2021 NHL Draft Rankings

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

One would hope but then again they drafted Quinn last year to the shock of many. 

Quinn is skilled, plays hard and does anything his coaches ask of him. He absolutely fits the profile.

I get why some are upset about the Quinn pick. I'm continually surprised at the misperceptions about what kind of player he is.

We can only hope he ever gets close to that level, but his game style is very Mark Stone.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I know but like many I felt there were better players available at the time. Yet do give him credit for doing okay in Rochester last year. He might be better than give him credit for. 

I just hope Quinn comes back from injury ready to go and really lights of the AHL. 

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Quinn is skilled, plays hard and does anything his coaches ask of him. He absolutely fits the profile.

I get why some are upset about the Quinn pick. I'm continually surprised at the misperceptions about what kind of player he is.

We can only hope he ever gets close to that level, but his game style is very Mark Stone.

I just hope he brings enough that Rossi and Jarvis and Lundell don't really sour Sabres' fans on him forever. 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Quinn is skilled, plays hard and does anything his coaches ask of him. He absolutely fits the profile.

I get why some are upset about the Quinn pick. I'm continually surprised at the misperceptions about what kind of player he is.

We can only hope he ever gets close to that level, but his game style is very Mark Stone.

It's just the question the true Quinn the kid who scored 12 goals or 52 goals? If he lands in between I'm okay with it.

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I just hope Quinn comes back from injury ready to go and really lights of the AHL. 

I just hope he brings enough that Rossi and Jarvis and Lundell don't really sour Sabres' fans on him forever. 

I was hoping we took Cole Perfetti. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

It's just the question the true Quinn the kid who scored 12 goals or 52 goals? If he lands in between I'm okay with it.

I was hoping we took Cole Perfetti. 

Cole Perfetti is very skilled and may end up a better player than Quinn. But he's not hard skill, or fast skill.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I just hope Quinn comes back from injury ready to go and really lights of the AHL. 

I just hope he brings enough that Rossi and Jarvis and Lundell don't really sour Sabres' fans on him forever. 

Hope so, too.

He very likely will be a very good player.  But there were 2 guys that could very well be great players & that 3rd who will likely be very good at a role the Sabres don't really seem able to fill for the foreseeable future.

He has an excellent chance of being this generation's Ric Seiling.

[LGR4GM]

22 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

It's just the question the true Quinn the kid who scored 12 goals or 52 goals? If he lands in between I'm okay with it.

I was hoping we took Cole Perfetti. 

It's not 52 goals, I will say that. He had a very high shot % even for the OHL and regression is going to happen there. I think a 25g, 35a player is there who will play a full 200 foot game. 

Actually in the last 2 drafts they love adding 200ft guys... Cozens, Peterka, Quinn all play both ends of the ice and check in all directions. 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

It's not 52 goals, I will say that. He had a very high shot % even for the OHL and regression is going to happen there. I think a 25g, 35a player is there who will play a full 200 foot game. 

Actually in the last 2 drafts they love adding 200ft guys... Cozens, Peterka, Quinn all play both ends of the ice and check in all directions. 

Nothing wrong that kind of production in the NHL. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Nothing wrong that kind of production in the NHL. 

Nope, I just hope and I do mean hope, that he gets there. 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Nope, I just hope and I do mean hope, that he gets there. 

We all do, as only means good things for our future. This offseason is going to do a lot to determine this team's future. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

We all do, as only means good things for our future. This offseason is going to do a lot to determine this team's future. 

At the least Quinn could serve as a solid 2rw who locks down other teams while providing counter strike transition offense. 

[Flashsabre]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

At the least Quinn could serve as a solid 2rw who locks down other teams while providing counter strike transition offense. 

If only there was a two way transition playmaking centre that could fit like a glove with him available.😜

[WildCard]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

In defense of Jack Quinn, he has heart, compete, is faster (I think he isn't elite but is above average for sure), and has the willingness to battle in the hard areas. 

