You thought I was tough on the Sabres?

[deluca67]

A qoute from the Hockey News p.20

 

"Burning question: Can these guys get their revenue-sharing check before the season starts?"

 

And a big hand for Lindy who finished #2. As in the second coach most likely to be fired first this season(p.9). Maybe if he tries harder he can be #1 :lol:

 

And not one Sabre finished in the Top 20 for any position. Not even an honorable mention. If it weren't for Tim Graham the entire Sabres mention in the mag would have been one big joke. :(

[Saber61]

lol might be a bad write up... but hey lets think about it... is it deserved??? and is it true... im not sure if your a lindy fan but im not... his defensive style in this new nhl is going to hold us back like a big ol' boat anchor..... granted we need good d to stop the new speed of other teams but our team will be further hindered... its like afinogenov and hecht and all those fast guys are skating around with a ball and chain everywhere... like come on lindy let em loose... we've seen what a guy like afinogenov can do when the chains of strict defensive coverage are let loose... basically team russia.... ah well... well see how it pans out.

[VanekDrury]

Maybe it's false hope, but I have a feeling Lindy will let his players go more in this "new style" NHL.

[deluca67]

Maybe it's false hope, but I have a feeling Lindy will let his players go more in this "new style" NHL.

I saw an interesting stat that doesn't look good for Buffalo. The last time out the Sabres were second in PIMs per game with over 33. In a league where special teams will decide many games they will need to cut that number in half. They don't have the blueline strength to kill 5-6 PP's a game.

 

As far as Ruff? I can't complain about the GM not brining in talent then complain about Ruff not being able to do anything with it. With some talent he made it into the finals. If they let him go I wouldn't shed a tear. I believe he is Regier's scap goat if things don't go well. He'll fire Ruff and buy some time. Much like Quinn plans to do with Regier.

[Sabresince70]

Since I don't live near enough to Buffalo to have gotten any news last year, can anyone tell me if Arniel left? I thought I heard that he was going to, but nothing after that. If he did, who is with Lindy? And does anybody know if Vaive is coaching or just doing Maple Leaf games (broadcast). I used to watch Simon's show on Empire and they said he (Vaive) had applied for the assistant job when Arniel was hired. (I can understand why having a person on the bench with more than 80 career goals would be against Lindy's interest, but...) Just curious, thanks.

[deluca67]

Since I don't live near enough to Buffalo to have gotten any news last year, can anyone tell me if Arniel left? I thought I heard that he was going to, but nothing after that. If he did, who is with Lindy? And does anybody know if Vaive is coaching or just doing Maple Leaf games (broadcast). I used to watch Simon's show on Empire and they said he (Vaive) had applied for the assistant job when Arniel was hired. (I can understand why having a person on the bench with more than 80 career goals would be against Lindy's interest, but...) Just curious, thanks.

How great would it be if Rick Vaive was able to work with Vanek on a daily basis. If Vanek turned out to be half the player Rick Vaive was it would be huge for this franchise.

 

Just thinking back to those days brings a smile. I'm sure Rick still has a bunch of bruises that have yet to heal and Sherwood imbedded on his back. No one gave up more to score a goal then he did. He could have easily played alot more years and scored more goals if he stayed away from the front of the net. It was like he felt guilty if he scored a goal and didn't hammered to the ice.

[inkman]

Vanek has 5 times the talent Rick "cement shoes" Vaive, played with. Yeah he took a pounding and got his share of goals but I will be sorely dissappointed if that is the level of of play that Vanek reaches. :P

[Taro T]

I saw an interesting stat that doesn't look good for Buffalo. The last time out the Sabres were second in PIMs per game with over 33. In a league where special teams will decide many games they will need to cut that number in half. They don't have the blueline strength to kill 5-6 PP's a game.

 

As far as Ruff? I can't complain about the GM not brining in talent then complain about Ruff not being able to do anything with it. With some talent he made it into the finals. If they let him go I wouldn't shed a tear. I believe he is Regier's scap goat if things don't go well. He'll fire Ruff and buy some time. Much like Quinn plans to do with Regier.

The penalty minutes last time out don't bother me too much. With Boulton and Zhitnik begin gone, that gets rid of over 200 minutes. Peters is still here, but almost all his minutes were due to fights so he usually didn't put the Sabres shorthanded. My guess is that he will probably have his butt glued to the bench unless Lindy wants to see a fight.

