2021 NHL Draft Rankings

[SDS]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Still waiting on any sort of breakdown, explanation, example of, or other evidence submitted by you to support why you think this. 

Interesting. 😉

[LGR4GM]

On 4/13/2021 at 3:06 PM, Buffalonill said:

 

I already did and you decided to ignore it .

-He's played against men

-projected 1st overall last year

-nhl ready 

- best defensive forward in the draft 

- highest calling 

- nonstop  motor

-fast

 

He's everything your Beniers is but better will put up 80 points 

 

Beniers will max out at 50 

Projected first overall last year, nhl ready, and highest calling (?) don't really do much for me. 

I think the best defensive forward in the draft is Beniers who played against some men in the NCAA and that shouldn't be dismissed. Beniers also has a non-stop motor and I think his awareness on how to deploy that motor trumps Raty's. Both are fast but I think Beniers has better edges and can use his speed better. Raty for me has a major red flag, his toolbox doesn't do a great job of deploying his tools. That can be worked on though. 

I think Benier may end up with less points but that would only be if Raty managed to put things together and I don't see that happening. Raty clocks in at .1515 primary points a game for Liiga and that puts him below Rasmus Kupari as a production comparable. Beniers clocks in at .7916 which puts him above the 5 draft eligible forwards I have and puts him just below Dylan Halloway for DY+1 forwards (last 3 years) for the NCAA. 

My biggest concern with Raty is that he seemed to really regress once he started playing against men. Defensively still sound but offense seemed to dry up. I've watched some tape on him and there's a hesitation there that bothers me and he sometimes ends up on the perimeter. He also does odd things with the puck which is why I question his processing. 

On 4/13/2021 at 3:08 PM, SDS said:

Interesting. 😉

I explained myself in what you are referring to. I felt the way I did for several reasons including citing examples of lesser players being traded for more. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Curt]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

For anyone curious the "Beniers" scouting report is not for Matthew Beniers but for Zemgus Girgensons. https://thehockeywriters.com/zemgus-girgensons-the-next-ones-2012-nhl-draft-prospect-profile-the-latvian-locomotive/

The Raty "article" comes from quotes pulled in 2020 or a full year ago from this article https://www.rawcharge.com/2020/4/24/21228954/21-days-of-2021-nhl-draft-prospects-1-aatu-raty

Always keep reading kids and make sure you get up to date info. For the record, the Beniers one I wouldn't have looked up except I have read all the publicly available profiles for Beniers and yours didn't ring a bell. Of course why would it when it was about Zemgus Girgensons from 2012. 

 

Here is the hockey writers actually report on Beniers for those interested: https://thehockeywriters.com/matthew-beniers-2021-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

That was super duper fun.

[Curt]

3 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

 

I already did and you decided to ignore it .

-He's played against men

-projected 1st overall last year

-nhl ready 

- best defensive forward in the draft 

- highest calling 

- nonstop  motor

-fast

 

He's everything your Beniers is but better will put up 80 points 

 

Beniers will max out at 50 

Raty seems hardly Liiga ready, never mind NHL ready.

Projected #1 overall last year is not really a good quality because those same people are projecting someone else to go #1 now.

I don’t know who should go #1 in this draft, but you have not presented a convincing argument for why it should be Raty.

[Crusader1969]

7 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Let's play a game first 

Beniers :  Scouting report

An extraordinary competitor with excellent hockey sense. Highly talented and powerful – intimidates with skill and strength. Strong skater with a smooth and long stride. Possesses great footwork and agility. Can escape pressure and tear his way thru traffic with his tight stop-and-starts and seamless ability to change directions while still in flight. Protects the puck very well with his body and reach.