Sounds a lot like the players the Bills target

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

One would hope but then again they drafted Quinn last year to the shock of many. 

I don't consider the pick of Quinn as a shock. If you would have stated a surprise I could go along with that. If I recall correctly as the draft approached his draft status seemed to move up the ranks. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Something I find interesting and I think it is because he is so effective even at his weight is that Beniers never really gets the "will improve as he adds strength" tag that so many guys do. Power even gets the "as he fills out his frame" tagged onto him often. Beniers is only 174lbs and played in the NCAA (Johnson was even lighter) so there's about 20lbs of strength still to come for him. Just something to think about. 

That's a positional thing with Power. As a D man he has to be bigger to be truly effective at an NHL level. 

Your choices are potentially good players, there's little doubt, but Power will be dominant. Pieterangelo on Vegas and even Weber on Montreal should give you all the convincing you need. Take either away from their team and they're not playing in these playoffs at this point. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

He has an excellent chance of being this generation's Ric Seiling.

I would take that. I always liked him as a player. We could use that for sure. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's a positional thing with Power. As a D man he has to be bigger to be truly effective at an NHL level. 

Your choices are potentially good players, there's little doubt, but Power will be dominant. Pieterangelo on Vegas and even Weber on Montreal should give you all the convincing you need. Take either away from their team and they're not playing in these playoffs at this point. 

Yea Cale Makar sure does suck in the playoffs and at the NHL level because he's 5'11". 

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Yea Cale Makar sure does suck in the playoffs and at the NHL level because he's 5'11". 

Well he's not playing any more is he.......................

Seriously though, no he doesn't, but we already have Dahlin. Power will be able to log big minutes and solidify the defensive side of things. With the two of them on our D the entire back end will look much better in a few years, maybe right away. 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's a positional thing with Power. As a D man he has to be bigger to be truly effective at an NHL level. 

Your choices are potentially good players, there's little doubt, but Power will be dominant. Pieterangelo on Vegas and even Weber on Montreal should give you all the convincing you need. Take either away from their team and they're not playing in these playoffs at this point. 

First thing is first. You wouldn't say that all 5'11" defenders are Makar but you are basically saying that all 6'4" or bigger defenders are Weber or Pientrangelo... which just isn't the case. I see this A LOT in scouting where if a guy reaches a certain size (6'5") they are grouped with a bunch of other 6'5" guys regardless of how they play they game. Logan Stanley keeps coming to mind. Further Shea Weber has a whopping 3 points in the playoffs so if he's great how come this is as far as Montreal has gotten in years and how come he isn't producing anything? How come Vegas made a cup final a couple years ago without Pientrangelo?

These arguments don't ever make sense to me because the only logic is "big defender here good, means big defender here good." Montreal and Vegas don't convince me of anything other than you need a team with depth scoring and good goaltending to advance. Having tall defenders doesn't really matter and is the strangest thing ever. Quick reminder while I am here though.... Dahlin is 6'3", Samuelsson 6'4", Will Borgen is 6'3" so idk why none of them can give you 3 assists like Shea Weber and also lock down other teams top lines (which Weber isn't necessarily great at). 

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well he's not playing any more is he.......................

Seriously though, no he doesn't, but we already have Dahlin. Power will be able to log big minutes and solidify the defensive side of things. With the two of them on our D the entire back end will look much better in a few years, maybe right away. 

Sure but I can flip this and say "if we draft Eklund he will be able to log big minutes and solidify the offensive side of things. With him and Cozens at forward the entire front end will look much better in a few years". 

You shouldn't be drafting Power because he is big and you think he fills out your 2nd line LHD. If you want to draft Power first overall it is because he is the best player in the draft and the math says he isn't, the eyes tell me he isn't, the transition data tell me he isn't. Can I be wrong, yes. But if you want to argue drafting him first overall, make sure it is for the right reasons and not because "well Montreal has a big defender and is in the 3rd round!" 

