Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

To be honest,  Lazar or Sheahan center the third line with other centering Skinner and Cozens and having Eakin as the extra  makes the team better 

I think Eakin potentially bring more offense then either Lazar or Sheahan.  I’d like to see Skinner Eakin Cozens and Rieder Sheahan Okposo, but RK is married to Eakin/Okposo pair.

[dudacek]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That certainly makes me feel better if Cozens remains in the starting 12, but why not go all the way and let Mitts center that line? What does Sheahan bring besides a big body? What if Cozens is the placeholder for Lazar?

I think this has been well-explored. Mitts has been as bad as Skinner in his own zone and Cozens has never played an NHL game. Sheahan (or Lazar) brings a defensive conscience and a predictable guy who plays on "the right side of the puck"  and can allow Skinner to freelance. Ralph has made it clear he wants lines that he doesn't want to have to hide match-up wise.

Not arguing with your point, just answering your question.

10 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

To be honest,  Lazar or Sheahan center the third line with other centering Skinner and Cozens and having Eakin as the extra  makes the team better 

Is this based entirely on Eakin's play last year, or have you not liked what you've seen in camp?

[jsb]

I have to admit I'm amused with all the haggling with the lines in here. We are going to play 10 games in eighteen days of January with 3 sets of back to backs. I think we're not going to see your typical lineups set in stone like before but we are going to see a steady stream of guys moving in and out of the lineup not just because of matchups but to make sure most of the lineup is fresh on a game by game basis. IMO anyway and that includes guys in Rochester. Plus that doesn't include guys who are banged up and need an off day when there isn't one available. Put a cup on those hurt pee pees of yours, the season hasn't started yet.

[tom webster]

35 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That certainly makes me feel better if Cozens remains in the starting 12, but why not go all the way and let Mitts center that line? What does Sheahan bring besides a big body? What if Cozens is the placeholder for Lazar?

Considering Cozens is playing second PP, I can guarantee you he is not a placeholder 

[Brawndo]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think Eakin potentially bring more offense then either Lazar or Sheahan.  I’d like to see Skinner Eakin Cozens and Rieder Sheahan Okposo, but RK is married to Eakin/Okposo pair.

If you are getting the 2018-19 Version of Cody Eakin, which their is strong indication that it was linemate dependent,  I would agree. If you are getting the 2017-18 or 2019-20 Version of Eakin probably not. 
The Offensive metrics Lazar and Sheahan are close enough in those two seasons to warrant playing them over Eakin because they are much better at defense.

Eakin is the ultimate eye test versus metrics player.  He skates fast and looks like he is hustling without much accomplishment. 

[Brawndo]

Here are the Power Plays that Tom mentioned 

 

 

[Brawndo]

And Both Lance Lysowski and John Vogl have remarked how good Jack Quinn has looked at practice today.

[JohnC]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He might state that it is "more than adequate" but that IMHO is Marty acknowledging that 1- Hutton is a good team guy that people like so he's not going tho throw him under the bus and 2- he's all the Sabres have at backup so he's not going to throw him under the bus.

At best, Hutton is adequate.  At worst, Hutton is a late season losing streak inducing anchor as he forces Krueger to overplay Ullmark all year thus wearing down leading to said losing streak.  Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

Had hoped Hutton could regain his early season form of each of the last 2 years (because with the addition of taxi squads adding another goalie is a reach at this point), but after watching that 2nd scrimmage am not encouraged at all.  Only 1 goal was a bad goal, but he was facing the Sabres 2nd line.  He can not play against Boston nor the Caps at all and really don't want to see him against Filly nor the Pens either.  Anybody feeling confident watching him against Barzal or Panarin?  He won't play 8 against Joisey.  All that's a long wi ded way of saying, expecting Linus to carry an unsustainable work load.

Marty Biron has repeatedly stated that the most important reason why the Sabres struggled last year was due to its inability to score. I'm hoping that with the addition of Hall and Staal and with Skinner returning to form or near form that will resolve that major deficiency. 

