GDT: 1/15/21 7pm ET Washington @ Buffalo - FREE GAME ON NHL.com

[LGR4GM]

Love watching Krueger post games... so... enlightening. 

[Thorner]

Maybe we are better on the road 

[klos1963]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

People should remember that Dahlin is ridiculously young. He's 20. For a D man on what's been a bad team, with new systems every year, while you are trying to adjust to living in a new country..what he did at 18 was frankly ridiculous, worthy of a generational d-man label, at that age. Since then, it's not been that way. 

I don't want to point out he's 20, be patient, which I know gets super tiring, because I'm trying to say this is "aaaaallll part of the plaaaan" and Dahlin is going to be Hedman. No, maybe it doesn't happen. 

But I do promise you he's going to be a really good hockey player. He will be, I promise. He's so young. If you can't live with the fact he may not be as billed, my sympathies, and I get that. But he's going to be a real key piece. Just maybe not the best D-man in the world. 

 

...Then again, in his third year, Hedman had 23 points and was a -9. So what do I know. 

I think he believes in an earning your ice time philosophy he can't unhypocritically put into practice, up to and including to the detriment of his team. 

I'm not saying he's a bad coach. If he can learn to adjust his ways to fit a winning system, he can stay. 

When should we expect him to live up to the hype of #1 overall 'generational' player?  I just see something missing with him. That little extra that makes someone great.

[Carmel Corn]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Maybe we are better on the road 

Yup, too much pressure playing in front of Sabretooth

[Thorner]

Just now, klos1963 said:

When should we expect him to live up to the hype of #1 overall 'generational' player?  I just see something missing with him. That little extra that makes someone great.

Come on man! I covered that in my post haha

It may never happen. 

Eichel was generational too but I learned to live with a top 10-15 forward in the world. 

Dahlin will be good. 

[Pimlach]

I liked seeing Reinhart on the first line.  68 and 72 are not yet playing good enough to play on that line.  Maybe they will be someday but that are not ready to be first line forwards.  

Skinner needs to play on line two and they need to let him play his game and try to generate offense with him and his skills.  He has been signed to an outrageous long term contract so they better figure out how to accommodate his skills.

Good coaching means getting the most out of your players, not forcing them into a system you perceive to be best for your collection of 20.  

Constant and continuous change of GMs and Coaches is not a good way to build.  
 

 

[Thorner]

Getting a bunch of really really good players instead of a bunch of generational guys is more annoying, and a scathing commentary on the strategy of tanking, than it is a comment on our future ability to field a cup contender. 

Eichel's offensive output is good enough to be the best offensive output on a cup team, there is proof of that already. Gotta build and construct a team. 

I'm sorry to say there are no free ticket to contention players - doesn't Edmonton have 2 guys better than Jack? How many cups so far? - and we were indeed sold that. 

Take more issue with who did the selling than the players themselves. 

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Thorny

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

When should we expect him to live up to the hype of #1 overall 'generational' player?  I just see something missing with him. That little extra that makes someone great.

I agree.  Dahlin needs to start taking over the game.  I saw Orr come up as a boy playing against men and he made them all look sick.   Scoring stats do not tell the whole story.  Orr dominated the game in his era pretty much right from the start.  
 

 

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I agree.  Dahlin needs to start taking over the game.  I saw Orr come up as a boy playing against men and he made them all look sick.   Scoring stats do not tell the whole story.  Orr dominated the game in his era pretty much right from the start.  
 

 

He's not Orr. Rip the bandaid off. 

[sabremike]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I agree.  Dahlin needs to start taking over the game.  I saw Orr come up as a boy playing against men and he made them all look sick.   Scoring stats do not tell the whole story.  Orr dominated the game in his era pretty much right from the start.  
 

 

Denis Potvin (the only defenseman who IMO is even in the same conversation as Orr) was not Denis Potvin the first few years of his career and that was with Al Arbor as his coach, who you must concede was a wee bit better than Ralph. Victor Hedman, the undisputed best defenseman in the league didn't light the world on fire his first few years. 

[dudacek]

43 minutes ago, Thorny said:

. 

I think he believes in an earning your ice time philosophy he can't unhypocritically put into practice, up to and including to the detriment of his team. 

I'm not saying he's a bad coach. If he can learn to adjust his ways to fit a winning system, he can stay. 

I don’t think he moved Skinner out of the top six because he didn’t “earn” it. I think he did it because he didn’t trust him in that role. That’s what I meant when I said people are too focused on promotions and demotions.

[Brawndo]

30 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I liked seeing Reinhart on the first line.  68 and 72 are not yet playing good enough to play on that line.  Maybe they will be someday but that are not ready to be first line forwards.  

Skinner needs to play on line two and they need to let him play his game and try to generate offense with him and his skills.  He has been signed to an outrageous long term contract so they better figure out how to accommodate his skills.

Good coaching means getting the most out of your players, not forcing them into a system you perceive to be best for your collection of 20.  

Constant and continuous change of GMs and Coaches is not a good way to build.  
 

 

Neither is continuing to pick subpar coaches and GMs and holding on to them for the sake of continuity. 
 

For the record I would keep Adams for awhile longer though. 

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t think he moved Skinner out of the top six because he didn’t “earn” it. I think he did it because he didn’t trust him in that role. That’s what I meant when I said people are too focused on promotions and demotions.

The issue of maximizing how much you are able to benefit from your best goal scorer supersedes the trust issue. If they didn't want to play him in the top 6, fine. They had ample time to ensure he had line mates that weren't waiver/pto players. 

