2021 NHL Draft Rankings

[LGR4GM]

14 minutes ago, SwampD said:

 

Settle down. See what having an agenda leads to.

Your agenda seems pretty clear. 

[pi2000]

56 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

His forwards skating is good. His backwards skating needs work

IMO his backward skating his fine... it's his transitions that need work, and it's not hard to fix.    Not to make excused, but consider he grew 3" over the course of last season and of course his skating will suffer, specifically transitions.

That said, for him to do what he did at the Worlds... even took home a game MVP award... for a guy who needs work in a few areas  is pretty damn good.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, pi2000 said:

IMO his backward skating his fine... it's his transitions that need work, and it's not hard to fix.    Not to make excused, but consider he grew 3" over the course of last season and of course his skating will suffer, specifically transitions.

That said, for him to do what he did at the Worlds... even took home a game MVP award... for a guy who needs work in a few areas  is pretty damn good.

His worlds showing didn't impress me but highlighted the good and bad. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

His worlds showing didn't impress me but highlighted the good and bad. 

Not even in terms of establishing a high floor? I'm totally with you on being skeptical of his ceiling but his poise at this age I think bodes well for a long term career. 

I guess at 1 overall that's supposed to be a given, i suppose

Edited July 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

21 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I'm not arguing if I think it is important. I'm arguing that I people rank these things very differently, especially when it comes to defensmen and bigger skaters. They don't make lists and doodlebugs do. Remember, it was Skinner and Goodrow in the AS skills final. I wouldn't want either one playing D.

Ok.  That’s not really what you said before.  You seemed to be saying that the skills themselves were not important, not that defensemen are unfairly left off such lists.

Whats a doodlebug?  Is that one of the new hypoallergenic poodle hybrids?

[SwampD]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

Ok.  That’s not really what you said before.  You seemed to be saying that the skills themselves were not important, not that defensemen are unfairly left off such lists.

Whats a doodlebug?  Is that one of the new hypoallergenic poodle hybrids?

Gotcha. Just reread my post. I didn’t make myself clear. Sorry.

[LGR4GM]

37 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Not even in terms of establishing a high floor? I'm totally with you on being skeptical of his ceiling but his poise at this age I think bodes well for a long term career. 

I guess at 1 overall that's supposed to be a given, i suppose

I don't think his floor moved, no. 

The Worlds is really a B level tournament with a few NHL guys sure, but there's a bunch of random ppl in there as well. Short tournaments where you rarely play the same team twice are difficult because players and teams don't have a lot of time to adjust. 

I will say this, if Power playing against men at world's impressed you (not you specifically but in the general sense) than I don't understand how Eklund playing the entire year against men isn't also impressive. 

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Of course, and all these guys need work in multiple areas, but needing to be “coached up” in an area is a negative mark against a prospect.

No it isn’t but I specifically meant I want Liger to coach him

[Hoss]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

His worlds showing didn't impress me but highlighted the good and bad. 

Nothing he does impresses you. You had a little stretch where you were willing to compliment him but you’ve returned to seeking out all good things said about Owen Power and refuting them. Your dedication is admirable.

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think his floor moved, no. 

The Worlds is really a B level tournament with a few NHL guys sure, but there's a bunch of random ppl in there as well. Short tournaments where you rarely play the same team twice are difficult because players and teams don't have a lot of time to adjust. 

I will say this, if Power playing against men at world's impressed you (not you specifically but in the general sense) than I don't understand how Eklund playing the entire year against men isn't also impressive. 

Is the talent at Worlds comparable to the SHL? This is a legit question that I’d need to do some of my own research on but my initial impression is definitely yes.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Nothing he does impresses you. You had a little stretch where you were willing to compliment him but you’ve returned to seeking out all good things said about Owen Power and refuting them. Your dedication is admirable.

Is the talent at Worlds comparable to the SHL? This is a legit question that I’d need to do some of my own research on but my initial impression is definitely yes.

Maybe if Power didn't do so many things that give me pause I wouldn't. 

