Riley Sheahan Signed to One Year 700k Contract

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Didn’t he do better as the season went on? He mostly scored on PP early on, but he started to score even strength later in season, if memory serves. 

 

And its nice having too many good players players who can score! Where to put them all is a problem I’m glad we have. Injuries will probably solve some problems I imagine. 

Until he got injured, he was scoring well at ES after he finally broke the seal @ ES.

 

In the 26 games from 11/9 -> 1/2 (1st game scoring an ES goal & the game he got injured) he scored 10 goals and 14 assists total.  (A 31.5goal, 72.5point pace) (Prior to a 5 game slump w/ only 1 assist, he was on fire at a 39 goal, 89.8 point pace.)  Of those, only 3 goals were on the PP and only 3 assists were on the PP.  (A 9.5g, 18.9p pace down from an 11.7 g, 23.4 p pace)  Which means he scored 7 goals ES and 11 assists @ ES.  (22.1 g, 53.6p pace, down from a 27.3g, 66.4p pace prior to the slump)

So, contrary to popular opinion, he actually CAN score at ES and did very well w/Eichel until getting hurt after he finally got over the mental block of not being able to score at ES.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Taro T

[Curt]

57 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Didn’t he do better as the season went on? He mostly scored on PP early on, but he started to score even strength later in season, if memory serves. 

 

And its nice having too many good players players who can score! Where to put them all is a problem I’m glad we have. Injuries will probably solve some problems I imagine. 

He started the season off so poorly that there was nowhere to go but up.

In his first 16 games, he had 0 ES goals.

After that, he had 7 ES goals in 26 games before getting injured.

After coming back from injury in mid February, he had 2 ES goals in 12 games.  

So during that middle stretch of the season, he was doing pretty well.  Scoring at ES at about the same rate that Reinhart and Skinner averaged for the whole season.  If he could keep that up for a whole season, that’s acceptable in the top 6.

[Curt]

19 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Until he got injured, he was scoring well at ES after he finally broke the seal @ ES.

 

In the 26 games from 11/9 -> 1/2 (1st game scoring an ES goal & the game he got injured) he scored 10 goals and 14 assists total.  (A 31.5goal, 72.5point pace) (Prior to a 5 game slump w/ only 1 assist, he was on fire at a 39 goal, 89.8 point pace.)  Of those, only 3 goals were on the PP and only 3 assists were on the PP.  (A 9.5g, 18.9p pace down from an 11.7 g, 23.4 p pace)  Which means he scored 7 goals ES and 11 assists @ ES.  (22.1 g, 53.6p pace, down from a 27.3g, 66.4p pace prior to the slump)

So, contrary to popular opinion, he actually CAN score at ES and did very well w/Eichel until getting hurt after he finally got over the mental block of not being able to score at ES.

Not that your numbers are wrong, but I think it just muddies the issue to keep quoting PP production when ES play is the discussion point. Everyone agrees that he is very good on the PP and should be on the #1 unit.

During his best stretch of the season (those 26 games) he was doing pretty well at ES.  If he can do that for a whole season, that would be good in the top 6.  Though if he is going to have long stretches where he goes cold, that’s not great.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be on the top line, or top 6, but I don’t think he has been so impressive at ES that he simply must be there.  There are scenarios where he could end up on line 3 and it would make sense.

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

He started the season off so poorly that there was nowhere to go but up.

In his first 16 games, he had 0 ES goals.

After that, he had 7 ES goals in 26 games before getting injured.

After coming back from injury in mid February, he had 2 ES goals in 12 games.  

So during that middle stretch of the season, he was doing pretty well.  Scoring at ES at about the same rate that Reinhart and Skinner averaged for the whole season.  If he could keep that up for a whole season, that’s acceptable in the top 6.

Remember, after looking good immediately upon returning from injury and getting 1 goal away from a large bonus he then went into a Miro Satan-esque slump going 7 games with no points before finally getting an assist the 2nd to last game & then the money goal in his last game.  Between dealing w/ the leg & the mental aspect of knowing that next goal was worth a small fortune & 'gripping the stick too tight,' don't really hold the slump against him as much as everybody else seems to.

