Everything Kevyn Adams has done as Sabres GM

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Reinhart for Levi and Kulich might be a franchise defining trade for Buffalo.

And don’t forget Granato moving Tage to the middle and turning him into a superstar offensive centre for the Sabres.

And to a lesser exgtend moving Mitts to the wing salvaged what was a descending career. When one tabulates all the personnel and coaching decisions that have been made since the installation of KA, the overwhelming proportion of them have worked out. And sometimes not doing something turns out to be a good decision that many of us are not even aware of.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Reinhart for Levi and Kulich might be a franchise defining trade for Buffalo.

And don’t forget Granato moving Tage to the middle and turning him into a superstar offensive centre for the Sabres.

I liked the Reinhart deal when he made it but ya, the Tage move was a game changer as we all know and nobody expected that. We all saw the size and wanted Tage to be a power forward and were frustrated by how he didn't use his size but Granato saw what he did do well and went with those things and found a way and it worked big time. 

I'm not sure if it was genius or luck though. Doesn't matter either way, but it is possible he just tried it for lack of better options and it just worked. 

[JohnC]

20 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I liked the Reinhart deal when he made it but ya, the Tage move was a game changer as we all know and nobody expected that. We all saw the size and wanted Tage to be a power forward and were frustrated by how he didn't use his size but Granato saw what he did do well and went with those things and found a way and it worked big time. 

I'm not sure if it was genius or luck though. Doesn't matter either way, but it is possible he just tried it for lack of better options and it just worked. 

The move to center was not based on luck. Granato coached Tage in some tournaments where he played center. So, he had some familiarity with him before he got into the league. It was a smart decision by an astute coach whose forte is working with young players. 

[Flashsabre]

20 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I liked the Reinhart deal when he made it but ya, the Tage move was a game changer as we all know and nobody expected that. We all saw the size and wanted Tage to be a power forward and were frustrated by how he didn't use his size but Granato saw what he did do well and went with those things and found a way and it worked big time. 

I'm not sure if it was genius or luck though. Doesn't matter either way, but it is possible he just tried it for lack of better options and it just worked. 

And Adams holding out on the Eichel trade for Tuch was a great move. Tage and Skinner have been great the past 2 years but a lot of that can be attributed to adding Tuch to that line. Tuch has been everything and more that the Sabres could have asked for.

Eichel for Tuch, Krebs, Greenway And Östlund is looking like it will be a franchise shaping deal.

We can all nit pick at what Adams has done or not done but the hiring of Granato and trading Eichel and Reinhart in deals that look like they will really help the Sabres are his biggest positives.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

The move to center was not based on luck. Granato coached Tage in some tournaments where he played center. So, he had some familiarity with him before he got into the league. It was a smart decision by an astute coach whose forte is working with young players. 

You assume that, you don't know that. 

The thing was when the switch was made we basically had nobody who could play center ice. Granato was trying all kinds of things. The ones that didn't work we've forgotten. This one did. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

You assume that, you don't know that. 

The thing was when the switch was made we basically had nobody who could play center ice. Granato was trying all kinds of things. The ones that didn't work we've forgotten. This one did. 

I certainly do know because the coach talked about the switch on WGR. It was a deliberate changing of position for a player he previously worked with. And it should be noted that before Tage was drafted he played the center position. You are the person making an assumption, a wrong one at that. 

[Eleven]

The Sabres traded for Thompson with the knowledge that he was/is a center.  Krueger's failure to deploy him correctly doesn't change that.

Here is just one article from the time of the trade; he is described as a center:  https://www.nhl.com/news/sabres-trade-oreilly-to-blues-for-three-forwards-pair-of-draft-picks/c-299385990

Here is hockeydb's 2016 draft:  https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2016e.html

Thompson always was a center.  Granato just moved him back to his natural position and I don't see how Adams had anything to do with it, but maybe he did.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Eleven

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 4/2/2023 at 3:31 PM, JohnC said:

And to a lesser exgtend moving Mitts to the wing salvaged what was a descending career.

John, I flat-out disagree with your statement here.

Here is Casey's career in numbers.

Year 1 - 1st half 11 pts in 40 games (.28 pts/gp)

Year 1 - 2nd half 14 pts in 37 games (.38)

Year 2 - 31 games - 9 pts (.29) but RK was the coach so he can be forgiven for regressing. (.69 pts/gp in 36 AHL games).  

Year 3 - 22 pts in 41 games played (.54)

Year 4 - 19 pts in 40 games played (.48)

Year 5 - 1st half - 25 pts in 41 games (.61)

Year 5 - 2nd half - 24 pts in 34 games (.71)

Outside his 2nd season under offense killer RK, Casey has basically improved every 40 or so NHL games he's played. Not a straight line of course, but pretty close.  Remember in year 4 he played through the entire 2nd half of the season with a hand injury and still managed nearly .5 pts/gp.  I'm sorry, but the stats don't reflect a descending career, but a slow ascending one.  

