Fixing the Sabres Long-Term - Can it be done?

[Weave]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Why are you so intent on dynamiting the roster so early in the season? Although the accumulated points is somewhat disappointing the overall quality of play has been good. I'm aware that this is a shortened season with a compressed schedule and we are playing in a tough conference. So there needs to be more urgency in this odd season than a standard season. But we have just come off a four game road trip against two good teams. We earned  5 pts out of 8. That isn't exceptional but it is a solid return from a road trip. Why not wait another 6 to 10 games before solidifying your assessment of this team and the direction it is heading? Why not wait to see how this home stand turns out? 

I am not as invested in the analytics as some of the more astute hockey observers are in this site. However, in general they are good. What is more important to me is the eye test that indicates we are not overmatched against the quality teams we have played. I'm not saying we are better but I'm also not saying at least as exhibited by our play we are worse.

My recommendation to you is to be a little more patient and wait to see how things play out. You may turn out to be more right in your pessimistic view than my guarded optimistic view. Just stay away from the dynamite because when you blow up the village it is more difficult to rebuild especially when the inhabitants have been obliterated. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dynatice+explosion&view=detail&mid=73A629FEA941B075D44473A629FEA941B075D444&FORM=VIRE

Why do you think I am intent on dynamiting the team?  All I said was, show me the return for Jack and I’ll decide whether or not I think it is worth trading him.  

And my recommendation to you is to stop recommending how other people perceive the team and their fandom.  It’s obnoxious.

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, Weave said:

Why do you think I am intent on dynamiting the team?  All I said was, show me the return for Jack and I’ll decide whether or not I think it is worth trading him.  

And my recommendation to you is to stop recommending how other people perceive the team and their fandom.  It’s obnoxious.

All I am saying with my responses toward you is that I don't understand why your perception of this year's team is so negative at this point. If the team was playing as they did in the first game I would understand such negativity. But in general their play since the inaugural game has been solid against good teams. You can have whatever view you want. We all have our views and interpretation of how this team is playing. 

 

[spndnchz]

15 hours ago, nfreeman said:

McKee was one of my all-time favorite Sabres.

One of them for me too. 

Myself and a friend were at the coffee shop when Jay walked in, ordered his caffeine, and was waiting for it. No one said anything. 
 

As he waited just 3 feet away from us I said (not yelling) “hey Jay!” He turned around and we chatted for over 5 minutes. About his new Hummer that could fit all his gear, etc. He had to get to practice that morning so he had to go. He was a great guy. 

[Weave]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

All I am saying with my responses toward you is that I don't understand why your perception of this year's team is so negative at this point. If the team was playing as they did in the first game I would understand such negativity. But in general their play since the inaugural game has been solid against good teams. You can have whatever view you want. We all have our views and interpretation of how this team is playing. 

 

LOL it's not that negative really.  Indifferent is a better word.  I've commented a handful of times that Jack isn't being the dynamic player he needs to be.  And Dahlin has looked dreadful in the D zone so far.  Beyond that.... you may be thinking of someone else.

[Figster]

On 1/26/2021 at 12:21 PM, JohnC said:

All I am saying with my responses toward you is that I don't understand why your perception of this year's team is so negative at this point. If the team was playing as they did in the first game I would understand such negativity. But in general their play since the inaugural game has been solid against good teams. You can have whatever view you want. We all have our views and interpretation of how this team is playing. 

 

Sabres have gotten off to some decent starts in recent years just to peter out half, 3 quarters of the way through the season. Perhaps a gradual build up from start to finish could be just what the doctor ordered.

 

Say doctor, Is there something I can take!

Say doctor, to make the Sabres great!

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, Figster said:

Sabres have gotten off to some decent starts in recent years just to peter out half, 3 quarters of the way through the season. Perhaps a gradual build up from start to finish could be just what the doctor ordered.

 

Say doctor, Is there something I can take!

Say doctor, to make the Sabres great!

I'm a minimalist with a less than delusionary expectation to be great. What I'm looking for is to steadily get better and move up the ranks. 

My theory why the Sabres for the past recent years have started off like of ball of fire and then predictably flamed out is that the roster was thin to begin with not having much margin of error to work with. As the season would advance and the rigors of it took its toll from injuries and players not playing to expectation there wasn't a reservoir of talent to draw from. Hopefully, the difference this season is that the talent base has increased and credible replacements are more available. 

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm a minimalist with a less than delusionary expectation to be great. What I'm looking for is to steadily get better and move up the ranks. 

My theory why the Sabres for the past recent years have started off like of ball of fire and then predictably flamed out is that the roster was thin to begin with not having much margin of error to work with. As the season would advance and the rigors of it took its toll from injuries and players not playing to expectation there wasn't a reservoir of talent to draw from. Hopefully, the difference this season is that the talent base has increased and credible replacements are more available. 

I like how you think JohnC

[GASabresIUFAN]

35 minutes ago, Figster said:

I like how you think JohnC

That’s scary 😁

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s scary 😁

If your psychologist daughter says to you: "daddy you are acting crazy" ----do you consider it a typical daughter comment or a professional judgment? 😛

Edited January 28, 2021 by JohnC

[GASabresIUFAN]

She started saying that when she was 10.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

She started saying that when she was 10.

Doogina Howser, PhD?  😉

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Taro T said:

Doogina Howser, PhD?  😉

She is an amazing person.  An ADHD dyslexic who graduated UGA with a 3.9 and all she wants to do is find kids like herself and help them.  She is also an avid Bills and Sabres fan.  

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

She started saying that when she was 10.

She is astute and perspicacious. 🤡

[GASabresIUFAN]

Back to topic.

Immediate changes that could help this team.

1) - Putting Risto in front on the PP. - I’ve advocated for this for years and I’m glad they re finally doing it.  However we need to learn from Lindy’s team effort and Risto and gets guys to the net.  That leads to idea no. 2

2) Put an effort guy on all lines.  Lindy typically put a checker, playmaker and goal scorer on each line.  @dudacek, myself and others have advocated for this and if we have learned anything from the Devils games, we need to go to the net consistently.  We don’t now.  To much finesse.

The lines may look weird at first, but if we get results we need to stick with it.

Skinner Eichel Sheahan Rieder (moved Rieder here for his speed)

Hall Staal Cozens

Olofsson Lazar Reinhart

Rieder Sheahan Eakin Okposo (moved Sheahan here to forecheck like crazy).

3) replace Hutton 

Edited January 31, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[pi2000]

I've come to the realization that it's simply lack of talent on this team.

I know it's sour grapes, but it's terribly frustrating thinking about what could have been, we end up with...

Reinhart instead of Draisaitl 

Eichel instead of McDavid 

Nylander instead of Sergachev 

Dahlin instead of Svechnikov or Q. Hughes 

...and with $15m/yr going to Skinner + Okposo there's simply no way to recover. 

 They keep trying different coaches but it's like we keep watching the same game over and over for the past 10 years.

I'm not advocating for a complete rebuild, but their only way out of this is to get some kind of steady production from Skinner and find a way to unload Okposo maybe in expansion, but they're going to have to get creative.   

This season is already a wash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:39 AM, JohnC said:

I'm a minimalist with a less than delusionary expectation to be great. What I'm looking for is to steadily get better and move up the ranks. 

My theory why the Sabres for the past recent years have started off like of ball of fire and then predictably flamed out is that the roster was thin to begin with not having much margin of error to work with. As the season would advance and the rigors of it took its toll from injuries and players not playing to expectation there wasn't a reservoir of talent to draw from. Hopefully, the difference this season is that the talent base has increased and credible replacements are more available. 

It's not that. We've had healthier rosters than many teams many years. It's just that hockey gets tougher, more physical, teams bear down and it's simply harder in the second half (roughly) of a season and we don't elevate our game to match that. We have been soft and have lacked team effort for a long long time. 

3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I've come to the realization that it's simply lack of talent on this team.

I know it's sour grapes, but it's terribly frustrating thinking about what could have been, we end up with...

Reinhart instead of Draisaitl 

Eichel instead of McDavid 

Nylander instead of Sergachev 

Dahlin instead of Svechnikov or Q. Hughes 

...and with $15m/yr going to Skinner + Okposo there's simply no way to recover. 

 They keep trying different coaches but it's like we keep watching the same game over and over for the past 10 years.

I'm not advocating for a complete rebuild, but their only way out of this is to get some kind of steady production from Skinner and find a way to unload Okposo maybe in expansion, but they're going to have to get creative.   

This season is already a wash.

All those mistakes are valid, so poor drafting is a reason for sure, but there is still a lot of talent on this team. We have way more talent for example than New Jersey but they still beat us. We lack a work ethic, team spirit and a winning culture.

[tom webster]

It’s hysterical to me that everyone equates effort and work ethic with Lindy Ruff. When he first took over people were up in arms because his team played so much more passive them Ted Nolan. It took three quarters of a season for people to understand that developing a true system actually took time and guys that looked like they were not trying were actually playing more responsible.

Krueger has been implementing a more rigid defensive posture and people hate it. Just wait till the next two games, Trotz versus Krueger, it might be like watching paint dry.

I hope everyone got to read one of the many articles written about the first ten games from an analytical view. This team isn’t great but it is a playoff team once Eichel, Hall and Skinner start shooting their average and they get the goaltending.

They are making progress, the Eakin line will be a problem this year but that is next offseason’s fix.

[GASabresIUFAN]

28 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It’s hysterical to me that everyone equates effort and work ethic with Lindy Ruff. When he first took over people were up in arms because his team played so much more passive them Ted Nolan. It took three quarters of a season for people to understand that developing a true system actually took time and guys that looked like they were not trying were actually playing more responsible.

Krueger has been implementing a more rigid defensive posture and people hate it. Just wait till the next two games, Trotz versus Krueger, it might be like watching paint dry.

I hope everyone got to read one of the many articles written about the first ten games from an analytical view. This team isn’t great but it is a playoff team once Eichel, Hall and Skinner start shooting their average and they get the goaltending.

They are making progress, the Eakin line will be a problem this year but that is next offseason’s fix.

Nice thought, but if bad goaltending goes any shot at the playoffs.  Ullmark plays his heart out but is a mid tier goalie at best.  Even he let in 2 bad goals his last start and Hutton is a disaster.

Also the Eakin line is a black hole.  A disaster and the stats confirm it.  KO's return has hurt instead of helped and he needs to be sent to the taxi squad.

I understand RK's defensive vision and have praised our improve D structure, but it's killing the offense.  Against the Devils, they managed to integrate Lindy's system pretty quickly and the forechecked us into the ground.  There is no excuse for us not to be able to do the same even while being better in our end.  Remember this is year 2 for most of these players in this system. 

Fixing things need to be done asap not next season.  If we are going to waste this year, play the kids.

Edited February 1, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It’s hysterical to me that everyone equates effort and work ethic with Lindy Ruff. When he first took over people were up in arms because his team played so much more passive them Ted Nolan. It took three quarters of a season for people to understand that developing a true system actually took time and guys that looked like they were not trying were actually playing more responsible.

Krueger has been implementing a more rigid defensive posture and people hate it. Just wait till the next two games, Trotz versus Krueger, it might be like watching paint dry.

I hope everyone got to read one of the many articles written about the first ten games from an analytical view. This team isn’t great but it is a playoff team once Eichel, Hall and Skinner start shooting their average and they get the goaltending.

They are making progress, the Eakin line will be a problem this year but that is next offseason’s fix.

The big fear that looms over this fanbase is that the history of this franchise is that it doesn't rise as the season advances, it falters and fizzles out. You can have excellent analytics/stats but the numbers can be rendered meaningless when the level of goaltending undercuts the numbers. In a compressed schedule you need to have above average goaltenders to contend. I'm satisfied with Ullmark as our #1 goalie but have become even more worried about Hutton as our #2. And it should be noted that I am one of the lesser of critics of him. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I've come to the realization that it's simply lack of talent on this team.

...and with $15m/yr going to Skinner + Okposo there's simply no way to recover. 

 They keep trying different coaches but it's like we keep watching the same game over and over for the past 10 years.

I'm not advocating for a complete rebuild, but their only way out of this is to get some kind of steady production from Skinner and find a way to unload Okposo maybe in expansion, but they're going to have to get creative.   

 

The drafting has been an issue since nearly the beginning.  Rick Seiling over Mike Bossy for example.

The only way to handle KO after this season is to send him down savings 1.1 next season and then buy him out.  It's possible that a compliance Covid related buyout might come if the cap falls but don't count on it.

The Skinner problem is a huge problem.  He is going to have to find his touch again.  If that means playing with Jack so be it.  It might also mean getting him to somehow play more like Miles Wood.  Not likely, but players have morphed their games before to remain effective NHLers. 

[WildCard]

I get the topic and appreciate it and all but really your only answer here is firing Adams and Kruger. We aren't going anywhere with that muppet show steering the ship

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The drafting has been an issue since nearly the beginning.  Rick Seiling over Mike Bossy for example.

The only way to handle KO after this season is to send him down savings 1.1 next season and then buy him out.  It's possible that a compliance Covid related buyout might come if the cap falls but don't count on it.

The Skinner problem is a huge problem.  He is going to have to find his touch again.  If that means playing with Jack so be it.  It might also mean getting him to somehow play more like Miles Wood.  Not likely, but players have morphed their games before to remain effective NHLers. 

If there is a compliance buyout this off-season, they shouldn’t have to take more than 5 seconds to decide that Skinner is the player to buy-out.  
 

Then turn around and bury Okposo in Rochester and hope that he retires. 

[LTS]

4 hours ago, tom webster said:

It’s hysterical to me that everyone equates effort and work ethic with Lindy Ruff. When he first took over people were up in arms because his team played so much more passive them Ted Nolan. It took three quarters of a season for people to understand that developing a true system actually took time and guys that looked like they were not trying were actually playing more responsible.

Krueger has been implementing a more rigid defensive posture and people hate it. Just wait till the next two games, Trotz versus Krueger, it might be like watching paint dry.

I hope everyone got to read one of the many articles written about the first ten games from an analytical view. This team isn’t great but it is a playoff team once Eichel, Hall and Skinner start shooting their average and they get the goaltending.

They are making progress, the Eakin line will be a problem this year but that is next offseason’s fix.

The assumption here is that the system allows these players to reach their shooting average.  Skinner by virtue of his usage will get less shots per game. The goaltending might not improve because the system changes how they play.

I like your optimism but the little things I see are indications that the coach isn't exerting enough attention to detail on these players.  They might be saying the right things but they are not doing the right things.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

I get the topic and appreciate it and all but really your only answer here is firing Adams and Kruger. We aren't going anywhere with that muppet show steering the ship

I figured we were the muppet show.  Lots of competition for Waldorf and Statler.  Inkman as Animal.  Occassional high profile guest appearances.  Jsb doing game day Kermit duty.  

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Weave said:

I figured we were the muppet show.  Lots of competition for Waldorf and Statler.  Inkman as Animal.  Occassional high profile guest appearances.  Jsb doing game day Kermit duty.