Is There a Path Forward for Eichel and the Sabres?

[dudacek]

6 hours ago, Last Eichel Fan said:

You've ignored my statement - why move him before next season starts? I'm not sure you understand my position at all based on how much of my position is continually ignored.

• Because this team revolves around its captain and can't win if he is checked out
• Because the longer he stays, the more his attitude is a drag on the players around him
• Because the sooner he goes, the sooner other players can start filling the void on and off the ice
• Because the longer you hang on to him, the greater the chance his recent play changes GMs' perception of him from JACK EICHEL! to Jack Eichel?
• Because the sooner you start the talk about moving him, the more teams you can bait, and the greater the chances of a good return
• Because the more this situation festers, the greater the chances of it becoming a Rick Nash scenario where we get handcuffed on the return.
• Because playing him next season increases the likelihood that we will be watching a repeat of what we are watching now.

I think @curt and I have touched on all of these reasons in various posts and you haven't been ignored at all.

We just aren't finding common ground because my position is based on the premise that Jack has checked out, and a trade request is coming sooner or later. I'm pretty sure yours is that the relationship can still be saved. I hope you're right.

Edited March 3, 2021 by dudacek

[Weave]

I really hate that users can change their user name and I have no way of seeing whointhehell they used to be.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

• Because this team revolves around its captain and can't win if he is checked out
• Because the longer he stays, the more his attitude is a drag on the players around him
• Because the sooner he goes, the sooner other players can start filling the void on and off the ice
• Because the longer you hang on to him, the greater the chance his recent play changes GMs' perception of him from JACK EICHEL! to Jack Eichel?
• Because the sooner you start the talk about moving him, the more teams you can bait, and the greater the chances of a good return
• Because the more this situation festers, the greater the chances of it becoming a Rick Nash scenario where we get handcuffed on the return.
• Because playing him next season increases the likelihood that we will be watching a repeat of what we are watching now.

I think @curt and I have touched on all of these reasons in various posts and you haven't been ignored at all.

We just aren't finding common ground because my position is based on the premise that Jack has checked out, and a trade request is coming sooner or later. I'm pretty sure yours is that the relationship can still be saved. I hope you're right.

Most of these bullet points are making the same point - but I understand the point. He (hypothetically!) might be tough to be around right now (through 18 games), and you are confident enough in your 18 game psychological evaluation to think he’s beyond saving in Buffalo. 

And then judging the ability to hang onto him for one more year to be worth less than whatever hypothetical gains might be made in a deal sooner rather than later. 

The “we might be bad again!” argument doesn’t hold water for me here because you’ve already used the “it can’t get worse!” Argument for trading him. Can’t be both ways. “Keep him one more year to see! Can’t be worse”

You mentioned his production might go down - it could easily go up. What’s more likely to be an anomaly - last season or an 18 game sample size? That’s not an argument for either side. 

You mention playing him next season has a likelihood of us watching this again - a greater likelihood than a high degree of difficulty deal, by Pegula, backfiring? 

I’ve also made an argument for why the return would stay high next season - teams can’t afford to slow play when they will indeed run out of time. 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Last Eichel Fan

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I really hate that users can change their user name and I have no way of seeing whointhehell they used to be.

Yes you can, click the clock next to their name in their profile. 

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Yes you can, click the clock next to their name in their profile. 

Holy crap!

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I really hate that users can change their user name and I have no way of seeing whointhehell they used to be.

I usually just look at the photo anyways 

[Brawndo]

 

[Thorner]

^Good news if it can be trusted 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Last Eichel Fan

[Norcal]

33 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

I said the other day the train was picking up speed.

The train being the media and fans who continue to speculate and write about Jack Eichel and the Sabres.

Will they, won't they? Does he or doesn't he? Whatever  happens you can guarantee the media will be pushing the narrative. 

[Scottysabres]

13 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I said the other day the train was picking up speed.

The train being the media and fans who continue to speculate and write about Jack Eichel and the Sabres.

Will they, won't they? Does he or doesn't he? Whatever  happens you can guarantee the media will be pushing the narrative. 

One person, one voice, has the answer to all our Jack Eichel questions.

 

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I said the other day the train was picking up speed.

The train being the media and fans who continue to speculate and write about Jack Eichel and the Sabres.

Will they, won't they? Does he or doesn't he? Whatever  happens you can guarantee the media will be pushing the narrative. 

“Pushing”, “Inventing”....whichever 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Last Eichel Fan said:

I usually just look at the photo anyways 

Apparently my boomerish 70’s WNY mind doesn’t match icons and old usernames.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

Apparently my boomerish 70’s WNY mind doesn’t match icons and old usernames.

I feel like I could identify most posters purely by the photo 

[dudacek]

On 3/3/2021 at 10:52 AM, Last Eichel Fan said:

Most of these bullet points are making the same point - but I understand the point. He (hypothetically!) might be tough to be around right now (through 18 games), and you are confident enough in your 18 game psychological evaluation to think he’s beyond saving in Buffalo. 

And then judging the ability to hang onto him for one more year to be worth less than whatever hypothetical gains might be made in a deal sooner rather than later. 

The “we might be bad again!” argument doesn’t hold water for me here because you’ve already used the “it can’t get worse!” Argument for trading him. Can’t be both ways. “Keep him one more year to see! Can’t be worse”

You mentioned his production might go down - it could easily go up. What’s more likely to be an anomaly - last season or an 18 game sample size? That’s not an argument for either side. 

You mention playing him next season has a likelihood of us watching this again - a greater likelihood than a high degree of difficulty deal, by Pegula, backfiring? 

I’ve also made an argument for why the return would stay high next season - teams can’t afford to slow play when they will indeed run out of time. 

 

To the bolded, I am not at all confident.

I am not around Jack or the team, I have no idea if he is actually checked out, or if he is playing through pain that would have sent Bobby Baun to intensive care while tending to his dying mother. Kevyn Adams, different story.

Sometimes we get into discussions that get so deep into the "what-abouts" and the "what-ifs" we forget the starting point.

My starting point was this: IF Jack Eichel is truly done with the Sabres, then I think the Sabres should start testing the market now, and if the market is good, they should make a move sooner rather than later. When an issue that needs to be addressed, you don't let it fester: Casey Mittelstadt, 2C, RHD and 2G have taught us that too well.

As long as Jack is committed to his teammates and to making it work here, ***** that noise.

Edited March 4, 2021 by dudacek

[DeleteThisAccount]

On 3/2/2021 at 4:34 PM, nfreeman said:

@john wawrow -- I hope you've been keeping well.  We'd sure appreciate your thoughts on whether RK is going to get canned and whether Eichel will be traded!

 

I've been saying for months, it's not out of the realm of possibility on Eichel.

More difficult to tell about RK, as it depends on his level of power within the operation, which could lessen if things keep going this way.

 

jw

[DeleteThisAccount]

2 hours ago, john wawrow said:

I've been saying for months, it's not out of the realm of possibility on Eichel.

More difficult to tell about RK, as it depends on his level of power within the operation, which could lessen if things keep going this way.

 

jw

to follow things up, understand Ralph's messaging last week left a lot to be desired within the organization, if that is any indication on where he stands.

[nfreeman]

12 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

to follow things up, understand Ralph's messaging last week left a lot to be desired within the organization, if that is any indication on where he stands.

Interesting. Thanks. 

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, john wawrow said:

to follow things up, understand Ralph's messaging last week left a lot to be desired within the organization, if that is any indication on where he stands.

Any wiggle room on the notion he's in his 60s and is probably still recovering from Covid? The word salad about Eichel's injury is a dramatic outlier for this gifted communicator.

[Thorner]

13 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Any wiggle room on the notion he's in his 60s and is probably still recovering from Covid? The word salad about Eichel's injury is a dramatic outlier for this gifted communicator.

"Eichel wasn't injured"

"I expected a dip here" 

"Leave the coaching for next game"

"No doubts at all about the system. It can only be the execution"

"Attack of the Clones is the best Star Wars movie".

 

He said all of those but 1

[Sabre fan]

I guess my biggest question would be do we really think we'll get anything back if we trade jack that will actually make the team better? We are having a hell of a time finding a 2nd center after giving away ROR and if we trade jack then we have no top centers at all. That in itself should tell them not to trade Jack but rather to show RK the door sooner the better. Who knows maybe we can get back into the playoff race if they do somethig soon. Otherwise it's "wait until next year"  which is seem sis our motto every year.

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Sabre fan said:

I guess my biggest question would be do we really think we'll get anything back if we trade jack that will actually make the team better? We are having a hell of a time finding a 2nd center after giving away ROR and if we trade jack then we have no top centers at all. That in itself should tell them not to trade Jack but rather to show RK the door sooner the better. Who knows maybe we can get back into the playoff race if they do somethig soon. Otherwise it's "wait until next year"  which is seem sis our motto every year.

They are not getting back in the playoff race, no way.  Right now Philly and boston are tied for the last spot... 4th place in the division, on a 75-76 point pace.  If the Sabres got hot and took away points from those teams...and managed to get into the playoffs with 70 points (once again, not likely in this division, but for the sake of argument), that means the Sabres would need 55 points in 35 games...or 78.6% of available points the rest of the year. 

How hard is that?  That is better than the best teams in the league are doing so far this year.  They basically have to become the best team in the league for the rest of the year for a chance at the last playoff spot in this division.

[Radar]

2 hours ago, Sabre fan said:

I guess my biggest question would be do we really think we'll get anything back if we trade jack that will actually make the team better? We are having a hell of a time finding a 2nd center after giving away ROR and if we trade jack then we have no top centers at all. That in itself should tell them not to trade Jack but rather to show RK the door sooner the better. Who knows maybe we can get back into the playoff race if they do somethig soon. Otherwise it's "wait until next year"  which is seem sis our motto every year.

We're out of the playoffs. It's fantasy to think otherwise.

[Crusader1969]

I was and am firmly against trading Eichel but there is one scenario that could change my mind.    The Sabres winning the draft lottery and selected another Dman 

you could then Trade Eichel for another (younger) elite talent; plus plus prospects and draft picks. Then you would have Dahlin, Cozens, UPL, Mitts (?) , Kakko (as an example), Quinn, plus Power #1 this year all basically go into prime at same time 

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I was and am firmly against trading Eichel but there is one scenario that could change my mind.    The Sabres winning the draft lottery and selected another Dman 

you could then Trade Eichel for another (younger) elite talent; plus plus prospects and draft picks. Then you would have Dahlin, Cozens, UPL, Mitts (?) , Kakko (as an example), Quinn, plus Power #1 this year all basically go into prime at same time 

You trade for Kakko, who plays center?

[Second Line Center]

7 even strength points in 19 games.  

 

Someone better come out with an X-ray showing us he's playing with 3 broken ribs.  

I'm not feeling elite lately let alone generational.  

Something is wrong and it's not just the coach him and Hall supposedly love.