I have never seen a player as misunderstood as Casey by the fans here and across Sabreland.  The more the Sabres' management has properly defined his role the more he has improved.  If anyone watched him in college, you'd have realized that his potential was that of a middle-six forward and that is what he has become.  

At Minn Casey only had 30 pts in 34 games.  Yes, the Gophers weren't great that year, but they had a decent team starring Casey, Rem Pitlick, Thomas Novak, and Ryan Lindgren who are all solid NHL players.  By comparison, Eichel had 71 pts in 40 college games also as a Freshman.

While Casey's offense has improved as this season went along, the real change is in +/-.  In the first half of the season, Casey was -12.   In the second half, Casey has a +/- of zero.  

The way Casey is trending, both offensively and as a 2-way player, don't be surprised if he gets an extension this off-season.  Please remember that good teams have good secondary scoring and players who can fill multiple roles to help the team weather injuries.  Casey in becoming that kind of player.

Edited April 4, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

John, I flat-out disagree with your statement here.

Here is Casey's career in numbers.

Year 1 - 1st half 11 pts in 40 games (.28 pts/gp)

Year 1 - 2nd half 14 pts in 37 games (.38)

Year 2 - 31 games - 9 pts (.29) but RK was the coach so he can be forgiven for regressing. (.69 pts/gp in 36 AHL games).  

Year 3 - 22 pts in 41 games played (.54)

Year 4 - 19 pts in 40 games played (.48)

Year 5 - 1st half - 25 pts in 41 games (.61)

Year 5 - 2nd half - 24 pts in 34 games (.71)

Outside his 2nd season under offense killer RK, Casey has basically improved every 40 or so NHL games he's played. Not a straight line of course, but pretty close.  Remember in year 4 he played through the entire 2nd half of the season with a hand injury and still managed nearly .5 pts/gp.  I'm sorry, but the stats don't reflect a descending career, but a slow ascending one.  

I have never seen a player as misunderstood as Casey by the fans here and across Sabreland.  The more the Sabres' management has properly defined his role the more he has improved.  If anyone watched him in college, you'd have realized that his potential was that of a middle-six forward and that is what he has become.  

At Minn Casey only had 30 pts in 34 games.  Yes, the Gophers weren't great that year, but they had a decent team starring Casey, Rem Pitlick, Thomas Novak, and Ryan Lindgren who are all solid NHL players.  By comparison, Eichel had 71 pts in 40 college games also as a Freshman.

While Casey's offense has improved as this season went along, the real change is in +/-.  In the first half of the season, Casey was -12.   In the second half, Casey has a +/- of zero.  

The way Casey is trending, both offensively and as a 2-way player, don't be surprised if he gets an extension this off-season.  Please remember that good teams have good secondary scoring and players who can fill multiple roles to help the team weather injuries.  Casey in becoming that kind of player.

I think one of Casey’s biggest obstacle was his performance at the 2018 World Juniors. He had 11 points in 7 games.  Some fans were actually asking if he was better than Eichel.  

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

John, I flat-out disagree with your statement here.

Here is Casey's career in numbers.

Year 1 - 1st half 11 pts in 40 games (.28 pts/gp)

Year 1 - 2nd half 14 pts in 37 games (.38)

Year 2 - 31 games - 9 pts (.29) but RK was the coach so he can be forgiven for regressing. (.69 pts/gp in 36 AHL games).  

Year 3 - 22 pts in 41 games played (.54)

Year 4 - 19 pts in 40 games played (.48)

Year 5 - 1st half - 25 pts in 41 games (.61)

Year 5 - 2nd half - 24 pts in 34 games (.71)

Outside his 2nd season under offense killer RK, Casey has basically improved every 40 or so NHL games he's played. Not a straight line of course, but pretty close.  Remember in year 4 he played through the entire 2nd half of the season with a hand injury and still managed nearly .5 pts/gp.  I'm sorry, but the stats don't reflect a descending career, but a slow ascending one.  

I have never seen a player as misunderstood as Casey by the fans here and across Sabreland.  The more the Sabres' management has properly defined his role the more he has improved.  If anyone watched him in college, you'd have realized that his potential was that of a middle-six forward and that is what he has become.  

At Minn Casey only had 30 pts in 34 games.  Yes, the Gophers weren't great that year, but they had a decent team starring Casey, Rem Pitlick, Thomas Novak, and Ryan Lindgren who are all solid NHL players.  By comparison, Eichel had 71 pts in 40 college games also as a Freshman.