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I would take that. I always liked him as a player. We could use that for sure. 

Was kind of referring to the whole package that came w/ Seiling.  He was a very good player (at least until he was almost blinded in 1 eye) but was never Bossy and a lot of fans never forgave HIM for having been the pick that could've been Bossy.  (Like he had any say in where/ when he was drafted.)

And, the Sabres could've done worse, but at least 1 of those other 3 players & possibly all 3 will likely end up better than Quinn & he'll likely be a whipping boy because of it when any ire should be directed towards Adams & not the player.

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

First thing is first. You wouldn't say that all 5'11" defenders are Makar but you are basically saying that all 6'4" or bigger defenders are Weber or Pientrangelo... which just isn't the case. I see this A LOT in scouting where if a guy reaches a certain size (6'5") they are grouped with a bunch of other 6'5" guys regardless of how they play they game. Logan Stanley keeps coming to mind. Further Shea Weber has a whopping 3 points in the playoffs so if he's great how come this is as far as Montreal has gotten in years and how come he isn't producing anything? How come Vegas made a cup final a couple years ago without Pientrangelo?

These arguments don't ever make sense to me because the only logic is "big defender here good, means big defender here good." Montreal and Vegas don't convince me of anything other than you need a team with depth scoring and good goaltending to advance. Having tall defenders doesn't really matter and is the strangest thing ever. Quick reminder while I am here though.... Dahlin is 6'3", Samuelsson 6'4", Will Borgen is 6'3" so idk why none of them can give you 3 assists like Shea Weber and also lock down other teams top lines (which Weber isn't necessarily great at). 

Sure but I can flip this and say "if we draft Eklund he will be able to log big minutes and solidify the offensive side of things. With him and Cozens at forward the entire front end will look much better in a few years". 

You shouldn't be drafting Power because he is big and you think he fills out your 2nd line LHD. If you want to draft Power first overall it is because he is the best player in the draft and the math says he isn't, the eyes tell me he isn't, the transition data tell me he isn't. Can I be wrong, yes. But if you want to argue drafting him first overall, make sure it is for the right reasons and not because "well Montreal has a big defender and is in the 3rd round!" 

Not to speak for Perreault, he can do that himself, but the argument isn't Power is big, it's that he can be a 25 minute top pairing shutdown guy who can also be effective as a 2 way guy though hie'll be much better in his own end than the other end like Weber or, to keep a Sabres perspective on it, Mike Ramsey.  (Not saying he necessarily can be that, nor that my preference is for Power, it isn't, am leaning towards Beniers.)

You seem to believe people like Power strictly for his size.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  And to have a legit defensive minded top pairing guy to go with what we still expect to become a legit top pairing offensive guy would give the Sabres something special.  IF he can become that, there's merit to selecting him.  Don't know if he can, but also don't study the prospects.

The Sabres have never had a TRUE #1 D-man (Ramsey & Schoeny were the closest on an extended basis, Zhitnik IMHO was a true #2 (like Seabrook, though he never had a Keith to work with), & Tallinder was a 1 at the end of '06 & into the playoffs (though never prior nor since).  There is something enticing about the possibility of having 2 of them or at minimum 2 #2's (something else they've never had at the same time as Ramsey was still developing while Schoeny was in his prime).

[LGR4GM]

39 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Not to speak for Perreault, he can do that himself, but the argument isn't Power is big, it's that he can be a 25 minute top pairing shutdown guy who can also be effective as a 2 way guy though hie'll be much better in his own end than the other end like Weber or, to keep a Sabres perspective on it, Mike Ramsey.  (Not saying he necessarily can be that, nor that my preference is for Power, it isn't, am leaning towards Beniers.)