Hutton is a backup and nothing beyond that. If he is adequate then he is a sufficient backup. It was reported last year that the struggling netminder had eye issues. Was that the primary reason why he struggled? I don't know. As I stated before the bigger issue is whether Ullmark can be a consistent #1 caliber backstop. I think he can but again can't say with much confidence. For me the play of Ullmark is the biggest factor determining success or failure for this team. As I said before if Hutton falters a serviceable replacement can be made in season. If Ullmark falters it will be more difficult to find an acceptable replacement. My recommendation to you is to put more attention on Ullmark and less on Hutton. If you do that it will save you a lot of stomach agitation.

[Brawndo]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think this has been well-explored. Mitts has been as bad as Skinner in his own zone and Cozens has never played an NHL game. Sheahan (or Lazar) brings a defensive conscience and a predictable guy who plays on "the right side of the puck"  and can allow Skinner to freelance. Ralph has made it clear he wants lines that he doesn't want to have to hide match-up wise.

Not arguing with your point, just answering your question 

Is this based entirely on Eakin's play last year, or have you not liked what you've seen in camp?

See below 

8 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

If you are getting the 2018-19 Version of Cody Eakin, which their is strong indication that it was linemate dependent,  I would agree. If you are getting the 2017-18 or 2019-20 Version of Eakin probably not. 
The Offensive metrics Lazar and Sheahan are close enough in those two seasons to warrant playing them over Eakin because they are much better at defense.

Eakin is the ultimate eye test versus metrics player.  He skates fast and looks like he is hustling without much accomplishment. 

 

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here are the Power Plays that Tom mentioned 

 

 

Power play #1 is dynamite. 

Dynamite Explosions compilation 2016 - Bing video

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

And Both Lance Lysowski and John Vogl have remarked how good Jack Quinn has looked at practice today.

I am amazed at how the Jack Quinn of the scrimmage looked so much more like the Jack Quinn I watched in Ottawa than the Jack Quinn I saw at the WJC.

It appears his defence-first mentality at the tourney was very much by coaching design and masked the offensive part of of his game.

[Eleven]

I don't know that I like 4F, 1D on both PP units but maybe I'm just being old fashioned.  Something about Daniel Alfredsson, though...

[Derrico]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Yep. Congratulations to Borgen, Mittelstadt, Asplund and anyone else who made the cut

 

It looks like this is our team this year (from what Ralph said, it doesn't look like it will matter which of the spares are technically on the taxi squad):

Hall Eichel XXX

XXX Staal Reinhart

YYY Eakin Okposo

XXX YYY YYY

Dahlin Montour

McCabe Risto

Miller Jokiharju

Ullmark

Hutton

 

XXX: Skinner, Thompson, Olofsson (Cozens, Mittelstadt, Quinn)

YYY: Reider, Lazar, Sheahan, Asplund, Cozens, Mittelstadt, (Quinn), Girgensons

ZZZ: Irwin, Borgen, Davidson, Johansson

 

Here's to hoping that Kevyn acquired the right pieces and Ralph makes the right choices.

 

I was really hoping for Borgen, glad he made the cut.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I am amazed at how the Jack Quinn of the scrimmage looked so much more like the Jack Quinn I watched in Ottawa than the Jack Quinn I saw at the WJC.

It appears his defence-first mentality at the tourney was very much by coaching design and masked the offensive part of of his game.

With Krueger he will have to get back to the defense first mentality in order to stay up with the big club. 

When the AHL starts playing games it would best for him to play in Rochester and get a lot of playing time. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Marty Biron has repeatedly stated that the most important reason why the Sabres struggled last year was due to its inability to score. I'm hoping that with the addition of Hall and Staal and with Skinner returning to form or near form that will resolve that major deficiency. 

Hutton is a backup and nothing beyond that. If he is adequate then he is a sufficient backup. It was reported last year that the struggling netminder had eye issues. Was that the primary reason why he struggled? I don't know. As I stated before the bigger issue is whether Ullmark can be a consistent #1 caliber backstop. I think he can but again can't say with much confidence. For me the play of Ullmark is the biggest factor determining success or failure for this team. As I said before if Hutton falters a serviceable replacement can be made in season. If Ullmark falters it will be more difficult to find an acceptable replacement. My recommendation to you is to put more attention on Ullmark and less on Hutton. If you do that it will save you a lot of stomach agitation.

Obviously the play of the starter is more important than the play of the backup.  However, Ullmark has provided indications he will be ready to fill his role.  Hutton, not nearly so much.  It is more likely he is Bob Essensa than Marty Biron.  The Sabres don't have a large enough margin of error to have Essensa taking every 4th game.