While Casey's offense has improved as this season went along, the real change is in +/-.  In the first half of the season, Casey was -12.   In the second half, Casey has a +/- of zero.  

The way Casey is trending, both offensively and as a 2-way player, don't be surprised if he gets an extension this off-season.  Please remember that good teams have good secondary scoring and players who can fill multiple roles to help the team weather injuries.  Casey in becoming that kind of player.

I agree with you that he is a middle-six forward. But what is his best role on that line? It is as a winger, not center. He has added value because he is versatile enough to play center when needed, but on a permanent basis I'm not sure that is his best role. Where he has thrived and stood out is as a winger battling on the wall. In fact, it isn't outlandish to say that he is our best wall player. What happens if the coach decides to put Krebs on a Mitts line. Which of those players would most likely be slotted as the center? Overwhelmingly, I would say Krebs. 

There isn't anyone here who has been more of an advocate for Mitts as a player on this forum than I have. (And as a minority voice have also advocated for Joki.) As I said in the prior post, the coach deciding to move Mitts to the wing better suited his game. It put the player in a better position to succeed than if he kept him at center. 

Will Casey get an extension this offseason? Considering how proactive our GM is in dealing with contracts I would say it is likely. And I would be happy about it. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

34 minutes ago, inkman said:

I think one of Casey’s biggest obstacle was his performance at the 2018 World Juniors. He had 11 points in 7 games.  Some fans were actually asking if he was better than Eichel.  

That and the 5 pts in 6 games he put up after he signed his ELC.  His initial NHL points also came on the wing.  

[dudacek]

The core of Adams rebuild comes down 3 things, IMO:

1) The transformation of the front office: Karmanos, Ventura, Forton, the increased reliance on analytics and player development, and the implementation of a "team" philosophy where everyone feels heard. Time will tell with the prospects, but generally speaking, player evaluation seems to have taken a significant step forward.

2) The transformation of player culture: focusing on players who want to be here, treating them with respect, and surrounding them with guys like Granato, Appert, Mair and more whose philosophy is all about continuous, positive self-improvement. The development of the players already in the system has been shockingly good.

3) The great sell-off of 2021: Turning the tank core of Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen into Tuch, Krebs, Östlund, Greenway, Kulich, Levi, Rosen and a player to be determined in June. Tuch was a better return than we reasonably could have expected given the Eichel situation. The others we shall see.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

The core of Adams rebuild comes down 3 things, IMO:

1) The transformation of the front office: Karmanos, Ventura, Forton, the increased reliance on analytics and player development, and the implementation of a "team" philosophy where everyone feels heard. Time will tell with the prospects, but generally speaking, player evaluation seems to have taken a significant step forward.

2) The transformation of player culture: focusing on players who want to be here, treating them with respect, and surrounding them with guys like Granato, Appert, Mair and more whose philosophy is all about continuous, positive self-improvement. The development of the players already in the system has been shockingly good.

3) The great sell-off of 2021: Turning the tank core of Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen into Tuch, Krebs, Östlund, Greenway, Kulich, Levi, Rosen and a player to be determined in June. Tuch was a better return than we reasonably could have expected given the Eichel situation. The others we shall see.

Your missing one step - building on the quality assets already here (or in the organization)  - Dahlin, Samuelsson, Thompson, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Jokiharju, UPL, VO, Rousek and Johnson (once he signs).  

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Your missing one step - building on the quality assets already here (or in the organization)  - Dahlin, Samuelsson, Thompson, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Jokiharju, UPL, VO, Rousek and Johnson (once he signs).  

I think that fits nicely under transformation of the player culture

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Turning the tank core of Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen into Tuch, Krebs, Östlund, Greenway, Kulich, Levi, Rosen and a player to be determined in June.

That really is an amazing haul.  You could almost say that Tuch ~= Eichel, Krebs (almost) = Reino, and Greenway ~= Risto.  (I know Greenway and Risto play different positions, but thinking of physical impact.)  PLUS Östlund, Kulich, Levi, Rosen and a draft pick this year?  Holy moley.

[mjd1001]

9 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

That really is an amazing haul.  You could almost say that Tuch ~= Eichel, Krebs (almost) = Reino, and Greenway ~= Risto.  (I know Greenway and Risto play different positions, but thinking of physical impact.)  PLUS Östlund, Kulich, Levi, Rosen and a draft pick this year?  Holy moley.

Tuch is proving to be as productive (or more) than Eichel, and might be a better fit here. Krebs is not even close to Reinhart. Krebs HAS improved this year, but he isn't even in the same zip code as far as Reinhart in terms of production, and he still loses a lot of battles and if someone gets behind him he rarely catches up on the backcheck.  Krebs can get better and hopefully he will continue to do so, but him and Reinhart aren't even close at this moment.  The Greenway/Risto comparison....Ristos biggest problem is the mistakes he made...Greenway so far look like his issue is that he doesn't make mistakes but doesn't do much productive (up until the last 2 days).  Their overall value may be the same, but how they get there, I don't know yet.