 

The Sabres had a lot of penalty minutes in '03-04, but only took about one more penalty per game than the league average (15.7 vs. 14.9). The Sabres minute total was inflated by having Peters and Boulton get into fights about every other game.

 

I expect the Sabres to be pretty even in total powerplay opportunities with their opponents this year. As long as the Sabres don't start getting penalized significantly more often than the opponents, I don't think it will sink them even if they are slightly more penalized than the opposition. Their penalty killing has traditionally been in the top 1/2 of the league. Not having Zhitnik on the penalty kill will hurt, but considering the number of penalties he took, the Sabres have been used to not having him out on the penalty kill. Losing Patrick hurts the penalty kill, but I do think that Fitzpatrick, Kalinen, and McKee can be solid penalty killers. Hopefully Lydman or Tallinder (or even Numminen can be adequate at the 4th spot). I expect the replacement of Zhitnik with Numminen to help the powerplay a little and the loss of Satan to hurt with the net effect being mostly a wash. Hopefully the Sabres will be a little better on powerplay, but I expect to see them in the middle of the pack on that and probably around 10th on penalty kill.

 

The fact that the Sabres have historically used 3 sets of penalty killers instead of only 2 like most teams could be a huge benefit for the Sabres if the obstruction crackdown lasts the entire year. The special teams guys will get a lot of ice time, that the Sabres put more guys on special teams may help them stay a little stronger in the 3rd than their opponents. At least that is the theory.

 

Dave.

[deluca67]

Vanek has 5 times the talent Rick "cement shoes" Vaive, played with. Yeah he took a pounding and got his share of goals but I will be sorely dissappointed if that is the level of of play that Vanek reaches. :P

441 goals in 876 games? Not good enough for you :lol:

 

Considering Vaneks total right now stands at '0' I think 441 is a nice long term goal ;)

[Sabresince70]

And Vaive wasn't a slow starter, either. He scored 280 goals in his first 7 years - I would take anyone who averages 40 goals a year. (Also removes the "c" discussion).

[inkman]

According to my calculations, Vaive averaged just over 31 goals per NHL season. A great #, but not 40. With all the hype Vanek is getting, I'm sure 31 goals will be a dissapointment. Personally, I would love to see 31 goals and 80 points(in his first season) but we'll see. :rolleyes:

[deluca67]

According to my calculations, Vaive averaged just over 31 goals per NHL season. A great #, but not 40. With all the hype Vanek is getting, I'm sure 31 goals will be a dissapointment. Personally, I would love to see 31 goals and 80 points(in his first season) but we'll see. :rolleyes:

Vaive did play with Sitler. The Sabres don't have that quality player to pair Vanek with.

[Sabresince70]

Didn't mean to get into any personalities. I only asked who the assistant coaches were (I heard trhat Arniel was leaving) and if Vaive was in the running (he had been looked at when Arniel was hired - and Lever had left). I wasn't saying he should be playing or anything like that - only that he might be a good mentor on the bench for Vanek.

 

And my apologies to Inkman for not being more specific on the 40 goal/yr . I was only refering to his first 7 years.

[Taro T]

Vaive did play with Sitler. The Sabres don't have that quality player to pair Vanek with.

Vaive and Sittler overlapped for a year or 2, but didn't typically play with each other. Derlago was usually Vaive's centerman.

 

Also, replying to someone else's post, not yours. Although no one would ever confuse Vaive with Pavel Bure in the speed department, he had pretty good speed when he came into the league and in his first few years in TO. A lot of his goals in his 50 goal seasons were scored on booming slap shots on rushes down the wing, not Espoish garbage goals. He definitely did not have "cement shoes" when he came into the league.

 

Also, I agree that Vanek does not have a true sniper to mentor him, but Briere can help him with the power play. The power play is one thing Briere does extremely well.

 

Dave.

[deluca67]

Also, I agree that Vanek does not have a true sniper to mentor him, but Briere can help him with the power play. The power play is one thing Briere does extremely well.

