Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[LGR4GM]

Why should I believe in this team? Why? 

[pi2000]

The lineup is certainly improved.   Goaltending is still a question mark.

Unfortunately, they're in the toughest division and will probably be out of playoff contention in as soon as 2-3 weeks time.  

I look at this as a season of growth (playing top teams) and figuring out who will be part of the long term solution.  They have 12 players on expiring contracts, only 2 D under contract after this season...  It's basically a season long tryout for more than half the roster.

 

[Curt]

Just now, WildCard said:

And then what? Cozens works out (hopefully) and...what? Hall is gone, Stahl is old, Adams has shown no ability to draft or work FA outside of throwing money at Hall. 

I'll enjoy the season, and hope for a playoff berth, but that's where my hope ends.

Then what?  Hall resigns.  Cozens works out.  Staal is old and is gone.  Kevy hasn’t shown that he CAN’T draft and he hasn’t shown the ability to get FAs except signing the best FA available.

I don’t know that everything is going to work out great, but it’s not all doom and gloom.

[Radar]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Why should I believe in this team? Why? 

You shouldn't necessarily. I'm not sure if I do but for gosh sakes I'm going to at least let the season begin before white flag day.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Curt said:

A lot of negativity in here for a team that looks to be better than any team of the past decade-ish.

I think everyone agrees that the top 6 looks great and the D group looks solid with upside potential.  I'm not worried about Ullmark but he needs to be better on the PK.

Unfortunately, while all the above is very positive, there is one huge significant hole in this roster and that is the bottom six forward group.  RK has sadly made sure that 20-25 minutes a night we'll have no offense.  That's just foolish.

We also have a long-term problem.  Hall and Staal, two keys pieces in our top 6, are probably only here for this season.  If we don't groom guys like Cozens, Mitts, and R2 for those roles now, they won't be ready next year when we need them for a bigger role.  That is why Cozens, Mitts or R2 need to be Skinner's center now.  We need to them to help make Skinner productive this season and to find out if any will be ready for a bigger role next season.  

[WildCard]

Just now, Curt said:

Then what?  Hall resigns.  Cozens works out.  Staal is old and is gone.  Kevy hasn’t shown that he CAN’T draft and he hasn’t shown the ability to get FAs except signing the best FA available.

I don’t know that everything is going to work out great, but it’s not all doom and gloom.

If Hall re-signs we're screwed; it will be a long term contract on an old and hurt winger. If it's not I'll throw a parade.

It's just the opposite of watching the Bills, who had a plan and slowly but surely made smart moves, smart draft picks, and changed a culture. This all just looks like a jumbled, uncoordinated mess with no clear theme or plan. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

The lineup is certainly improved.   Goaltending is still a question mark.

Unfortunately, they're in the toughest division and will probably be out of playoff contention in as soon as 2-3 weeks time.  

I look at this as a season of growth (playing top teams) and figuring out who will be part of the long term solution.  They have 12 players on expiring contracts, only 2 D under contract after this season...  It's basically a season long tryout for more than half the roster.

 

unfortunately, RK seems unwilling to give players we need to find out about for the long-term, like Mitts and R2 a real opportunity.  He rather play Sheahan, Lazar and Rieder.

[erickompositör72]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

If Hall re-signs we're screwed; it will be a long term contract on an old and hurt winger. If it's not I'll throw a parade.

It's just the opposite of watching the Bills, who had a plan and slowly but surely made smart moves, smart draft picks, and changed a culture. This all just looks like a jumbled, uncoordinated mess with no clear theme or plan. 

Am I incorrect about you being similarly doom & gloom about the Bills a season or two ago? If so, I hope your judgment of the Sabres is consistent with that 😛

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

The lineup is certainly improved.   Goaltending is still a question mark.

Unfortunately, they're in the toughest division and will probably be out of playoff contention in as soon as 2-3 weeks time.  

I look at this as a season of growth (playing top teams) and figuring out who will be part of the long term solution.  They have 12 players on expiring contracts, only 2 D under contract after this season...  It's basically a season long tryout for more than half the roster.

 

So just like last year when half the team was unsigned going into the off-season.

Or what about when Botterill first got here and proceeded to have a season long tryout before doing anything?

If Krueger gets fired and they bring in a new coach will there be another tryout next year?

Tryouts should be what happened before you make a roster. 

[Radar]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

unfortunately, RK seems unwilling to give players we need to find out about for the long-term, like Mitts and R2 a real opportunity.  He rather play Sheahan, Lazar and Rieder.

