Is There a Path Forward for Eichel and the Sabres?

[thewookie1]

47 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think you are right.  If the Sabres were winning we wouldn’t hear stuff like this.

I have listened to her podcast for years and I’ve never heard her discuss being a fan of an NHL team.  Everyone says working inside the NHL kills your fandom.

If she said it for clicks/subs it was pretty poor marketing.  A 30 second comment buried 42 mins into a 1 hr podcast without any mention of it in the title or description.

Did you listen to the segment?

My point in mentioning this was not to say that Eichel is a jerk, that any of the perceptions she mentioned are true, or that the Sabres should trade Eichel.

Im just sharing it because if there is that negative perception widely held within the league, it could affect trade value.  Even if it’s not really true, the fact that many think it’s kind of true is enough.

Personally, I do not agree that the Sabres must hold Eichel at all costs.  He is a very talented player, but he does not have the type of accomplishments that make him untouchable, or give me the emotional attachment to him that would devastate me if he were to be moved.  Nothing in my heart binds Eichel and the Sabres’ fortunes together.  His value to me is purely in his on ice skills.  Those are hard to replace, so it’s very hard to trade him, but not impossible.

 

Ok, now that I listened to it in full I can say that she isn't at fault but I am seriously curious where this slander is coming from.

Eichel means a ton to many Sabres fans because we literally tanked 2 seasons to assure at least getting the guy. Trading him is like being told the last 10 years worth of suffering were literally for nothing.

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

Ok, now that I listened to it in full I can say that she isn't at fault but I am seriously curious where this slander is coming from.

Eichel means a ton to many Sabres fans because we literally tanked 2 seasons to assure at least getting the guy. Trading him is like being told the last 10 years worth of suffering were literally for nothing.

Nope.  Not for me.  At one point I may have held some of this emotional investment in Eichel as the prize of the tank, but years of losing has freed me of any such attachment.  Do what’s best for the team.  I don’t care about Eichel.  This line of thought holds no appeal to me.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Curt

[Weave]

12 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

Ok, now that I listened to it in full I can say that she isn't at fault but I am seriously curious where this slander is coming from.

Eichel means a ton to many Sabres fans because we literally tanked 2 seasons to assure at least getting the guy. Trading him is like being told the last 10 years worth of suffering were literally for nothing.

It literally was for nothing.  All those tank years represent now is spent costs.

[thewookie1]

48 minutes ago, Weave said:

It literally was for nothing.  All those tank years represent now is spent costs.

You never liked the tank anyway so I don’t put quite the same amount of emotional weight on your opinion looking back on it. 

 

54 minutes ago, Curt said:

Nope.  Not for me.  At one point I may have held some of this emotional investment in Eichel as the prize of the tank, but years of losing has freed me of any such attachment.  Do what’s best for the team.  I don’t care about Eichel.  This line of thought holds no appeal to me.

I honestly don’t see a scenario where Buffalo ends up better without Eichel

[Curt]

26 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I honestly don’t see a scenario where Buffalo ends up better without Eichel

I don’t know, but I’m definitely not going to hold onto due to sentimental value, or some intangible reasons.

It has got to be purely an evaluation of hockey talent.

[MISabresFan]

19 hours ago, Curt said:

I don’t know, but I’m definitely not going to hold onto due to sentimental value, or some intangible reasons.

It has got to be purely an evaluation of hockey talent.

Yes, put the best players on the roster, play them and do not base it on contracts.  IMHO the Sabre's do not get any better until the heavy contracts get removed no matter who you trade for.

 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, MISabresFan said:

Yes, put the best players on the roster, play them and do not base it on contracts.  IMHO the Sabre's do not get any better until the heavy contracts get removed no matter who you trade for.

 

What I wrote really didn’t have anything to do with contracts, or even about playing the best players, so I have no idea where you are coming from.

I actually disagree with you.  I think Buffalo can get A LOT better with their bigger contracts still on the team.

[PerreaultForever]

One thing I was thinking though is assuming there is a good deal on the table, we might be better off to make it. If he doesn't play this year (or doesn't play much) and the team is improved as we see signs of and they go with Granato as coach and this is the course, the expectation is add Eichel back in and we will be so much better than this even. And if it is, fine, but if it's not. If the wheels start to fall off again we're right back where we were and we will get less for him as he demands out. Results will have to be immediate.

On the other hand if we trade him and build on what's on the ice now plus the new assets you might retain a greater sense of building hope. idk. Depends on the offer imo. 