[Doohicksie]

Yeah I'll admit to considerable "rounding error" especially with regard to the Reino-Krebs comparison.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think that fits nicely under transformation of the player culture

I disagree.  Rebuilding an organization starts and ends with talent.  All the great platitudes, such as "building with players that want to be here," are meaningless unless those players are actually good at hockey.  Jbot left KA a solid foundation to build upon.  KA and his staff have done a good job of developing that talent, but again no talent no development.

The real rebuild steps are (Platitudes need not apply)

1) Build a competent front office and coaching staff. - Done (although the coaching needs help on defense)

2) Evaluate the players on hand and in the pipeline. Get rid of any players that don't fit what the coaches want to do or make trouble in the locker room.  Use these assets to accomplish steps 3 and/or 4.  This is still in process and is ongoing (see KO, Z, Bryson and VO for example)

3) Draft and develop to create a long-term pipeline of talent.  Done and still in process

4) Acquire veteran players to fill the roster holes.  4th D and at least one goaltender are still needed.  Also possibly a 4th line center.

This team is now on step 4. 

Winning usually solves all the "do the guys want to be here" BS.  

Edited April 4, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Believer]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Krebs can get better and hopefully he will continue to do so, but him and Reinhart aren't even close at this moment. 

Agree… but Krebs is 22… Reinhardt is 28… Do a comparison after Krebs puts on more muscle and gains more NHL experience…

Unlike Reinhardt, Krebs is delighted to be a Sabre, with an infectious smile every game… Already a fan favorite… Krebs is all upside…

Tuch, Krebs and two draft choices (‘22 Östlund), (‘23 TBD) for Eichel?… KA picked McCrimmon’s pocket

 

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I disagree.  Rebuilding an organization starts and ends with talent.  All the great platitudes, such as "building with players that want to be here," are meaningless unless those players are actually good at hockey.  Jbot left KA a solid foundation to build upon.  KA and his staff have done a good job of developing that talent, but again no talent no development.

The real rebuild steps are (Platitudes need not apply)

1) Build a competent front office and coaching staff. - Done (although the coaching needs help on defense)

2) Evaluate the players on hand and in the pipeline. Get rid of any players that don't fit what the coaches want to do or make trouble in the locker room.  Use these assets to accomplish steps 3 and/or 4.  This is still in process and is ongoing (see KO, Z, Bryson and VO for example)

3) Draft and develop to create a long-term pipeline of talent.  Done and still in process

4) Acquire veteran players to fill the roster holes.  4th D and at least one goaltender are still needed.  Also possibly a 4th line center.

This team is now on step 4. 

Winning usually solves all the "do the guys want to be here" BS.  

LOL. I was responding to your misinterpretation of my post.

Come on man, are you actually telling me that you know what I meant better than I did? 😜

 

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

LOL. I was responding to your misinterpretation of my post.

Come on man, are you actually telling me that you know what I meant better than I did? 😜

 

Pretty sure that is limited to the female half of the species.

[Carmel Corn]

8 hours ago, inkman said:

I think one of Casey’s biggest obstacle was his performance at the 2018 World Juniors. He had 11 points in 7 games.  Some fans were actually asking if he was better than Eichel.  

As I recall, he was on a line with Brady Tkachuk, which certainly helped his productivity and performance that tournament.

[Carmel Corn]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Your missing one step - building on the quality assets already here (or in the organization)  - Dahlin, Samuelsson, Thompson, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Jokiharju, UPL, VO, Rousek and Johnson (once he signs).  

Joki and UPL????  I would not call them quality assets vs. the other names preceding them in your list.  VO has a nitch, albeit a narrow one.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Carmel Corn said:

Joki and UPL????  I would not call them quality assets vs. the other names preceding them in your list.  VO has a nitch, albeit a narrow one.

Let's see - Joki is playing top 4 minutes for a playoff contending team.  He is a good NHL defenseman who is probably best suited to the 5, but that doesn't diminish the minutes he's given us every season since acquired.

I'm not a fan of UPL, but he is only 23 and has given us credible goaltending for the majority of his starts.  I believe he will be a good NHL backup long-term and that is a quality asset.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Let's see - Joki is playing top 4 minutes for a playoff contending team.  He is a good NHL defenseman who is probably best suited to the 5, but that doesn't diminish the minutes he's given us every season since acquired.

I'm not a fan of UPL, but he is only 23 and has given us credible goaltending for the majority of his starts.  I believe he will be a good NHL backup long-term and that is a quality asset.

No he hasn't.