games 1-0 and 2-1 giving up 40 shots a game

....and basically nobody else.

[John Tucker]

2 hours ago, Ice Cold said:

I think Pegula was on the right track hiring LaFontaine to be President of Hockey Ops.  You look at executives like Shanahan, or Neely, or Yzerman as the foundation.  How many other guys like that are out there?  Who would you suggest in that mold of unquestionable leader?

You let that guy hire the GM, coach, and run the whole shebang without interfering as an owner.  It's got to be a guy that can really be trusted.  I can't think of who that would be from the Sabres.  Not Drury, not Ruff, and obviously not LaFontaine.

I still wish we knew why Patty was run out of town.  Was it ever actually brought to light?

[Kristian]

Just now, John Tucker said:

I still wish we knew why Patty was run out of town.  Was it ever actually brought to light?

He may just have been a very good judge of character, but who knows?

[John Tucker]

5 minutes ago, Kristian said:

He may just have been a very good judge of character, but who knows?

I always viewed Patty as someone that would've been a perfect fit for that role and have thought kicking him to the curb was his first BIG mistake, but what do I know!!

Edited March 5, 2021 by John Tucker

[SDS]

Are we now at the point where we glamorize the players here during the tank years? 

Maybe my memory is faulty, but I don't remember many fond words written about that group here. My memory isn't the greatest though.

[Norcal]

2 hours ago, Ice Cold said:

I think Pegula was on the right track hiring LaFontaine to be President of Hockey Ops.  You look at executives like Shanahan, or Neely, or Yzerman as the foundation.  How many other guys like that are out there?  Who would you suggest in that mold of unquestionable leader?

You let that guy hire the GM, coach, and run the whole shebang without interfering as an owner.  It's got to be a guy that can really be trusted.  I can't think of who that would be from the Sabres.  Not Drury, not Ruff, and obviously not LaFontaine.

The LaFontaine hiring felt great at the time. I almost felt like I did watching him play, in terms of what I thought he would do with the franchise.

Ruff has been good behind the bench, I wonder if he will move up into management some day.

[John Tucker]

10 minutes ago, SDS said:

Are we now at the point where we glamorize the players here during the tank years? 

Maybe my memory is faulty, but I don't remember many fond words written about that group here. My memory isn't the greatest though.

When Cody Hodgson leads the team in points, there's a good reason why it's tough to remember much about a team!!  

[John Tucker]

5 minutes ago, Norcal said:

The LaFontaine hiring felt great at the time. I almost felt like I did watching him play, in terms of what I thought he would do with the franchise.

Ruff has been good behind the bench, I wonder if he will move up into management some day.

His departure was so shady and felt like it was the start of what we all know as a trend with this ownership.  

Edited March 5, 2021 by John Tucker