2021 Buffalo Bills

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I hate to be arguing pro-CC because I don't like him much myself, but here's the thing:  The Bills haven't won anything.  The Chiefs are the reining AFC champs and recent Super Bowl champs.  When Bills start winning in the post season, the droolers like CC will be drooling over the Bills.  Until then don't expect the Bills to get any respect on national broadcasts. 

I’m all for the earning respect storyline but they were doing exactly that by dominating the game last night. He refused to shift the narrative of the Bills as the game went on. The Bills won two games last postseason. They’re in the conversation for best team in the league right now. He failed to do his job.

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, inkman said:

Rather than just stating your opinion, why not provide some empirical evidence. 

I know All Star games aren’t a great marker but it’s notable that he’s been to two Pro Bowls in three seasons. He was voted defensive player of the week last week. Every time the Bills play in prime time he is brought up as someone who has a lot of respect and envy throughout the league. The team has voted him captain multiple times.

McDermott, who is one of the best defensive minds in the game, turns to him when he credits this defense. When the defense struggled towards the beginning of last year Edmunds was hurt and struggling on the field. When he got healthy and his play improved so too did the overall defensive performance. He’s the lynchpin of one of the league’s best (THE best?) defenses and has been for more than just this season.

 

Just now seeing this article about this very topic from Buscaglia: https://theathletic.com/2875908/2021/10/08/why-cant-tremaine-edmunds-win-over-bills-fans-when-hes-viewed-as-a-special-player-outside-of-buffalo/?amp

Frazier was asked directly why Bills fans seem to be the only group that don’t love Edmunds. He said: “I’ve tried to pinpoint that myself because when I talk to all my colleagues around the league, they rave about him. And then here, I know sometimes people wonder. Down in our locker room, out on the field and in our management … everybody knows his value and how important he is to us. But for some reason — I don’t know. I don’t know quite why.”

Beane compared the criticism by Bills fans to Josh Allen’s rookie season and Lorenzo Alexander said there aren’t many middle linebackers in the league better than him.

Each noted that he is young and took some time to develop and Frazier mentioned it’s partly because they ask him to play roles most middle linebackers don’t (like cover slot receivers).

[Doohicksie]

29 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I’m all for the earning respect storyline but they were doing exactly that by dominating the game last night. He refused to shift the narrative of the Bills as the game went on. The Bills won two games last postseason. They’re in the conversation for best team in the league right now. He failed to do his job.

We won 2 post season games?  How many Super Bowls is that?  Seriously, winning early season games won't earn respect.  Winning a playoff game or two won't.  Super Bowl appearances will.  And you know what?  I don't care.  I want them to dis us all season long.  Respect means nothing to me.  I want to see the Bills win the Super Bowl.  Anything less doesn't matter at this point.  We've been down this road before.  That's part of the reason they got no respect now:  They never won the big game.

[Hoss]

30 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

We won 2 post season games?  How many Super Bowls is that?  Seriously, winning early season games won't earn respect.  Winning a playoff game or two won't.  Super Bowl appearances will.  And you know what?  I don't care.  I want them to dis us all season long.  Respect means nothing to me.  I want to see the Bills win the Super Bowl.  Anything less doesn't matter at this point.  We've been down this road before.  That's part of the reason they got no respect now:  They never won the big game.

The Bills and Chiefs won the same number of playoff games last year. If winning a Super Bowl is a prerequisite to earning high praise on national tv then why would the NFL ever give prime time games to teams that haven’t?

This is basically just macho fan completely neglecting the conversation just to say what everyone else believes in a confrontational form. Yes, everyone wants a Super Bowl. Yes, everyone understands nothing truly matters until then. Yes, we can see that while believing getting recognition and making our national broadcasts more enjoyable for our fanbase is fair.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Hoss

[Taro T]

Gruden out as Raiders HC per Shefter on MNF HT show.  Guess their ST Coach has the inside track to be the interim HC.

Zay Jones & Nathan Peterman can NOT be happy about this development as really doubt anyone else in the league believes they belong in the league.