Let's take Brandt Clarke for example, he fixes his skating (which has improved) he can be a very good NHL defender. That's it, that's the only real issue he has other than natural maturity in his game. Power has his defensive positioning, his bad tendency to let players gain the zone unopposed, his inability to handle faster forwards who cut to the outside at times, his gap control issues, ability to be physically moved off pucks in his own end somehow at his size, his turning from backwards to forwards, and finally his zone exits/decisions are a little rough. 

I am forced to refute Power because ppl like you drop in and make him sound like the second coming of Hedman mixed with Lidstrom and that just isn't the case. We are talking Jones/Ekblad hopefully or smarter Ristolainen. You value that more than I do. 

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

No it isn’t but I specifically meant I want Liger to coach him

An area where a player needs improvement is a negative thing.  It has to be.  Are you saying that it’s not?

Every prospect has areas where they need to improve.  I’m not trying to write anyone off here.

[LGR4GM]

Power looks great when he has the puck and skates up ice or in the offensive zone. The concern is the rest of it. 

11 minutes ago, Hoss said:

No it isn’t but I specifically meant I want Liger to coach him

lol same old strawman argument I hear every year around the draft. I'll give you credit for packaging it slightly differently. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

An area where a player needs improvement is a negative thing.  It has to be.  Are you saying that it’s not?

Every prospect has areas where they need to improve.  I’m not trying to write anyone off here.

Sure, Eklund needs to work on his skating stride a bit and he can actually get more speed. Also he needs to work on his battles along the boards and getting more strength to be better at them. 

Beniers needs to work on his puck skills and his shot. 

Clarke needs to work on his skating. 

 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-button-list-owen-power-nhl-draft-1.1666944

Button’s latest list. Guenther has fallen to 9th, Svechkov has rocketed up to the top 10.

Craig's list is always interesting 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Ok.  I disagree with you.  Stickhandling, yes, not many D will be cracking that list, though it’s still an important thing for defensemen.  However, skating and hockey IQ are  extremely important qualities for a defenseman, and areas where they should be able to equal their forward counterparts.

I can’t see the list either.

Best skaters

1. Luke Hughes, LHD, U.S. NTDP-USHL
2. William Eklund, LW, Djurgarden-SHL
3. Justin Robidas, C, Val-d’Or-QMJHL
4. Jimi Suomi, LHD, Jokerit-Finland Jr.
5. Victor Sjoholm, RHD, HV71-Sweden Jr.
6. Colby Saganiuk, C, Erie-OHL
7. Miguel Tourigny, RHD, Blainville-Boisbriand-QMJHL
8. Carson Latimer, RW, Edmonton-WHL
9. Fabian Lysell, RW, Lulea-SHL
10. Dmitry Zugan, C, CSKA-Russia Jr.

Best puck skills

1. Kent Johnson, C, Michigan-Big Ten
2. Chaz Lucius, C, U.S. NTDP-USHL
3. Brandt Clarke, RHD, Barrie-OHL
4. Zachary L’Heureux, LW, Halifax-QMJHL
5. Sasha Pastujov, RW, U.S. NTDP-USHL
6. Logan Stankoven, C, Kamloops-WHL
7. Conner Roulette, LW, Seattle-WHL
8. Stiven Sardarian, RW, CSKA-Russia Jr.
9. Nikita Chibrikov, RW, SKA-VHL
10. William Eklund, LW, Djurgarden-SHL

Best hockey sense

1. William Eklund, LW, Djurgarden-SHL
2. Nikita Chibrikov, RW, SKA-VHL
3. Sean Behrens, LHD, U.S. NTDP-USHL
4. Owen Power, LHD, Michigan-Big Ten
5. Ryder Korczak, C, Moose Jaw-WHL
6. Olen Zellweger, LHD, Everett-WHL
7. Ryan Ufko, RHD, Chicago-USHL
8. Jack Peart, LHD, Fargo-USHL
9. Miguel Tourigny, RHD, Blainville-Broisbriand-QMJHL
10. Liam Dower Nilsson, C, Frolunda-Sweden Jr.

Best compete level

1. Matthew Beniers, C, Michigan-Big Ten
2. Alexander Kisakov, LW, Dynamo Moscow, Russia Jr.
3. Tyler Boucher, RW, U.S. NTDP-USHL

Corey Pronman, https://theathletic.com/2688396/2021/07/12/best-skaters-top-puck-skills-corey-pronman-ranks-the-nhl-draft-eligibles-by-skill/, The Athletic, 2021

[Digger]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Craig's list is always interesting 

Interesting yes but usually way off on how the draft actually goes.  This year will be tough for most to call or predict (even at the top).  Should be fun.