 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

One thing I was thinking though is assuming there is a good deal on the table, we might be better off to make it. If he doesn't play this year (or doesn't play much) and the team is improved as we see signs of and they go with Granato as coach and this is the course, the expectation is add Eichel back in and we will be so much better than this even. And if it is, fine, but if it's not. If the wheels start to fall off again we're right back where we were and we will get less for him as he demands out. Results will have to be immediate.

On the other hand if we trade him and build on what's on the ice now plus the new assets you might retain a greater sense of building hope. idk. Depends on the offer imo. 

 

We have seen signs of the goaltending improving but the team overall is still bad. 

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

One thing I was thinking though is assuming there is a good deal on the table, we might be better off to make it. If he doesn't play this year (or doesn't play much) and the team is improved as we see signs of and they go with Granato as coach and this is the course, the expectation is add Eichel back in and we will be so much better than this even. And if it is, fine, but if it's not. If the wheels start to fall off again we're right back where we were and we will get less for him as he demands out. Results will have to be immediate.

On the other hand if we trade him and build on what's on the ice now plus the new assets you might retain a greater sense of building hope. idk. Depends on the offer imo. 

I think it was always the case that results will need to be immediate next season.  If they suck again I think the risk of demanded departure skyrockets.

And as always, it depends on the specifics of the trade.

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We have seen signs of the goaltending improving but the team overall is still bad. 

I think this is too soon.  Not enough information.

[PerreaultForever]

43 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We have seen signs of the goaltending improving but the team overall is still bad. 

Bad yes, in many ways, but some promising signs and trends. It doesn't matter what we think though it's the perception up top. If TP thinks it's improved we will be staying the course. 

[MISabresFan]

11 hours ago, Curt said:

What I wrote really didn’t have anything to do with contracts, or even about playing the best players, so I have no idea where you are coming from.

I actually disagree with you.  I think Buffalo can get A LOT better with their bigger contracts still on the team.

So you think keeping KO and Skinner then trading other players will make the team better?  Currently would KO (6 Mill cap hit) be in your top 12 forwards based on who is available in Rochester and Buffalo?  A GM with those two contracts is handcuffed.  You can move players add different ones but you still have those two.  More than likely who you add will have to play on a line with one of them.  Find a way to package one or both of them and clear cap and an opening on the roster for a better NHL players-even if it includes moving Jack.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, MISabresFan said:

RSo you think keeping KO and Skinner then trading other players will make the team better?  Currently would KO (6 Mill cap hit) be in your top 12 forwards based on who is available in Rochester and Buffalo?  A GM with those two contracts is handcuffed.  You can move players add different ones but you still have those two.  More than likely who you add will have to play on a line with one of them.  Find a way to package one or both of them and clear cap and an opening on the roster for a better NHL players-even if it includes moving Jack.

Maybe this will help ...

(Cupping hands around mouth like a megaphone)

 

Kyle Okposo has a M-NTC ... https://www.capfriendly.com/players/kyle-okposo

Between his bloated contract that no one will take on AND his NTC, AND his major injury history... he’s practically impossible to move. No, really... He is.

 

Jeff Skinner has a NMC ... https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jeff-skinner

Between his insane contract that no one will take on AND his NMC ... he’s impossible to move. Even if the Sabres retain 50%. He holds all the cards right now. 
 

Unless both players waive their Clauses, they are Sabres. The only semi silver cloud, is if the Sabres buy out KO after this season.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/kyle-okposo

Edited April 8, 2021 by Zamboni

[Curt]

1 hour ago, MISabresFan said:

So you think keeping KO and Skinner then trading other players will make the team better?  Currently would KO (6 Mill cap hit) be in your top 12 forwards based on who is available in Rochester and Buffalo?  A GM with those two contracts is handcuffed.  You can move players add different ones but you still have those two.  More than likely who you add will have to play on a line with one of them.  Find a way to package one or both of them and clear cap and an opening on the roster for a better NHL players-even if it includes moving Jack.

I think the Sabres could improve a lot and be a playoff team even with those two contracts, and the Eichel contract too.  However, you are certainly correct that it is a handcuff.

I actually think KO currently is one of the top 12 forwards.  Early in the season he was not playing like it, but he has rounded into form.  KO’s contract has just two years left now, so it is easier to deal with.  It could be traded or bought out somewhat reasonably.

Skinner’s contract is something that they are just going to need to work around for quite some time.  The buyout would be outrageous and it has a NMC so he is almost impossible to trade, completely impossible if he doesn’t want to go.  He isn’t going anywhere soon.