[Flashsabre]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Building the Bills

Whaley/McDermott

2017 - White (star), Zay Jones (traded), Dawkins (starter), Milano (star), Peterman and Vellejo - all 6 currently in the NFL w 3 Bills starters - Jones only real disappointment.  Grade A (Missing on Jones only negative)

Beane's drafting

2018 - Allen (Star), Edmunds (star), Phillips (depth), Taron Johnson (starter), Neal (key depth), Teller (Browns starter), McCloud (Pitt return specialist) and Proehl - Only Proehl never played in the NFL.  2 All-Pros and 3 key depth.  Only real mistake was losing Teller.  Grade A++

2019 - Oliver (starter), Ford (benched), Singletary (part time starter), Knox (becoming a star), Joseph, J Johnson (depth), D Johnson (Carolina depth), Sweeney (depth). - All but Joseph in the NFL.  6 current Bills with Oliver and Knox having the most impact.  Grade B+ (Ford drops grade and Singletary also looks like he is losing his job)

2020 - Epenesa (Key Depth), Moss (Starter), Davis (Key Depth),  Fromm (practice squad QB), Bass (Star kicker), Hodgins (practice squad), D Jackson (depth).  Whole draft part of the organization. Grade B+ but could become an A as Moss and Epenesa improve their status. Moss looks primed to be the No. 1 running back.  Bass was worth the pick. 

2021 -  Rousseau (starter), Basham (depth), Brown (starter), Doyle (depth), Stevenson (IR), Hamlin (depth), Wildgoose (PS), Anderson (lost to Philly).  Rousseau looks like a stud, Brown has been awesome since becoming a starter.  Grade A 

Honestly, the only guy who Beane "missed" on are Ford.  Ford still has a chance to become a good player.  This is really impressive.  9 starters (3 pro-bowl caliber players, plus 6 key depth players.  31 picks overall with 24 NFL players plus 1 IR and 4 PS players.  Only 5th round Vosean Joseph and 7th round Austin Proehl not in the NFL.  Wow. 

I have a feeling Marquez Stevenson might have that “special” trait to him. Might have to wait another year to get a shot but Bills WR depth is pretty impressive with Sanders becoming such a key piece for Allen.

[WildCard]

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Gruden out as Raiders HC per Shefter on MNF HT show.  Guess their ST Coach has the inside track to be the interim HC.

Zay Jones & Nathan Peterman can NOT be happy about this development as really doubt anyone else in the league believes they belong in the league.

The emails are out there for those curious. They're something alright.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

The emails are out there for those curious. They're something alright.

Will take your word for it.  Shefter made them sound pretty bad.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

You haven’t provided any. 
🤷‍♂️

🤷‍♂️ You are correct.  Edmunds is the greatest professional athlete ever. 

[sodbuster]

This is bad and everything, but it's painfully obvious that the league leaked this to distract from something bigger that was found in the WFT investigation.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by sodbuster

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, sodbuster said:

This is bad and everything, but it's painfully obvious that the league leaked this to distract from something bigger that was found in the WFT investigation.

 

It actually sounds like this might have been part of that investigation as IIHC some of the e-mails were to a former Washington executive apparently.

 

But interesting how this whole thing leaked in about 2 days & there's been pretty much crickets on the Snyder investigation.

[Hoss]

Just now, inkman said:

I just want data.  Apparently because I didn’t post any data not supporting 49, I’m not allowed to say anything about him.  As far as I’m concerned, this conversation is over.  

Man, this is disappointing. You asked for evidence so I gave you a ton and provided a source for further support. I can run you through statistics but middle linebackers don’t really lead through statistics. He’s had 115 tackles in each of his first three seasons and has been in the top 15/20 in that category every single season. Other stats are sparse for every middle linebacker. Forced fumbles? Most last year by a middle linebacker was three but most had zero or one. He had zero. Sacks? Middle linebackers typically aren’t pressuring QBs but he has had 2, 1.5 and 2 in his three full seasons. Give me more to go on. What numbers do you expect to see?

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 hours ago, Hoss said:

Man, this is disappointing. You asked for evidence so I gave you a ton and provided a source for further support. I can run you through statistics but middle linebackers don’t really lead through statistics. He’s had 115 tackles in each of his first three seasons and has been in the top 15/20 in that category every single season. Other stats are sparse for every middle linebacker. Forced fumbles? Most last year by a middle linebacker was three but most had zero or one. He had zero. Sacks? Middle linebackers typically aren’t pressuring QBs but he has had 2, 1.5 and 2 in his three full seasons. Give me more to go on. What numbers do you expect to see?