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Best skaters

1. Luke Hughes, LHD, U.S. NTDP-USHL
2. William Eklund, LW, Djurgarden-SHL
3. Justin Robidas, C, Val-d’Or-QMJHL
4. Jimi Suomi, LHD, Jokerit-Finland Jr.
5. Victor Sjoholm, RHD, HV71-Sweden Jr.
6. Colby Saganiuk, C, Erie-OHL
7. Miguel Tourigny, RHD, Blainville-Boisbriand-QMJHL
8. Carson Latimer, RW, Edmonton-WHL
9. Fabian Lysell, RW, Lulea-SHL
10. Dmitry Zugan, C, CSKA-Russia Jr.

Best puck skills

1. Kent Johnson, C, Michigan-Big Ten
2. Chaz Lucius, C, U.S. NTDP-USHL
3. Brandt Clarke, RHD, Barrie-OHL
4. Zachary L’Heureux, LW, Halifax-QMJHL
5. Sasha Pastujov, RW, U.S. NTDP-USHL
6. Logan Stankoven, C, Kamloops-WHL
7. Conner Roulette, LW, Seattle-WHL
8. Stiven Sardarian, RW, CSKA-Russia Jr.
9. Nikita Chibrikov, RW, SKA-VHL
10. William Eklund, LW, Djurgarden-SHL

Best hockey sense

1. William Eklund, LW, Djurgarden-SHL
2. Nikita Chibrikov, RW, SKA-VHL
3. Sean Behrens, LHD, U.S. NTDP-USHL
4. Owen Power, LHD, Michigan-Big Ten
5. Ryder Korczak, C, Moose Jaw-WHL
6. Olen Zellweger, LHD, Everett-WHL
7. Ryan Ufko, RHD, Chicago-USHL
8. Jack Peart, LHD, Fargo-USHL
9. Miguel Tourigny, RHD, Blainville-Broisbriand-QMJHL
10. Liam Dower Nilsson, C, Frolunda-Sweden Jr.

Best compete level

1. Matthew Beniers, C, Michigan-Big Ten
2. Alexander Kisakov, LW, Dynamo Moscow, Russia Jr.
3. Tyler Boucher, RW, U.S. NTDP-USHL

Corey Pronman, https://theathletic.com/2688396/2021/07/12/best-skaters-top-puck-skills-corey-pronman-ranks-the-nhl-draft-eligibles-by-skill/, The Athletic, 2021

Do shot and passing fall under any of these categories, for Pronman?

[Flashsabre]

50 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Maybe if Power didn't do so many things that give me pause I wouldn't. 

Let's take Brandt Clarke for example, he fixes his skating (which has improved) he can be a very good NHL defender. That's it, that's the only real issue he has other than natural maturity in his game. Power has his defensive positioning, his bad tendency to let players gain the zone unopposed, his inability to handle faster forwards who cut to the outside at times, his gap control issues, ability to be physically moved off pucks in his own end somehow at his size, his turning from backwards to forwards, and finally his zone exits/decisions are a little rough. 

I am forced to refute Power because ppl like you drop in and make him sound like the second coming of Hedman mixed with Lidstrom and that just isn't the case. We are talking Jones/Ekblad hopefully or smarter Ristolainen. You value that more than I do. 

Uh, Clarke’s defensive play and physicality are major areas he needs to work on.

[Hoss]

57 minutes ago, Curt said:

An area where a player needs improvement is a negative thing.  It has to be.  Are you saying that it’s not?

Every prospect has areas where they need to improve.  I’m not trying to write anyone off here.

No, they’re prospects. You know every prospect has to work on their game. It’s only a negative if it’s a significant deficiency in their game.

[Hoss]

59 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Maybe if Power didn't do so many things that give me pause I wouldn't. 

