Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[LTS]

16 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Another point regarding Skinner he has a full NMC/NTC and seven years remaining on His Current Deal. There is a very good chance Skinner outlasts Krueger’s Time in Buffalo behind the bench. 
 

Historically Skinner requires a good center to be productive, He had that in year one with Eichel and did not have that last season, His Goal Totals show the difference.  How soon before fans turn on him this season? 

The NMC is huge, but it was required to get him apparently. That said, the market will be different and a player who is not playing will waive that clause. He will still get paid, but he wants to play and someone who wants to pair him with the center they have to maximize his production will pay to get that "top ES scorer" that people keep touting.

15 hours ago, erickompositör72 said:

Skinner was lighting it up early last year playing with Johansson and Sobotka. I think there is a potential for a line to be constructed outside the top 2 where he succeeds.

I agree with this. A shortened camp and no preseason means that you have to make moves quickly.  Skinner didn't adapt as fast as he should and he's moved down. it doesn't mean he won't move back or that some other player won't suddenly make a 3rd line with good scoring potential a reality.

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One other thought on RK's statement that Skinner isn't playing the system.  That should have been kept in house.  He basically threw Skinner under the bus.  Nice!

He should have said we have 3 top 6 quality LWs and Hall and Olofsson have shown good chemistry with Jack and Eric so that's the direction we are going to start the year.  However if that camp chemistry doesn't carry over into the season we will reevaluate.  This way Skinner doesn't look like a chump and RK hasn't aired the dirty laundry in public.  He can still send the same message to Skinner in house and say if you want to get out of my dog house work on back checking and helping the D.  

You keep apologizing for Skinner.   Everything Krueger said indicated they had been communicating about things and the expectations. He's not throwing Skinner under the bus here. He's explaining, so people can understand why Skinner is sliding down the depth chart. That much was going to be obvious to anyone, so there has to be an explanation.  For me the explanation is pretty bland but it speaks volumes.  Bottom line, others are doing what is expected of them, Skinner is not.  I don't even think it's just his defensive play. Does he even look interested in the offensive zone?  

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

Yes and no. I just watched the presser where Krueger said that. He said they are working together on it.

Jeff has never come across as a primadona, to me, unwilling to change. I have never though that Skinner was the type of guy that would say, “I skate my way! Deal with it.” I just think nobody has ever tried.

Some people have a problem with the term narrative, but I think it applies here.

What Skinner will do is pure speculation.  I think we all want him to adapt and be the productive player he can be. Right now, he's not that.  

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I am glad that instead of icing the best team after missing the playoffs for a decade, this team is going to ice a team based on "well matchups are imporant and this guy here was okay on the pk somewhere else". 

Ruostalainen should have been on the roster and he should be Skinner's center if you aren't putting him with Staal. 

They commented on Ruotsalainen being fatigued.  Clearly it stood out enough that they commented on it. Is it true? I don't know. Is it some line of garbage meant to justify their move? I don't know.

I think there is an aspect of.. 56 games, every game counts and proven assets get the first nod.  The shuffling of players will likely be a very real thing with the condensed schedule. I think players, more than usual, will get their chances to show themselves in games.

[Taro T]

One interesting thing in this Skinner - Krueger saga is Krueger is getting pilloried for not making changes & also for moving Skinner from the 2nd line to a bottom 6 role.  So, basically Ralph is damned if he does & damned if he doesn't.   

IIRC, Krueger has said he expects to be changing up the bottom 6 pretty frequently.  Personally, don't hate Okposo being on a line w/ Skinner as he still knows what to do offensively, is good along the boards, & defensively responsible - he's just slow as molasses.  Still expect when all's said & done that the Sabres would be best served w/ Olofsson on the top line & Skinner on the 2nd; but IF Thompson can click on the top line, the new lines likely give the Sabres more offense in total as Skinner will likely produce more on a lower line than Thompson would.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Taro T

[erickompositör72]

25 minutes ago, Taro T said:

One interesting thing in this Skinner - Krueger saga is Krueger is getting pilloried for not making changes & also for moving Skinner from the 2nd line to a bottom 6 role.  So, basically Ralph is damned if he does & damned if he doesn't.   

IIRC, Krueger has said he expects to be changing up the bottom 6 pretty frequently.  Personally, don't hate Okposo being on a line w/ Skinner as he still knows what to do offensively, is good along the boards, & defensively responsible - he's just slow as molasses.  Still expect when all's said & done that the Sabres would be best served w/ Olofsson on the top line & Skinner on the 2nd; but IF Thompson can click on the top line, the new lines likely give the Sabres more offense in total as Skinner will likely produce more on a lower linevtgan Thompson would.

Exactly. Let's see how Skinner performs with favorable matchups. The top two lines may not need any more help.

[LGR4GM]

STOP EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frolik is on Waivers!!!!!!!!! WE CAN GET HIM BACK?

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

STOP EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frolik is on Waivers!!!!!!!!! WE CAN GET HIM BACK?