He definitely can let the game get into his head.  My expectation is he'll be better at avoiding those slumps with being a year older and having worked out of both of them.

[dudacek]

I think that if Olofsson plays with Jack, his ES production will surprise some of you.

I’m not sure why people think that the average of what he was during his first season is all that he will ever be; he was a rookie, who naturally had to adjust to the speed and power of the league, and then adjust again once teams realized what he can do.

This is a player that has done nothing but identify his weaknesses and worked hard to improve them; he’s developed every single season since he was drafted and continued to develop over the course of last season.

I don’t think he’s done.

Edited December 31, 2020 by dudacek

[Taro T]

Just now, Curt said:

Not that your numbers are wrong, but I think it just muddies the issue to keep quoting PP production when ES play is the discussion point. Everyone agrees that he is very good on the PP and should be on the #1 unit.

During his best stretch of the season (those 26 games) he was doing pretty well at ES.  If he can do that for a whole season, that would be good in the top 6.  Though if he is going to have long stretches where he goes cold, that’s not great.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be on the top line, or top 6, but I don’t think he has been so impressive at ES that he simply must be there.  There are scenarios where he could end up on line 3 and it would make sense.

It's not muddling the point at all.  He is viewed by the majority as strictly a PP specialist.  The PP points were brought in to demonstrate that once he finally broke out of only scoring PP goals, he actually was scoring better ES while playing w/ Eichel than on the PP.  It wasn't until his skating was effected upon return that he turned back into the PP specialist that couldn't score at ES.

And it is the perceived lack of ability at ES that is used to justify his not playing as the finisher on the Eichel / Hall line.  When he was both healthy & confident, he was excellent w/ Eichel & Reinhart at ES.

[Curt]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Remember, after looking good immediately upon returning from injury and getting 1 goal away from a large bonus he then went into a Miro Satan-esque slump going 7 games with no points before finally getting an assist the 2nd to last game & then the money goal in his last game.  Between dealing w/ the leg & the mental aspect of knowing that next goal was worth a small fortune & 'gripping the stick too tight,' don't really hold the slump against him as much as everybody else seems to.

He definitely can let the game get into his head.  My expectation is he'll be better at avoiding those slumps with being a year older and having worked out of both of them.

I get it, he has the physical skills to be a good ES scorer, and it may not be a chronic hot-cold thing for him, but he needs to show me that it’s not.

Consistency is what separates the serviceable players from the very good players.  He needs to keep playing well, even when the pressure is on.

If you go hunting for good stretches on the stat sheet, you can find all kinds of “just ok” players who had 26 game stretches just as good.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Curt

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

I get it, it may not be a chronic hot-cold thing for him, but he needs to show me that it’s not.  Consistency is what separates the serviceable players from the very good players.

If you go hunting for good stretches on the stat sheet, you can find all kinds of “just ok” players who had 26 game stretches just as good. (Girgensons, 

Well, if the idea was to just hunt for good stretches or bad stretches, the 1st Swedish TB game would've been included as would the 3 game stint upon coming back from injury.  😉

The games were selected because there were major career milestone events bookending that stretch.

It's perfectly fair to be skeptical about his play.  But really expect that should Krueger play him with Hall & Eichel that those who don't support that decision will be very pleasantly surprised.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Well, if the idea was to just hunt for good stretches or bad stretches, the 1st Swedish TB game would've been included as would the 3 game stint upon coming back from injury.  😉

The games were selected because there were major career milestone events bookending that stretch.

It's perfectly fair to be skeptical about his play.  But really expect that should Krueger play him with Hall & Eichel that those who don't support that decision will be very pleasantly surprised.

I’m not really against the idea of Olofsson on the top line.  I’m just against the idea that he MUST be on the top line.  He is an option for that spot, but just one of multiple options.

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

I’m not really against the idea of Olofsson on the top line.  I’m just against the idea that he MUST be on the top line.  He is an option for that spot, but just one of multiple options.