With the condensed schedule Mitts and co. will get playing time I think. Although I have doubts about Mitt's mentality to make it in this league. He's still very young so there's hope.

[pi2000]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

unfortunately, RK seems unwilling to give players we need to find out about for the long-term, like Mitts and R2 a real opportunity.  He rather play Sheahan, Lazar and Rieder.

What do you mean by "real opportunity"?   I'm sure at some point during the season, they'll get a look.

 

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

So just like last year when half the team was unsigned going into the off-season.

Or what about when Botterill first got here and proceeded to have a season long tryout before doing anything?

If Krueger gets fired and they bring in a new coach will there be another tryout next year?

Tryouts should be what happened before you make a roster. 

Good point.    Yes it's frustrating, but until they get it right, I expect this trend to continue.    It's certainly a better option than signing unknown quantities to multi-year deals and being hamstrung for multiple seasons at a time.

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am starting to doubt RK's system already if Skinner is so woefully unable to execute it, he has been demoted to line 4 and Ruotsalainen has been kicked off the team. If you need Lazar, Rieder, Eakin, and Sheahan to make your bottom 6 work... well ***** us. 

You seem to be more upset about R2 than the situation warrants.

He was always a longshot to make the team this year, he didn't do anything special in camp, and if he shines in Rochester he'll be back up.

 

9 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

The lineup is certainly improved.   Goaltending is still a question mark.

Unfortunately, they're in the toughest division and will probably be out of playoff contention in as soon as 2-3 weeks time.  

I look at this as a season of growth (playing top teams) and figuring out who will be part of the long term solution.  They have 12 players on expiring contracts, only 2 D under contract after this season...  It's basically a season long tryout for more than half the roster.

 

There is a ton of truth in this.

The Sabres have basically made a ton of short-term bets while keeping their options open for next year.

Personally, I think it was a smart call given the nature of the season and the condition of the fanbase, but if we don't take a real step forward, there is a huge possibility that next year will be a step back.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, pi2000 said:

What do you mean by "real opportunity"?   I'm sure at some point during the season, they'll get a look.

 

Good point.    Yes it's frustrating, but until they get it right, I expect this trend to continue.    It's certainly a better option than signing unknown quantities to multi-year deals and being hamstrung for multiple seasons at a time.

I don't mean a look see here and there.  I'm mean the starting jobs over Lazar and Sheahan specifically.  What is better for the team long-term?  Skinner Lazar Sheahan or Skinner Mitts Cozens?  My guess is the second version is also better this season.  Those guys at least have the skill to get something out of Skinner and Cozens is already a 200ft players and Mitts made great strides in the A in becoming a decent 200 ft player.  

[Derrico]

25 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Haha I hey I'm just saying what I think with these guys, and they inspire nothing. I guess we'll see, and I hope I'm wrong, but Krueger and Adams just seem way in over their head, and if they manage to squeak out a wild card it's on the backs of two guys they didn't even draft, and another that's leaving after this season. 

If they make the playoffs it will hardly be squeaking anything out in this division.  It will have been a hell of a job done by all if they get in.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't mean a look see here and there.  I'm mean the starting jobs over Lazar and Sheahan specifically.  What is better for the team long-term?  Skinner Lazar Sheahan or Skinner Mitts Cozens?  My guess is the second version is also better this season.  Those guys at least have the skill to get something out of Skinner and Cozens is already a 200ft players and Mitts made great strides in the A in becoming a decent 200 ft player.  

I think what the franchise needs most long-term is to win this year, energize the existing core and create a good situation for the Cozens and the Quinns to walk into.

That doesn't preclude your scenario, but only if you see enough from the kids right away. This season is not about learning on the job.

Edited January 13, 2021 by dudacek

[Curt]

11 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If Hall re-signs we're screwed; it will be a long term contract on an old and hurt winger. If it's not I'll throw a parade.

It's just the opposite of watching the Bills, who had a plan and slowly but surely made smart moves, smart draft picks, and changed a culture. This all just looks like a jumbled, uncoordinated mess with no clear theme or plan. 

I don’t care about the Bills at all.  This means nothing to me.

Yeah, sure, it depends on the contract for Hall.  It always does.

I just don’t understand the massive amount of negativity regarding this season which hasn’t even started.

 

[erickompositör72]

This is an oversimplification, but generally, a weak bottom 6 and/or goaltending are generally exposed in the playoffs. Teams with a strong top 6 & defense corps (like the Sabres) generally make the playoffs. The variable here may be the strength of our division, as others keep mentioning. 

[WildCard]

3 minutes ago, Derrico said:

If they make the playoffs it will hardly be squeaking anything out in this division.  It will have been a hell of a job done by all if they get in.