Yeah, but who wants him at league minimum?  $4MM/ is where it's at.  😉

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yeah, but who wants him at league minimum?  $4MM/ is where it's at.  😉

TRADE ALL THE DRAFT PICKS!!!! WE NEED HIM FOR THE PK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DarthEbriate]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

TRADE ALL THE DRAFT PICKS!!!! WE NEED HIM FOR THE PK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pair him with Rieder, trade for Bogosian. We'll never give up a power play goal again. We're getting the band back together.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

Pair him with Rieder, trade for Bogosian. We'll never give up a power play goal again. We're getting the band back together.

 

[tom webster]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

STOP EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frolik is on Waivers!!!!!!!!! WE CAN GET HIM BACK?

The minute I saw him on waivers I knew you’d be posting. At least we can laugh about it now. I always forget this JBOT disaster when I’m listing his mistakes in judgement.

[Brawndo]

If the Sabres want to Skinner to play on the 4th Line and want him to have success, they should put a waiver claim in on Derek Ryan. They played together in Carolina and had success. Ryan is also a better defensive center than anyone slotted for the Bottom Six currently. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Brawndo

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

Ralph is slowly slipping down the totem pole.  He says a lot of neat things and acts like a leader.  In the end, I don’t know if any of that translates to being a good hockey coach.  

I think the parallels between the Sabres and Bills will become apparent this year.  I felt much the same way about McDermott until.... really, this season.  Up until now it was a coach saying all the right things, "trust the system" and hoping the team would get there.  I think last year RFK laid a lot of groundwork.  We thought we were there with the early win streak but that obviously de-escalated quickly.  My prediction is that Skinner will continue to be the problem with this team until he isn't.  And I'm not taking sides between RFK and him.  I think Krueger is assembling his best team, best lines, etc., and at some point he will either move Skins onto a proper scoring line or Skins will emerge as a driving force behind his own scoring line.  I could see a third line situation with Cozens on his other wing suddenly turn into Vanek-Roy-Afenigenov and vault us into one of the top scoring teams (assuming the top two lines are already clicking).  Or some like Tage will get a chance in the top six and not produce and be replaced by Skinner who then explodes when he's got some talent to work with.

Having laid out my rosy hopes, I will acknowledge that that's all they are is hopes and that there's still a chance that RFK isn', in fact, a good hockey coach.

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

If the Sabres want to Skinner to play on the 4th Line and want him to have success, they should put a waiver claim in on Derek Ryan. They played together in Carolina and had success. Ryan is also a better defensive center than anyone slotted for the Bottom Six currently. 

They should also pick up Kylington to balance the defense but let's be honest... this team isn't that smart

[mjd1001]

I'm not worried with Skinner yet until he starts getting scratched, or gets less than 12 minute per night ice time.

3rd line? You can put together a 3rd line that you expect to produce points...it is simply one that gets less ice time than the top 2.  If your 3rd line is reserved for players that are valuable..but for whatever reason haven't 'earned' that extra couple minutes of ice time per game...so be it.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

[#freejame]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Down Goes Brown is among the best reads in hockey.

 

Have you read his History of the NHL? Must read if you like him.

[nfreeman]

20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So R2 made the taxi squad, yes?

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I must say I am a little surprised about Johansson staying up and not Tokarski.

But I guess playing time is irrelevant until the Amerks actually play and Ralph did say players can and will be streaming back and forth regardless of what 3rd of the roster they are listed on.

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So R2 made the taxi squad, yes?

I got the roster at 31 right now, not including Zemgus. Max they can have between roster and taxi is 29 so at least two more have to go.

I think R2, Samuelsson Oglevie and Davidson are the guys left in the Blue group that weren't sent down.

Asplund, Bryson, Borgen Mittelstadt, Quinn, Cozens still on the bubble as well?

Edited January 11, 2021 by dudacek

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I got the roster at 31 right now, not including Zemgus. Max they can have between roster and taxi is 29 so at least two more have to go.

I think R2, Samuelsson and Davidson are the guys left in the Blue group that weren't sent down.

Your count seems correct.  Expect 1 of those 3 will stay on the taxi squad, but maybe they do only go w/ 28 to try to bank some cash as by not replacing Girgensons on the 23 man roster has them at ~$2.1MM below the cap per Puckapedia. 

(They still have Girgensons listed on the active roster; could be Sabres are waiting to IR him until they know whether they can swing a deal for a goalie.  Right now BF-LTIR doesn't really buy them any cap relief as they are under the cap with him by a smidge over $2MM and nobody else in the system that isn't on the roster will cost more than that.  But, were they to bring in a ~$4MM goalie (like AZ has and pretty sure the BJ's as well) then putting Z on BF-LTIR allows them to squeeze that goalie into their cap regardless of whether Hutton stays or goes.  And still don't mind Hutton as the 3rd goalie.  It's having him at 2 that's problematic.)

[Curt]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

They should also pick up Kylington to balance the defense but let's be honest... this team isn't that smart

Is he actually any good?  Honest question.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Lindy Ruff was the last good coach this team had and sadly his stale message and the lack of talent got him in the end.  

I was hopeful on RK.  However last season his lack of flexibility, his moving Montour to the wrong side and the terrible PK all gave me pause.  Now his approach to the bottom six has added to my negative feeling.  