[Doohicksie]

On 4/6/2021 at 4:39 PM, Norcal said:

Keep Eichel and get him two wingers not currently on the team

Considering how the rest of the team is starting to gel in his absence, I kind of like the idea.  Alternately, go back to the 40 goal Skinner season and put him back on Jack's wing.

[Doohicksie]

49 minutes ago, Curt said:

I actually think KO currently is one of the top 12 forwards.  Early in the season he was not playing like it, but he has rounded into form.  KO’s contract has just two years left now, so it is easier to deal with.  It could be traded or bought out somewhat reasonably.

During this current standing points streak, Okposo is leading the team in assists and points.  Generally, once a player drops off they drop off and never get better again.  But after going through what KO has been through, he's been getting a little better each year.  He knows he's on a bloated contract; he's spoken about it on record.  He wants to do whatever he can to give the Sabres value, whether that means being a footsoldier on the fourth line or chipping in on a scoring line while better players are out.  He's no longer the most skilled guy our there but he does play a pretty savvy game and is a physical presence.  Yes he's overpriced but I just don't see a way out of his contract, so just use him as best we can.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I have been reading this thread for a few days..... My take. Jack does not want to be a loser and i believe he is dedicated to the Sabres. That being said, him seeing the changes that have occurred even after the coaching change is going to make him happy as he is going to be able to play his game and not have to worry about "The Process". Lets face it, the process was a offensive restrictive system that most of the free wheeling players were stifled under. Once this team has its talent back, AKA Jack, Cozens, and Lazar, I think we will see more even a more explosive offensive output. 

[Drag0nDan]

5 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Maybe this will help ...

(Cupping hands around mouth like a megaphone)

 

Kyle Okposo has a M-NTC ... https://www.capfriendly.com/players/kyle-okposo

Between his bloated contract that no one will take on AND his NTC, AND his major injury history... he’s practically impossible to move. No, really... He is.

 

Jeff Skinner has a NMC ... https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jeff-skinner

Between his insane contract that no one will take on AND his NMC ... he’s impossible to move. Even if the Sabres retain 50%. He holds all the cards right now. 
 

Unless both players waive their Clauses, they are Sabres. The only semi silver cloud, is if the Sabres buy out KO after this season.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/kyle-okposo

You actually save more cap space by buying out eakin.

[Norcal]

Eichel is trending on Twitter right now. It's hilarious how many people think Eichel is going to be traded today and the "deals" they would propose. 

[LabattBlue]

I think if anyone goes in the off-season, it's Reinhart and Risto.  Just can't believe they can go into another season with the same friggin' core.  I think Reinhart goes with a pick or prospect for established top 6 wing help.  Risto?  Who knows what his value is.

[Thorner]

44 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Eichel is trending on Twitter right now. It's hilarious how many people think Eichel is going to be traded today and the "deals" they would propose. 

It won't happen but can you imagine if a contending team managed to add him? They'd be the odds on favourite 

[Norcal]

55 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I think if anyone goes in the off-season, it's Reinhart and Risto.  Just can't believe they can go into another season with the same friggin' core.  I think Reinhart goes with a pick or prospect for established top 6 wing help.  Risto?  Who knows what his value is.

I've been behind those two their entire careers. I watched Sam get his first NHL point live in San Jose and I hate to say it but I agree with you. 

Sam has been good but IF they can get a young skilled winger to play and gel with Jack I think they will, and should consider it. 

Risto, love his effort and gritty play through the years but with the young D core coming up and all of them being better at moving the puck than him it could be time.

Unless he can bring value in the form of a high end prospect or established NHL  player,  they should probably keep him. 

Maybe they convince Seattle to take him? 

 

[Figster]

You go back Jack, do it again,

Wheels turning round and round...

[Marvin]

Something just hit me.

Suppose the team continues its improvement, plays consistently well, and wins a few games from the division leaders.  If you are Eichel, might that make you more interested in staying?  You no longer have to do everything, so you can just take care of your business knowing that the team will still have a chance even if you have an off day.  Might that, plus the hiring of a proven coach and some good AGMs, actually get you keyed up to play here?

[Weave]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:04 PM, thewookie1 said:

You never liked the tank anyway so I don’t put quite the same amount of emotional weight on your opinion looking back on it. 

 

Whether you liked the tank or not is immaterial.  The TankFruit represent sunk costs either way.  Making decisions based on what you went through to get them is always bad policy.  It's like turning down a 3rd rd pick for Montour because you gave up a first 2 seasons ago.  In Jack or Sam's case it would be poor decision making to not trade either one because you tanked for them.  You make the decision based on the return, not based on what you went through to get them.  The tank is a fully worthless contributor to the math.