True, I did forget about the new format this year.

1 minute ago, Curt said:

I don’t care about the Bills at all.  This means nothing to me.

Yeah, sure, it depends on the contract for Hall.  It always does.

I just don’t understand the massive amount of negativity regarding this season which hasn’t even started.

 

Whether they mean nothing to you or not, it's just an example of how to turn a franchise around, implemented by the same ownership group that controls the Sabres.

Hardly a massive amount of negativity, I already said I'll root for them and enjoy the season. They're just uninspiring and I have no faith in them. What have they done in the last decade, last year, or last months, to change that feeling?

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't mean a look see here and there.  I'm mean the starting jobs over Lazar and Sheahan specifically.  What is better for the team long-term?  Skinner Lazar Sheahan or Skinner Mitts Cozens?  My guess is the second version is also better this season.  Those guys at least have the skill to get something out of Skinner and Cozens is already a 200ft players and Mitts made great strides in the A in becoming a decent 200 ft player.  

I think the ideal for me is somewhere in between.  Skinner-Sheahan-Cozens maybe?  It’s nice that people said nice things about Mitt’s half season in the A, but I will not trust him to be the defensive conscience of a line until I see it in the NHL for an extended period.  Lots of players are good in the AHL then come up and suck.

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

True, I did forget about the new format this year.

Whether they mean nothing to you or not, it's just an example of how to turn a franchise around, implemented by the same ownership group that controls the Sabres.

Hardly a massive amount of negativity, I already said I'll root for them and enjoy the season. They're just uninspiring and I have no faith in them. What have they done in the last decade, last year, or last months, to change that feeling?

Dumpster fire is what?  A medium amount of negativity?  Lol

[aristocrat]

i'm hoping cozens shows enough quickly and he can center a line with skinner on the wing.  skinner on the fourth line just doesn't give me a good feeling. love the top six.  or if victor can move over to right wing.  

[freester]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

unfortunately, RK seems unwilling to give players we need to find out about for the long-term, like Mitts and R2 a real opportunity.  He rather play Sheahan, Lazar and Rieder.

Well GAIU,  I'm sensing a bit of negativity.  Unfortunately, Mitts,  R2, Quinn and Cozens all need more time to develop.  They could all use a full year in Rochester.  Botteril rushed Mitts to the Sabres way before he was ready and the consequences were dire.  Losing Kahun was a critical error by KA and not improving the goaltending.  I am optimistic we will be improved but RK must figure out a way to get some production out of Skinner.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

These are...not good B6 lines. Apparently Lazar is good to go for tomorrow and KO is a maybe, so I guess KO would go in for Cozens or Asplund. I'm assuming Asplund. 

That is not a good set up for Skinner or Cozens, IMO. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, Derrico said:

If they make the playoffs it will hardly be squeaking anything out in this division.  It will have been a hell of a job done by all if they get in.

This division is stacked and whoever makes it likely to have suppressed overall points compared to some of the league standings leaders, but is going to be battle-proven. If the Sabres make the playoffs (totally a longshot, sure, but a two-line team has a better chance than a one-line team), they won't be a pushover.

16 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If Hall re-signs we're screwed; it will be a long term contract on an old and hurt winger. If it's not I'll throw a parade.

It's just the opposite of watching the Bills, who had a plan and slowly but surely made smart moves, smart draft picks, and changed a culture. This all just looks like a jumbled, uncoordinated mess with no clear theme or plan. 

If Hall re-signs we need a re-bounded cap ASAP (which the league isn't doing) or he's got to settle for way less.

For the Bills it's apples/oranges. The Bills have had the same GM/coach combo for over 3 years now, which the Sabres haven't done in quite some time. It's a lot quicker to turnaround an NFL roster where the cap hits can be pushed out, the draft is entirely of 21+ year-olds who are essentially ready to compete for the roster, and the guaranteed money doesn't float around with the player forever.

[WildCard]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think the ideal for me is somewhere in between.  Skinner-Sheahan-Cozens maybe?  It’s nice that people said nice things about Mitt’s half season in the A, but I will not trust him to be the defensive conscience of a line until I see it in the NHL for an extended period.  Lots of players are good in the AHL then come up and suck.

Dumpster fire is what?  A medium amount of negativity?  Lol

Lol fair enough. Long term outlook, dumpster fire. This season, maybe we can be fun. 

[DarthEbriate]

31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why should I believe in this team? Why? 

That (not believing in The Concept Of) is why you fail.  🍺
....The Concept of the Sabres surrounds us, and binds us....