Edmunds is the defense QB of the best D in football.  What is left to argue about?

Edited October 12, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[calti]

22 hours ago, freester said:

He had a poor combine. 

just proves what combines are worth. remember that slow WR...uh what was his name...-oh yeah jerry rice

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Edmunds in the defense QB of the best D in football.  What is left to argue about?

That's the question! I love watching that kid play. I imagine an extension for him is coming this offseason to keep him on a similar timeline as Josh. Keep the leaders of both sides locked up.

The Chiefs defense is a PERFECT example of what happens when you think bringing guys in from other schemes to lead your defense won't work. Frank Clark was thought to be a guy who would put their defense over the top and he's been a complete bust for them.

[That Aud Smell]

8 hours ago, WildCard said:

The emails are out there for those curious. They're something alright.

I looked - did not find them. What search terms should I be using?

[Hoss]

31 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I looked - did not find them. What search terms should I be using?

Search "Jon Gruden emails."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/sports/football/what-did-jon-gruden-say.html

 

Also, some very strong points here on why the Gruden news likely came out when it did (open this tweet and read the ones Dan Lust added after):

 

[That Aud Smell]

thanks @Hoss

i’d been looking for reproduced copies of the emails themselves, rather than descriptions and quotes. I don’t think anyone has published the emails themselves in toto.

[Eleven]

10 hours ago, Taro T said:

It actually sounds like this might have been part of that investigation as IIHC some of the e-mails were to a former Washington executive apparently.

 

But interesting how this whole thing leaked in about 2 days & there's been pretty much crickets on the Snyder investigation.

Whatever Gruden said, it's not as bad as trafficking cheerleaders.  I think you're implying that the league is trying to distract from the Redskins* investigation, and I think you're right.

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

thanks @Hoss

i’d been looking for reproduced copies of the emails themselves, rather than descriptions and quotes. I don’t think anyone has published the emails themselves in toto.

I want to see them, too.

 

 

*Let's call it what it is.  It is an investigation of a team so callous as to continue to call itself the "Redskins" until there was a complete and total PR disaster brought on by the cheerleader situation and a few other things, at which point Snyder sacrificed the name to try to keep the team.  Adam Silver would have rid the league of Snyder long ago.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Eleven

[Wyldnwoody44]

The emails were from 10+ years ago, this is clearly about more than a possibly racist comment. I think we covered it here well...... Saving face and $$$$ are the real motivators here.

 

[That Aud Smell]

38 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Whatever Gruden said, it's not as bad as trafficking cheerleaders.  I think you're implying that the league is trying to distract from the Redskins* investigation, and I think you're right.

Did that investigation not conclude with the $10M fine this past June or July?

Edit: Okay. Reading the Dan Lust Tweets - I get it.

Edited October 12, 2021 by That Aud Smell

[WildCard]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

Search "Jon Gruden emails."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/sports/football/what-did-jon-gruden-say.html

 

Also, some very strong points here on why the Gruden news likely came out when it did (open this tweet and read the ones Dan Lust added after):

 

 

3 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

The emails were from 10+ years ago, this is clearly about more than a possibly racist comment. I think we covered it here well...... Saving face and $$$$ are the real motivators here.

 

That twitter thread does make a good point. Over 650k emails investigated in Washington, a notoriously shady organization, and the only thing that comes out of it is Gruden's head on a plate? There's just no way that:

A) If the owners wanted that covered they wouldn't have

and 

B) Gruden is the only one in there with some shady stuff.

[That Aud Smell]

One thing I will add, though, re the Dan Lust questions about "where are Snyder's emails": When you're at the tippy tippy top of the food chain, you don't need to use email. And you may well not use it. You'd certainly be well advised not to use it.

[Stoner]

42 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

One thing I will add, though, re the Dan Lust questions about "where are Snyder's emails": When you're at the tippy tippy top of the food chain, you don't need to use email. And you may well not use it. You'd certainly be well advised not to use it.

I said, what's Twitter? They said, you talk to people. I said, hoo boy!

[Doohicksie]

For all those moaning about CC's failure to give the Bills any respect... I can only guess that Chris Berman has some influence at ESPN for their power rankings:

Circle the wagons indeed.