You seem to believe people like Power strictly for his size.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  And to have a legit defensive minded top pairing guy to go with what we still expect to become a legit top pairing offensive guy would give the Sabres something special.  IF he can become that, there's merit to selecting him.  Don't know if he can, but also don't study the prospects.

The Sabres have never had a TRUE #1 D-man (Ramsey & Schoeny were the closest on an extended basis, Zhitnik IMHO was a true #2 (like Seabrook, though he never had a Keith to work with), & Tallinder was a 1 at the end of '06 & into the playoffs (though never prior nor since).  There is something enticing about the possibility of having 2 of them or at minimum 2 #2's (something else they've never had at the same time as Ramsey was still developing while Schoeny was in his prime).

My problem with this is I can draft that guy outside elsewhere. I think in many of the drafts in the past decade you can find a Power level guy in the 5-25 range fairly consistently but the high producers are far more elusive. 

The bolded is wrong. I think ppl over value Power because of his size relative to what his skill set actually is. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by LGR4GM

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

First thing is first. You wouldn't say that all 5'11" defenders are Makar but you are basically saying that all 6'4" or bigger defenders are Weber or Pientrangelo... which just isn't the case. I see this A LOT in scouting where if a guy reaches a certain size (6'5") they are grouped with a bunch of other 6'5" guys regardless of how they play they game. Logan Stanley keeps coming to mind. Further Shea Weber has a whopping 3 points in the playoffs so if he's great how come this is as far as Montreal has gotten in years and how come he isn't producing anything? How come Vegas made a cup final a couple years ago without Pientrangelo?

These arguments don't ever make sense to me because the only logic is "big defender here good, means big defender here good." Montreal and Vegas don't convince me of anything other than you need a team with depth scoring and good goaltending to advance. Having tall defenders doesn't really matter and is the strangest thing ever. Quick reminder while I am here though.... Dahlin is 6'3", Samuelsson 6'4", Will Borgen is 6'3" so idk why none of them can give you 3 assists like Shea Weber and also lock down other teams top lines (which Weber isn't necessarily great at). 

Sure but I can flip this and say "if we draft Eklund he will be able to log big minutes and solidify the offensive side of things. With him and Cozens at forward the entire front end will look much better in a few years". 

You shouldn't be drafting Power because he is big and you think he fills out your 2nd line LHD. If you want to draft Power first overall it is because he is the best player in the draft and the math says he isn't, the eyes tell me he isn't, the transition data tell me he isn't. Can I be wrong, yes. But if you want to argue drafting him first overall, make sure it is for the right reasons and not because "well Montreal has a big defender and is in the 3rd round!" 

Okay there's too much in here to keep things on topic if I address each point. So I'm just going to give a few main points. 

1. pretty much everything Taro said already. 

2. It's never JUST about size, but size definitely helps. 

3. You can always casually say look at the great goalie, but you will almost never see a great goalie advance without a solid D in front of him. (Hasek might have been the exception). You take a guy like Lehner. He still lacks in his rebound control but with a solid D in front of him he gains confidence, gets more aggressive, takes chances and thus looks phenomenal. If his D is weak, he gets conservative, he second guesses, tries to do too much, and he falls apart . To a lesser xtent this is true for almost every goalie out there, even Carey Price. 

4. Did you see 18 year old not filled out Power at the world's? Kid was consistent and one of Canada's best players on a gold medal team. Logged big minutes. What about that do you not think the Sabres desperately need?????????????????

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

4. Did you see 18 year old not filled out Power at the world's? Kid was consistent and one of Canada's best players on a gold medal team. Logged big minutes. What about that do you not think the Sabres desperately need?????????????????

I saw Beniers do more with less ice time in a B level tourney. 

The Sabres need everything accept left handed defenders. That's a bad argument. Even if you say he's BPA, why? 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

 

2. It's never JUST about size, but size definitely helps. 

Ok. How does it help Power?

Why did you specifically link a big defender with NHL playoff success? 

[LGR4GM]