To the bolded, don't agree it'll be easier to pry a goalie away from somebody mid-season than it is now.  That might come to fruition if a really bad team has a good goalie on a ST contract or a really bad team decides to tank; but the pool of teams willing to move a goalie mid-season seems to be a smaller pool than would do so presently.  (The taxi squad could be altering that calculus to move towards your view, but not there yet myself.)

[dudacek]

Did not see this Krueger quote to Hoppe about Skinner elsewhere:

“It’ll be important for Jeff to just keep working hard,” Krueger said. “And again, our principles need to be the guideline, but within that framework every player has the opportunity to let his genius express itself. For Jeff, that’s usually in the danger zone in front of the other team’s net. So his linemates need to get him there, he needs to do the work to get himself there and the goals will follow. It’s always hard work before you get rewarded

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Obviously the play of the starter is more important than the play of the backup.  However, Ullmark has provided indications he will be ready to fill his role.  Hutton, not nearly so much.  It is more likely he is Bob Essensa than Marty Biron.  The Sabres don't have a large enough margin of error to have Essensa taking every 4th game.

To the bolded, don't agree it'll be easier to pry a goalie away from somebody mid-season than it is now.  That might come to fruition if a really bad team has a good goalie on a ST contract or a really bad team decides to tank; but the pool of teams willing to move a goalie mid-season seems to be a smaller pool than would do so presently.  (The taxi squad could be altering that calculus to move towards your view, but not there yet myself.)

I don't want to futilely go back and forth on the Hutton issue. Evidently the HC and organization believe for the immediate time Hutton is an acceptable backup. Did the organization have options to replace him? Probably so, but apparently weren't willing to give up assets to consummate a deal. I know I'm in the minority here but I'm not as bothered with Hutton as a backup as most others are. A bigger issue for me is Skinner returning to form and how he is used. We'll just have to see how this plays out. 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don't want to futilely go back and forth on the Hutton issue. Evidently the HC and organization believe for the immediate time Hutton is an acceptable backup. Did the organization have options to replace him? Probably so, but apparently weren't willing to give up assets to consummate a deal. I know I'm in the minority here but I'm not as bothered with Hutton as a backup as most others are. A bigger issue for me is Skinner returning to form and how he is used. We'll just have to see how this plays out. 

Until the Saturday night scrimmage, my expectation for Hutton was that he'd be good enough in January & February and they'd be able to upgrade him at the trade deadline.  But that scrimmage showed he has a way to go to get back to being good enough.

So much so, that if a trade / waiver wire pick up doesn't happen today or tomorrow, my expectation of sneaking into the playoffs has changed & now expect them to just miss.

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

Does Jack need a new nickname?

I thought maybe more

43 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I don't know that I like 4F, 1D on both PP units but maybe I'm just being old fashioned.  Something about Daniel Alfredsson, though...

Ha - nice.

One of the great colour commentary calls in the moment by Lorentz on that one -- amidst all that excitement, noting both the role of the forward at the point and Emery yet again failing to move laterally.

[Brawndo]

 

[Brawndo]

Krueger confirmed that Jack Quinn will be on the active roster or the taxi squad

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

Krueger confirmed that Jack Quinn will be on the active roster or the taxi squad

Does anyone think we will actually see him play?

Krueger certainly wasn't expecting him to before he saw him play.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Is it wrong that I’m kind of happy about this? I think their absence will force RK out of his comfort zone and give others an opportunity.

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Does anyone think we will actually see him play?

Krueger certainly wasn't expecting him to before he saw him play.

Yes, I think we’ll see him for at least his try out period.  He hasn’t looked out of place in practice or the scrimmage.

[Brawndo]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Does anyone think we will actually see him play?

Krueger certainly wasn't expecting him to before he saw him play.

I think he stays with Buffalo until the the CHL AHL Loan Agreement is worked out for leagues that are not playing 

[dudacek]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is it wrong that I’m kind of happy about this? I think their absence will force RK out of his comfort zone and give others an opportunity.

Why are you so convinced guys like Casey, R2 and Cozens are ahead of guys like Okposo and Lazar and Ralph is willfully ignoring that?