I care about the result. They are judged for their result. If Skinner is with Sheahan and Lazar, it's their fault.  

The answer can't be to play him with those guys. If that's what happened, we've also actively made the wrong choice on game day. Because if your game plan and system relegates it's best scorer to L4 with nobodies for functionality purposes, dayummm that's a bad game plan/system. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Thorny
It's weird that some of the text goes big when you copy paste to combine posts

[Gatorman0519]

Reinhart needs to go to the top line

Put Skinner with Stall 

let Cozens work with Eakin a while 

Fill in the rest 

it’s not rocket science 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Gatorman0519

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I think it needs to be acknowledged that Eichel is better with Reinhart.

He certainly was tonight.

My 2 cents:

- They were much improved tonight, especially Reino, and carried the play for most of the game. 

- In fact, that was a pretty good and entertaining hockey game that I enjoyed most of other than the power play.

- Risto brought the thunder a few times, including IIRC one on the dude who laid out Staal.

- Reino and Skinner were their best 2 forwards tonight.  Reino transformed the top line once he joined it. 

- Skinner has been their best forward so far for the season.  Woulda been nice if he had buried one tonight though.  And I liked his post-game comments -- that's a solid pro move.

- Ullmark was much better than Hutton but he made 19 saves and gave up 2 short-side goals and I thought the GWG wasn't great goaltending.

- Another disappointing outing from Eichel, Dahlin, Staal and Olofsson.  I think maybe the long layoff hits the high-end skill guys most, and the precision skills execution needed on the PP?  Are there any elite players from any of the other non-bubble teams that are off to good starts? 

- In any case it just seems like it will take a number of games for Eichel and Dahlin to regain their sharpness.  I am pretty confident they'll get there -- I just hope they aren't 2-8 by then.

- For those doubting RK:  he had them ready to play tonight on a quick turnaround after getting smacked around last night, and Skinner is playing much harder than he did last year.  Their execution on D was much better than last year.  Certainly their PP execution needs to improve, but I think it will.  Now let's see if RK can summon this kind of effort out of them again vs Philly despite losing tonight.  I think he'll be able to. 

 

 

 

[Thorner]

Can't afford to get swept by Philly. 0-4 start in a 56 game season equivalent to losing your first 6 straight in a regular year. 

Would have to play at an ~ 103 point (over 82) pace rest of way to put up a rough playoff pace, if so. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Thorny

[sabremike]

Years back before Marvin Lewis arrived and there were at least winning seasons in Cincinnati there was an editorial cartoon with Dick LeBeau inspiring the team by saying "Let's go out there and lose by less than we usually lose by!". Listening to Ralph on the postgame felt a lot like that. Talk of moral victories and encouraging defeats personify the losing culture he was allegedly brought in to change. Losing needs to be made unacceptable because as long as playing well in defeat is celebrated than losing is all we will continue to do. For God's sake make winning the standard for this organization that it once was seemingly eons ago before it became the dilapidated outhouse of pro hockey under Terry and Kim.

[Thorner]

Being in this division does up the degree of difficulty on an already difficult task, it has to be acknowledged.

If I didn't believe so ardently in a "no excuses" mindset, I'd say it's akin to a wrestling "low blow" when the ref wasn't looking. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think it needs to be acknowledged that Eichel is better with Reinhart.

I disagree, but if you're right, and Eichel needs Reinhart, we shouldn't be so worried about him wanting out one day and trading him. He's clearly not all that great then. 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I disagree, but if you're right, and Eichel needs Reinhart, we shouldn't be so worried about him wanting out one day and trading him. He's clearly not all that great then. 

The Oilers have a 110 point, Art Ross winning, MVP of the NHL player from around the time we drafted Jack. 

Half the time he's the wingman to Connor McDavid. 

Bergeron played with two guys who paced for more points than Jack Eichel. 

I think we can allow our guy Sam freaking Reinhart. 

[Thorner]

We gave Eichel Hall in addition to Sam and he *still* might not play with as much talent as plenty of the other top, top guns. 

We've always asked more of him than other teams ask of their top guys. 

[PerreaultForever]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The Oilers have a 110 point, Art Ross winning, MVP of the NHL player from around the time we drafted Jack. 

Half the time he's the wingman to Connor McDavid. 

Bergeron played with two guys who paced for more points than Jack Eichel. 

I think we can allow our guy Sam freaking Reinhart. 

Oh I see what you're trying to say now. It was the word "needs" that threw me off. You're just saying he needs a good winger not necessary Sam specifically I think.

Let me throw a wrench in your argument though. Ovie plays with Wilson, a player with value, but not a league leading scorer. McDavid and Draisaitl often play on different lines. Zach freakin' Kassian has put in a lot of time on McDavid's wing. As have a number of other less than star players, and McDavid still comes through. Why? Cause he's a LOT better than Jack and wants it more. We gave Eichel Hall, and that should be enough to match Draisaitl McDavid shouldn't it? 

But sure, let's load the top line and then the second line is what exactly besides a big pile of pooh? 

[MODO Hockey]

Im so tired of this team already.. ***** sake, i do not feel any positivity around it either. I hope that changes, if they dont turn this arouns next 10 games im out.

[nucci]

what happened in the offseason that you thought this team would be better?  Adding Hall was good but that's the only real difference

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

what happened in the offseason that you thought this team would be better?  Adding Hall was good but that's the only real difference

This is what I keep wondering. There has been so much unwarranted optimism around here. We're still the exact same team.