Let's take Brandt Clarke for example, he fixes his skating (which has improved) he can be a very good NHL defender. That's it, that's the only real issue he has other than natural maturity in his game. Power has his defensive positioning, his bad tendency to let players gain the zone unopposed, his inability to handle faster forwards who cut to the outside at times, his gap control issues, ability to be physically moved off pucks in his own end somehow at his size, his turning from backwards to forwards, and finally his zone exits/decisions are a little rough. 

I am forced to refute Power because ppl like you drop in and make him sound like the second coming of Hedman mixed with Lidstrom and that just isn't the case. We are talking Jones/Ekblad hopefully or smarter Ristolainen. You value that more than I do. 

Nobody actually talks about Power that way, you’re just so sure about your feelings against him that anything in favor of him seems like unreasonable praise. He’s a very good prospect. Just like other prospects he’s got plenty to work on.

The way you talk about a lot of prospects is excessive. You say all Brandt Clarke needs to work on is his skating. If that were true he’d be locked in as number one. Then you get into a long list of hyper specific criticisms of Power’s game.

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

No, they’re prospects. You know every prospect has to work on their game. It’s only a negative if it’s a significant deficiency in their game.

I guess that’s kind of what we are talking about  here.  Every prospect needs to get better at almost everything.  It’s the more glaring things that we generally highlight.

[Hoss]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

I guess that’s kind of what we are talking about  here.  Every prospect needs to get better at almost everything.  It’s the more glaring things that we generally highlight.

Right, I think it’s semantics as to whether you view it as a negative or just something that needs to be worked on.

[LGR4GM]

30 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Nobody actually talks about Power that way, you’re just so sure about your feelings against him that anything in favor of him seems like unreasonable praise. He’s a very good prospect. Just like other prospects he’s got plenty to work on.

The way you talk about a lot of prospects is excessive. You say all Brandt Clarke needs to work on is his skating. If that were true he’d be locked in as number one. Then you get into a long list of hyper specific criticisms of Power’s game.

Nobody? I mean, that's just not accurate. 

I talk about Power in detail because you and a vocal group of others have anointed him the second coming of Hedman. We can talk about Clarke more, his skating is a major issue that he will have to correct. It prevents him from being able to recover always when he over-pursues the puck especially on defense. His positioning by all accounts got better this year playing in the pro league but his defensive zone work still needs to get refined and it is unclear if that is partially a product of his skating.  His offensive zone skills are better than Power, he reads the play faster and has more quick cuts and moves to open up lanes. He can be over-aggressive at times in the offensive zone as well and again because of skating it can lead to him being caught up ice. 

I am hyper specific about Power because there is a good chance we will draft him. Just like I am hyper specific about Eklund and Beniers. I am one person and can only do so much research so some guys get way more in depth looks than others. There's a bunch of guys in the teens that get less attention than guys that I think will be there at 32 because that's where we get to pick again. We should be analyzing Power, Eklund, Beniers in detail. 

 

 

 

[LGR4GM]

I'll leave everyone with this thought. If there were more positive things to say about Power, why wouldn't I be saying them and why wouldn't his proponents be using them against me more?

Power is a good player, he's just not the best player in this draft. 

[Hoss]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Nobody? I mean, that's just not accurate. 

I talk about Power in detail because you and a vocal group of others have anointed him the second coming of Hedman. We can talk about Clarke more, his skating is a major issue that he will have to correct. It prevents him from being able to recover always when he over-pursues the puck especially on defense. His positioning by all accounts got better this year playing in the pro league but his defensive zone work still needs to get refined and it is unclear if that is partially a product of his skating.  His offensive zone skills are better than Power, he reads the play faster and has more quick cuts and moves to open up lanes. He can be over-aggressive at times in the offensive zone as well and again because of skating it can lead to him being caught up ice. 

I am hyper specific about Power because there is a good chance we will draft him. Just like I am hyper specific about Eklund and Beniers. I am one person and can only do so much research so some guys get way more in depth looks than others. There's a bunch of guys in the teens that get less attention than guys that I think will be there at 32 because that's where we get to pick again. We should be analyzing Power, Eklund, Beniers in detail. 

 

 

 

I have repeatedly said Hedman is an unrealistic and unlikely ceiling for Power. I didn’t read beyond that because I’m not wasting my time anymore.