Isn't that apples and oranges? Briere is more of a set up man. That last thing anyone wants is for Vanek to look pass first. It should (and will) be the other four players on the ice job to get Vanek the puck and he has to learn to bury it. With his shot he will grow to be a 50+ goal scorer. But he needs that sniper mentality. Puck hits his stick and then the back of the net. Seems simple but never is. ;)

[Taro T]

Isn't that apples and oranges? Briere is more of a set up man. That last thing anyone wants is for Vanek to look pass first. It should (and will) be the other four players on the ice job to get Vanek the puck and he has to learn to bury it. With his shot he will grow to be a 50+ goal scorer. But he needs that sniper mentality. Puck hits his stick and then the back of the net. Seems simple but never is.  ;)

Not really, Briere tied for the team lead in PP goals in '03-'04. When the opportunity is there for him, he does take it. His career powerplay stats are VERY similar to Miro's. I don't think you would accuse Miro of being a set up man. :)

 

I didn't get to see any preseason action, but on paper I think a pp unit having Briere, Dumont, and Vanek up front with Numminen and Lydman at the points should be effective. The second unit could be Afinogenov, Hecht, Drury, Kalinin (if healthy), and Jillson.

 

Dave.

[deluca67]

Not really, Briere tied for the team lead in PP goals in '03-'04. When the opportunity is there for him, he does take it. His career powerplay stats are VERY similar to Miro's. I don't think you would accuse Miro of being a set up man. :)

Not sure what you mean by similar? Satan has twice as many PP goals as Briere has. Satan has only played three more years. I couldn't find the PP assists. I would guess that's where the gap would be closer.

 

And I would never accuse Miro of being a play maker. I don't want my goal scores to think pass first. IMO Vanek's game will round out over time. Just let him go out and rip it. If Lindy tries to throw too much at him? Then they are looking for trouble.

 

Bring back Borge Salming and Lanny MacDonald. :lol:

[Taro T]

Not sure what you mean by similar? Satan has twice as many PP goals as Briere has. Satan has only played three more years. I couldn't find the PP assists. I would guess that's where the gap would be closer.

 

And I would never accuse Miro of being a play maker. I don't want my goal scores to think pass first. IMO Vanek's game will round out over time. Just let him go out and rip it. If Lindy tries to throw too much at him? Then they are looking for trouble.

 

Bring back Borge Salming and Lanny MacDonald. :lol:

Here are the career pp stats of both

 

YR---GP---PPG---PPA

Briere

97----5-----0-----0

98----64---2-----2

99----13---0-----0

00----30---9-----3

01----78--12----10

02----82---9-----16

03----82--11----16

 

Satan

95----62---6-----5

96----76---7-----4

97----79---9----4

98----81--13---8

99----81---5----7

00----82---8---12

01----82---15--9

02----79---11--20

03----82---11--15

 

Briere didn't really get a regular shift until his late season callup by Phoenix in 2000-'01. Looking at those numbers vs Miro's, yes he has averaged slightly lower numbers than Miro, but not significantly. The goal to assist ratio is quite similar (41-45 since 2000-'01 for Briere, 43-47 total and 45-56 since for Miro, 85-84 total).

 

Dave.

[deluca67]

Here are the career pp stats of both

 

YR---GP---PPG---PPA

Briere

97----5-----0-----0

98----64---2-----2

99----13---0-----0

00----30---9-----3

01----78--12----10

02----82---9-----16

03----82--11----16

 

Satan

95----62---6-----5

96----76---7-----4

97----79---9----4

98----81--13---8

99----81---5----7

00----82---8---12

01----82---15--9

02----79---11--20

03----82---11--15

 

Briere didn't really get a regular shift until his late season callup by Phoenix in 2000-'01. Looking at those numbers vs Miro's, yes he has averaged slightly lower numbers than Miro, but not significantly. The goal to assist ratio is quite similar (41-45 since 2000-'01 for Briere, 43-47 total and 45-56 since for Miro, 85-84 total).

 

Dave.

I see your point. I always consider Briere a play maker more then a scorer. In the grand scheme of things it might be better for Vanek if Briere concentrates on getting him the puck. Early on is important. If Vanek can get off to a quick start it would help his comfort level greatly. I would still like to have a true sniper for Vanek to talk to when he hits those games were the pucks hit the post instead of the twine or when every goalie seems unbeatable.

[inkman]

Didn't mean to get into any personalities. I only asked who the assistant coaches were (I heard trhat Arniel was leaving) and if Vaive was in the running (he had been looked at when Arniel was hired - and Lever had left). I wasn't saying he should be playing or anything like that - only that he might be a good mentor on the bench for Vanek.

 

And my apologies to Inkman for not being more specific on the 40 goal/yr . I was only refering to his first 7 years.

I catch your drift. Growing up with the Amerks, I didn't start paying attention to the Sabres/NHL until the early 90's. By then Vaive was old and a shadow of his former self. :)