Wouldn't say he MUST be there.  But my expectation is having him with Hall & Eichel and having the SSS line will optimize the team scoring initially.  So, he SHOULD be there. 😉

Would be really interested in seeing, should Cozens be playing well, Cozens slide into that spot around St. Patty's Day at least for a couple of games.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the real issue. These 5 players are definitely in the top 6 Eichel, Hall, Staal, Reinhart and Skinner.  If we shift VO to RW 2, where are we playing Cozens when he makes the team?  

Do we want him as Eakin’s RW?  I don’t.  If he isn’t playing in our top 6, I want him playing center.

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the real issue. These 5 players are definitely in the top 6 Eichel, Hall, Staal, Reinhart and Skinner.  If we shift VO to RW 2, where are we playing Cozens when he makes the team?  

Do we want him as Eakin’s RW?  I don’t.  If he isn’t playing in our top 6, I want him playing center.

 

Cozens should be pencilled in as the RW on the 3rd scoring line.  Moving up to line 1 or 2 as an RW needs to be earned as would moving to 3S C or shockingly 2C.

Am perfectly fine w/ him starting as Eakins' RW and the 2PP net front presence w/ the opportunity to earn more/ better usage.  Playing on that line he'll face a lot of 3rd scoring lines / energy lines.  He should be winning his battles against those guys & gaining confidence.

As a rookie, right out of the gate, it is very unlikely he'd be putting up #'s better than Reinhart or Olofsson in the identical role.  Krueger needs to maximize the team's output.  Trying to get Cozens to 16 goals rather than 11 doesn't seem to be the best use of the other 4 top 6 assets.  (And this from a guy that wants to see what Dylan can do w/ Eichel & Hall at some point this year.  Just don't want to see it until he's demonstrated being ready for at least small tastes of it.  And if he wows in his abbreviated camp, then sure, let's see if having Reinhart on line 3 and Cozens on line 2 nets out more offense than the other way around.  Just really doubt it'll be the case.)

[Thorner]

15 hours ago, Curt said:

Last season VO was placed in an ideal situation at ES. 1st line mins with the two best passers on the team.  He scored 9 goals in 54 games.

Im not saying that he can’t improve upon that, but if you are worried about messing up what he had going last year, there isn’t much there to mess up.  VO scored at about the same rate as Girgensons, Okposo, Johansson, Vesey, and Sheary.

Assists don't count anymore?

It's a nice stat that jumps off the page but what's the point in leaving out half the context?

He had 25 even strength points, as a rookie, in 54 games. That's actually really good. "There isn't much to mess up" is just way off base. 

That's 38 even strength points over 82. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Curt said:

Not that your numbers are wrong, but I think it just muddies the issue to keep quoting PP production when ES play is the discussion point. Everyone agrees that he is very good on the PP and should be on the #1 unit.

During his best stretch of the season (those 26 games) he was doing pretty well at ES.  If he can do that for a whole season, that would be good in the top 6.  Though if he is going to have long stretches where he goes cold, that’s not great.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be on the top line, or top 6, but I don’t think he has been so impressive at ES that he simply must be there.  There are scenarios where he could end up on line 3 and it would make sense.

Leaving out half his avenue for production muddles it more. 

[Curt]

54 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Assists don't count anymore?

It's a nice stat that jumps off the page but what's the point in leaving out half the context?

He had 25 even strength points, as a rookie, in 54 games. That's actually really good. "There isn't much to mess up" is just way off base. 

That's 38 even strength points over 82. 

Yeah, they do count, I get that.

It’s not irrelevant, but creation for others is not Olofsson’s primary skill set.  We want him to score goals and playing with Eichel/Reinhart he is bound to pick up assists at a higher rate than if he was playing down the lineup.

[Curt]

55 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Leaving out half his avenue for production muddles it more. 

Actually, I think that talking about PP scoring when discussing ES play muddies the discussion more than just not bringing assist into the discussion.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, they do count, I get that.

It’s not irrelevant, but creation for others is not Olofsson’s primary skill set.  We want him to score goals and playing with Eichel/Reinhart he is bound to pick up assists at a higher rate than if he was playing down the lineup.

Maybe you do - I want him to positively impact his linemates, and contribute to his line driving play. I don't care how he does it. Pigeonholing him as a goal scorer for the purposes of skewing a stat in an argument serves no purpose. 