Still it’s a new season.  There is always hope.

 

I figured you'd say Ruff. Not that it's wrong, but it has been a decade of futility.

9 hours ago, I-90 W said:

RK is getting rolled on social media about this whole Skinner on the 4th line thing. It seems as if people are convinced it is set in stone or something.

So do we want a team where the inmates run the asylum? I will preface this by saying I have not seen the team play and I have no idea what it's based on in reality. If it's a personality thing and Krueger just doesn't like Skinner for some reason, then Krueger has to go (if it comes to that) but if it's based on Skinner not listening to the coach and not playing well then it's the opposite and idk Skinner has be benched and bought out or whatever is possible BUT you simply cannot have a team where the coach just gives in to players who do what they want are uncoachable. You do that, and it's infectious and you never win.

My feeling is that Skinner doesn't listen to coaches and just does what he wants as that was the rumour coming our of Carolina and they got better without him but that's just a guess. 

I said it earlier and I will repeat it, if Skinner doesn't play at least to a 2nd line winder level we are sunk. The bottom 6 is weak and ice time has to be heavy on the top 2 lines and if it's one top line chances are slim to none. 

[I-90 W]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I figured you'd say Ruff. Not that it's wrong, but it has been a decade of futility.

So do we want a team where the inmates run the asylum? I will preface this by saying I have not seen the team play and I have no idea what it's based on in reality. If it's a personality thing and Krueger just doesn't like Skinner for some reason, then Krueger has to go (if it comes to that) but if it's based on Skinner not listening to the coach and not playing well then it's the opposite and idk Skinner has be benched and bought out or whatever is possible BUT you simply cannot have a team where the coach just gives in to players who do what they want are uncoachable. You do that, and it's infectious and you never win.

My feeling is that Skinner doesn't listen to coaches and just does what he wants as that was the rumour coming our of Carolina and they got better without him but that's just a guess. 

I said it earlier and I will repeat it, if Skinner doesn't play at least to a 2nd line winder level we are sunk. The bottom 6 is weak and ice time has to be heavy on the top 2 lines and if it's one top line chances are slim to none. 

I’m not saying that I agree with the people criticizing RK, just pointing out that it’s happening. 

[Curt]

On the Skinner vs Krueger, battle for the soul of the organization.

Krueger is universally praised as a person.  His ability to managed situations, people, and organizations is highly decorated.  I have faith that if he says Skinner needs to do this/that, then that the truth.  He isn’t just being a stubborn jerk.  Skinner needs to do his best for the team, not the other way around.  There needs to be accountability.  That’s what a team is.  That’s good culture.

That being said, I’m not saying that Krueger is 100% right.  I have less faith in him as a hockey tactician than as a person. 

[Shootica]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Is he actually any good?  Honest question.

Smooth skating, undersized offensive defenseman.  Can struggle in his own end.

Lots of potential that hasn't really panned out thus far.  Many say that's on him, many say he hasn't been given a real shot in Calgary.

I think he's probably a suitable bottom pairing defenseman in an offensive role, and worth a claim for his potential to develop further.  He's be a no brainier claim if we were able to move out a RD in the off-season.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Shootica

[GASabresIUFAN]

50 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I figured you'd say Ruff. Not that it's wrong, but it has been a decade of futility.

So do we want a team where the inmates run the asylum? I will preface this by saying I have not seen the team play and I have no idea what it's based on in reality. If it's a personality thing and Krueger just doesn't like Skinner for some reason, then Krueger has to go (if it comes to that) but if it's based on Skinner not listening to the coach and not playing well then it's the opposite and idk Skinner has be benched and bought out or whatever is possible BUT you simply cannot have a team where the coach just gives in to players who do what they want are uncoachable. You do that, and it's infectious and you never win.

My feeling is that Skinner doesn't listen to coaches and just does what he wants as that was the rumour coming our of Carolina and they got better without him but that's just a guess. 

I said it earlier and I will repeat it, if Skinner doesn't play at least to a 2nd line winder level we are sunk. The bottom 6 is weak and ice time has to be heavy on the top 2 lines and if it's one top line chances are slim to none. 

This isn't the case of an inmate running the asylum.  What has Skinner said the media or on social media?  The only one who said Skinner wasn't playing the system was RK.  My defense of Skinner is simple.  I've said over and again that Skinner needs to buy in.  RK admits Jeff is working on doing what RK wants, however, as I've said before, great coaches work with what they got and adjust to their talent.  Lindy Ruff for example, but also Barry Trotz with Ovie, Backstrom and Kuznetsov.  RK's system reminds me of Trotz's.   From the quotes I hear Skinner is trying to do what the coach wants, but I also hear a coach unwilling to adjust to make the best out of this excellent 5 on 5 scorer.  Trotz proved in Wash that he can be flexible.  RK hasn't proven that and condemning his 2 or 3rd best even strength scorer to a 10 minute or less 4th line doesn't seem like flexibility.

I hope and pray that I'm wrong.  I hope RK's bottom six proves productive.  The Sabres have 10 games in the last 18 days of Jan.  We'll know pretty quickly if the RK plan is working.

Edited January 12, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN