Should Pro Sports "Jump the Line" for a Vaccine?

[Eleven]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever used on this board. 

I don't know about that.  There were people who insisted the team would get better without Ruff.

[Shootica]

I'm not that knowledge about vaccine distribution, but I've got to imagine that giving spare doses to any specific group is easier said than done.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure these things only become at risk of being wasted if they're taken out of the deep freezer for use and then not used within a number of days.  Most likely situation would probably be the patient cancelling their vaccination appointment.  And I'd imagine that hospitals/pharmacies would be going FIFO with these things, and only taking as much as they need out of the deep freezers.

If that's the case, the spare doses would only be onesies twosies, not whole lots, and would be very time sensitive.  It would be tough to get those does to any specific sports team, school, etc. before the dose expires, and if you had time to do that you probably have time to get it to another at risk person.

[LTS]

Let me try and provide an alternate way to look at this.

Assume you need to build a new city from scratch (county, state, country).  

At what point in the development process do you build an arena for a professional sports franchise?

When do you build the movie theater?

That's where they belong in the priority list.  They are superfluous occupations that provide additive value but are meaningless if you don't have a television, a house, a job. In short, they are nice to haves, like a chocolate after dinner.

it doesn't matter what it means to you, individually, it matters what it means to society as a whole. 

[miles]

59 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever used on this board. 

I have seen some dumb arguments on this board, this can't possibly be the dumbest. In fact arguing the sabres should jump the line for any reason is way dumber. Maybe im wrong, but im sure there are some that would agree

Good thing everyone is allowed an opinion 

Edited February 4, 2021 by miles

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Third, why should a hockey team get them even if there are extras? Why shouldn't they go to schools. Why shouldn't they go to grocery store employees. 

Tossing out vaccine is stupid and it has happened and Cuomo who I dislike immensely was responsible for this in early January. Now they have started changing rules and loosening guidelines. If the Sabres want to go to a vaccination site each day and wait outside to see if there are unused doses, go for it. But if they are able to call and get those doses delivered WHY THE ***** can't we do that for something that actually matters like teachers?

The difference is the Sabres are a cohesive unit.  One call and 50 people get vaccinated.  Contacting 50 people on a waiting list who may or may not show up is significantly more difficult.  I'm not saying that shouldn't be done.  It should.  However, I don't want any wasted and if I can get 50 people vaccinated with one call to prevent waste, I'm all for it.  

45 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Look, we aren't arguing that they should throw away vaccine as opposed to giving it to John Q Public who happens to be standing there. We are arguing for a system that if they have extra it should go to something that actually matters, teachers, service industry folks, etc... as opposed to a hockey team that doesn't provide a vital service of any kind. 

Not that wasn't what people were arguing. They were arguing that hockey players shouldn't get vaccine over anyone else.  It was a blanket no, even though I pointed out the waste in the system and the miniscule amount needed to protect an entire industry.  They said they shouldn't "jump the line" regardless.  While you might think sports isn't vital to our country, there is tons of economic and social research that says otherwise.  

Your whole argument about "extras" doesn't work like that.  School system and the teachers unions will be in charge of getting them vaccinated.  Teams are or will be going to the schools to get it done.  Teachers, especially older teachers and ones with issues, can also signup on their own.  However, on 2:30 on a Friday a Williamsville CVS isn't calling the Williamsville North High School and saying come on down and get your vaccine.  The government also isn't sending staff to each pharmacy each day to collect and redistribute expiring vaccine.  This is a perishable item and needs to be used.  I'd love if there were systems in place where extras would easily be given to those on a wait list and maybe we'll get there, but that isn't what's happening.  

 

[SwampD]

16 minutes ago, LTS said:

Let me try and provide an alternate way to look at this.

Assume you need to build a new city from scratch (county, state, country).  

At what point in the development process do you build an arena for a professional sports franchise?

When do you build the movie theater?

That's where they belong in the priority list.  They are superfluous occupations that provide additive value but are meaningless if you don't have a television, a house, a job. In short, they are nice to haves, like a chocolate after dinner.

it doesn't matter what it means to you, individually, it matters what it means to society as a whole. 

What about bars and restaurants? You don’t actually need those. You don’t actually need a television, either.

I made a point earlier, but it seems to have gotten lost in all the moral authority outrage. The vaccine is not the only way to protect ourselves from the virus. We have been protecting ourselves the whole time. The vaccine is how we get back to normal.

I’m just curious where the sales guy, who moved his family to the mountains so they could go to school and ski afterwards, but is still making all his calls and is doing fine, falls on the priority list. Should he be given the vaccine before the athlete? He doesn’t need it to stay safe or to work.

I’m confident, though, that no matter who makes the list, LGR will be there to tell them it is wrong.

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, miles said:

My sister in law was suspiciously able to get it for her and her husband. she said she used the obesity clause, which is nonsence because they are both average build. I say its suspicious because she works for pfizer. If she said i work for Pfizer so i was able to get it, i would not question it. However her being able to not only get an appointment for herself and her husband the same day it was available seemed too suspicious to me

Obese people are able to skip the line? That’s...something. 

[Eleven]

36 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I’m just curious where the sales guy, who moved his family to the mountains so they could go to school and ski afterwards, but is still making all his calls and is doing fine, falls on the priority list. Should he be given the vaccine before the athlete? He doesn’t need it to stay safe or to work.

Absent some special circumstance, no.  That person probably should be vaccinated in late spring or early summer.  But that doesn't mean that athletes should be "jumping the line" and getting the vaccine now.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Eleven

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Absent some special circumstance, no.  That person probably should be vaccinated in late spring or early summer.  But that doesn't mean that athletes should be "jumping the line" and getting the vaccine now.

Correct. Good thing I never said that.

I really didn’t think “at risk people first. Period” was that difficult to understand. I guess it’s easier to just be angry.

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Let me explain this. Let us say UB has an extra 50 doses. If they coordinated with the Buffalo school system, they could have a list of teachers willing to get vaccinated and they could rotate sites each day. Okay, today we are at city honors, if we have extra we will be at city honors at 3pm and give out as many extra's as we have. 

It is that simple. I am sorry but Hockey could be completely canceled right now and it would have 0 impact on anything. Versus if we fully vaccinate teachers and kids can get back fully into classrooms. 

It is simple. I have to pay homage to SwampD. I don't know how many times we did the post on/post off drill. He finally became a master baiter extraordinaire. My boy!

But, yeah, this thread is an affront to humanity.

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Correct. Good thing I never said that.

I really didn’t think “at risk people first. Period” was that difficult to understand. I guess it’s easier to just be angry.

I'm neither angry nor suggesting that you said that.  Just clarifying.

[miles]

2 hours ago, #freejame said:

Obese people are able to skip the line? That’s...something. 

In nj, obese people are considered high risk, so they are priority 1b

[LTS]

5 hours ago, SwampD said:

What about bars and restaurants? You don’t actually need those. You don’t actually need a television, either.

I made a point earlier, but it seems to have gotten lost in all the moral authority outrage. The vaccine is not the only way to protect ourselves from the virus. We have been protecting ourselves the whole time. The vaccine is how we get back to normal.

I’m just curious where the sales guy, who moved his family to the mountains so they could go to school and ski afterwards, but is still making all his calls and is doing fine, falls on the priority list. Should he be given the vaccine before the athlete? He doesn’t need it to stay safe or to work.

I’m confident, though, that no matter who makes the list, LGR will be there to tell them it is wrong.

That's true.  You do not need bars, restaurants, or televisions.  if the guy in the mountains doesn't need the vaccine before someone else because of a medical risk factor then the guy in the mountains should do the moral thing and not be in a rush to get the vaccine.  As you progress down the list the size of the groups that qualify for the next criteria level will grow.  Within that group there will be striations that people can point to and say "what about this or that, or me, or him, or her?"  That's the luxury of playing armchair decision maker.  

I could very well be the guy in the woods.  Although I'm not in the woods.  I work from home every day.  Do I need the vaccine right now? Nope.  But I suppose if I want to travel around others and not wear a mask, etc. (when/if it gets to that) then I will have to have it.  If I want to meet my parents (who will get the vaccine long before me) then what?  They could still carry the virus and I could get infected.  Again, what precautions need to be taken?

All of those nuances are what make this whole situation a mess. There are going to be inefficiencies in how things are distributed. I'd like to find someone in this forum that works at a company where mistakes are never made, especially when things are rushed.  Yet, people are in here blasting the government for their inefficiency. Which is kind of laughable given that governments have historically been some of the most inefficient entities to exist.

Bottom line though... just because people like sports does not mean an athlete should get vaccinated.  Now, those athletes that have compromised immune systems or other health factors should qualify. 

I find no harm in the question being asked.  I think the conversation we have should move us towards an answer that brings our viewpoints together.  Make a case for the guy on the mountain, or the teacher, or the athlete.  If your case consists of, "I like to watch hockey." then I'm not sure how far it will go as there are plenty of people who don't like it.

 

[Brawndo]

Larry Brooks reported this AM that a NHL Source mentioned that the Covid Vaccine will be available for players in 4-6 weeks. 
 

 

[Radar]

NO!!!!!! Why should players lives be more important. Economy?? If they can't get through this how about the corner deli or the guy laid off down the street who's on food stamps.

[Stoner]

48 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Larry Brooks reported this AM that a NHL Source mentioned that the Covid Vaccine will be available for players in 4-6 weeks. 
 

Won't it come down to each state's guidelines?

[Weave]

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Won't it come down to each state's guidelines?

Unless the NHL obtains its stash from the first source will give/sell enough for every team....

[pi2000]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:45 AM, Brawndo said:

Larry Brooks reported this AM that a NHL Source mentioned that the Covid Vaccine will be available for players in 4-6 weeks. 
 

 

I would probably boycott everything NHL if that happened.

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Can't wait for this to happen. Teachers should be forced back into schools to be underpaid and die but rich NHL players gotta get their vaccines first!!!!!!!! WOOOOOO

You’re like the drunk guy at the end of the bar this morning. You should take a nice walk outside.

[SwampD]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Actually I am just fine. I think the Sabres are trash and I think the vaccine rollout in the US can best be described as utter *****. 

Hard to argue with that.

[freester]

38 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Actually I am just fine. I think the Sabres are trash and I think the vaccine rollout in the US can best be described as utter *****. 

The vaccine roll out in the US is much better than in Canada.  None of my numerous relatives over the age of 65 have been vaccinated in Canada.  In addition most elective surgery is postponed with waits approaching 10-12 months.  Many health care workers have been unable to obtain the vaccine in Canada.

[dudacek]

US is vaccinating 1 million people a day, Canada less than 20,000.

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

US is vaccinating 1 million people a day, Canada less than 20,000.

Ouch.  What's going on up there?  Should be about 120,000 pro rata.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Ouch.  What's going on up there?  Should be about 120,000 pro rata.

No domestic supply. Our main international supplier (Pfizer) has had its supply chain disrupted by a production upgrade and our secondary supplier (Moderna) has not been delivering the amounts promised. Trudeau calling it a blip and promising we are still on track for 3 million vaccinations by March and the entire population by the end of September. We'll see. Astra Zeneca likely to get approval this week and Johnson and Johnson in a month or so, so that will help.

[Taro T]

41 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I honestly don't care what Canada is doing. That doesn't make what the US is doing any different. The fact is we should be vaccinating more than 1million ppl per day. At that rate it will take 2 years to get everyone both doses of the vaccine. That simply isn't good enough, which was my original point. 

Actually my original point was that I find it hilarious parts of this forum argued we should give vaccines to the puck jockeys before others (teachers in my example) because it would be easier and would only be several hundred doses. This is the United ***** States, we don't do things because they are easy, we do them because they are hard. 

Things such as developing the 1st ever corona virus vaccine for humans in a mere 9 months and ramping up inoculations to a rate of 1MM / day within 3 months?

Those both were truly herculean accomplishments.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Taro T