He did what he did. If he had the assists, if he had the production, he had the production. 

He performed well at even strength, that's what the numbers say. That his production would fall off more so down the lineup than other players, yet him being in possession of a skill set that makes him particularly amendable to playing with top talent, is a big part of my argument for why I want him in the top 6. 

You can certainly argue he's 100% a product of his line mates and we'd be better off with someone else there, but my contention was more so your point about how we "didn't have much to lose" by shifting VO down, and that's just not true. There's plenty of potential production loss. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Maybe you do - I want him to positively impact his linemates, and contribute to his line driving play. I don't care how he does it. 

Yeah, of course.  You think I don’t?

I just see the most important aspect of his game as his goal scoring.  I don’t think his usefulness as a puck carrier or playmaker, or defensive presence, or anything else comes close to his usefulness as a shooter.  

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, of course.  You think I don’t?

I just see the most important aspect of his game as his goal scoring.  I don’t think his usefulness as a puck carrier or playmaker, or defensive presence, or anything else comes close to his usefulness as a shooter.  

We must be careful not to confuse shooting aptitude with goals, exclusively. Eichel has a wondrous shot that results in assists as much as it does goals. I saw quite a few cash VO rebounds last year, too. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

We must be careful not to confuse shooting aptitude with goals, exclusively. Eichel has a wondrous shot that results in assists as much as it does goals. I saw quite a few cash VO rebounds last year, too. 

Valid point.

[bob_sauve28]

15 hours ago, Taro T said:

Cozens should be pencilled in as the RW on the 3rd scoring line.  Moving up to line 1 or 2 as an RW needs to be earned as would moving to 3S C or shockingly 2C.

Am perfectly fine w/ him starting as Eakins' RW and the 2PP net front presence w/ the opportunity to earn more/ better usage.  Playing on that line he'll face a lot of 3rd scoring lines / energy lines.  He should be winning his battles against those guys & gaining confidence.

As a rookie, right out of the gate, it is very unlikely he'd be putting up #'s better than Reinhart or Olofsson in the identical role.  Krueger needs to maximize the team's output.  Trying to get Cozens to 16 goals rather than 11 doesn't seem to be the best use of the other 4 top 6 assets.  (And this from a guy that wants to see what Dylan can do w/ Eichel & Hall at some point this year.  Just don't want to see it until he's demonstrated being ready for at least small tastes of it.  And if he wows in his abbreviated camp, then sure, let's see if having Reinhart on line 3 and Cozens on line 2 nets out more offense than the other way around.  Just really doubt it'll be the case.)

Him and Lazar together would be great, IMO. But ya, not forever. Two big bodies, speed and I bet they could produce from the fourth spot. 

 

Super excited about this season! 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Him and Lazar together would be great, IMO. But ya, not forever. Two big bodies, speed and I bet they could produce from the fourth spot. 

 

Super excited about this season! 

Cozens, Lazar, and Okposo would be an interesting line to start Cozens career.  Two hard working vets, one with a stellar reputation and great hands, both with size and grit.  I think Cozens could learn alot in a short period of time playing with those two.

 

[bob_sauve28]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

Cozens, Lazar, and Okposo would be an interesting line to start Cozens career.  Two hard working vets, one with a stellar reputation and great hands, both with size and grit.  I think Cozens could learn alot in a short period of time playing with those two.

 

I’d love to see it. I like Kyle with Grigs but Cozens would be fun to watch with them two and I bet it would work as a line. 

[Thorner]

8 hours ago, Weave said:

Cozens, Lazar, and Okposo would be an interesting line to start Cozens career.  Two hard working vets, one with a stellar reputation and great hands, both with size and grit.  I think Cozens could learn alot in a short period of time playing with those two.

 

Don't like it. I'm honestly not worried about Cozens work ethic (already branded the workhorse from whitehorse?) but I'd sure like him to play with a couple guys who might help him contribute on offense. Okposo would be ok I guess, but that starts Cozens at C. I'd prefer someone with a higher talent level on the other wing. 

[Brawndo]