Tough physical presence in that he cannot be removed from the puck and has the tenacity, desire and grit to come get when he wants it. Attacks the net often and owns a soft touch which allows him to work magic with the puck. Can absolutely rifle a booming shot to the net. Has an outstanding work ethic, both on and off the ice

 

Raty :  Scouting report

is a big, strong center who has pretty solid wheels. He gets around the ice with no issue and possesses the strength to play against men already. He has a big wrist shot and a willingness to get to the net. He may not be a true ‘franchise player’ but he has the chance to be a very solid number one center. He plays a mature game and consistently performs well against advanced competition. He isn’t a lock to go number one but he is certainly the early favorite. He could end up being the first Finn to go first overall in the NHL draft

A smart defensive player, Raty’s true bread and butter is how he attacks every play, never letting his guard down even in blowout contests. He can find his way out of most situations with the puck and his straight-line speed makes him tough to stop. 

Raty was Finland’s number one center and looked a stronger, faster version of himself from last season. He showed off his excellent hand-eye coordination, skating, and playmaking abilities and finished with four points in five games. Raty’s edges and puck control allow him to create space for himself and his teammates to create offense. 

 

Which one sounds better in your  Opinion?

When is the scouting report of Raty from? He didn’t make the world juniors this past year.  

[Crusader1969]

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

When is the scouting report of Raty from? He didn’t make the world juniors this past year.  

Sorry I guess I’m way behind in reading posts.  
 

even the biggest Raty supporter would have to admit he seems to have regressed this past season.   I’m sure he will be a fine player but I’d want to know why he has taken a step backwards this year.  

[LGR4GM]

Here is Raty's hockey writers profile from last month. 

https://thehockeywriters.com/aatu-raty-2021-draft-prospect-profile/

[LGR4GM]

 

 

 

[Drag0nDan]

17 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Projected first overall last year, nhl ready, and highest calling (?) don't really do much for me. 

I think the best defensive forward in the draft is Beniers who played against some men in the NCAA and that shouldn't be dismissed. Beniers also has a non-stop motor and I think his awareness on how to deploy that motor trumps Raty's. Both are fast but I think Beniers has better edges and can use his speed better. Raty has a better shot for sure. Raty for me has a major red flag, his toolbox doesn't do a great job of deploying his tools. That can be worked on though. 

I think Benier may end up with less points but that would only be if Raty managed to put things together and I don't see that happening. Raty clocks in at .1515 primary points a game for Liiga and that puts him below Rasmus Kupari as a production comparable. Beniers clocks in at .7916 which puts him above the 5 draft eligible forwards I have and puts him just below Dylan Halloway for DY+1 forwards (last 3 years) for the NCAA. 

My biggest concern with Raty is that he seemed to really regress once he started playing against men. Defensively still sound but offense seemed to dry up. I've watched some tape on him and there's a hesitation there that bothers me and he sometimes ends up on the perimeter. He also does odd things with the puck which is why I question his processing. 

I explained myself in what you are referring to. I felt the way I did for several reasons including citing examples of lesser players being traded for more. 

I think the challenge scouting hockey is that - they're all so young.  The desire for greatness, the want to be faster, stronger, how to overcome adversity - how do you scout that? Give me the player with that desire, not the kid whos the fastest or with the best shot.  

I love watching diggs offseason training regimen - its weird stuff - but its all designed to get faster out of his breaks, improve his balance, and improve his general ability to play the position even the slightest bit.  I want players who want to improve their weakest attributes, and generally want to be great.  

I don't expect this sabres draft pick to have an impact next season - but i want them to be a player who truly has that competitive spirit and desire to be great. 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Drag0nDan

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Drag0nDan said:

I think the challenge scouting hockey is that - they're all so young.  The desire for greatness, the want to be faster, stronger, how to overcome adversity - how do you scout that? Give me the player with that desire, not the kid whos the fastest or with the best shot.  

I love watching diggs offseason training regimen - its weird stuff - but its all designed to get faster out of his breaks, improve his balance, and improve his general ability to play the position.  I want players who want to improve their weakest attributes, and generally want to be great.  

I don't expect this sabres draft pick to have an impact next season - but i want them to be a player who truly has that competitive spirit and desire to be great. 

 

You scout that by seeing if they take shifts off or what happens when they don't have the puck. NHL teams have the advantage of doing interviews as well but for us we are looking for players that have a "nonstop motor" "works every shift" "backchecks well" because if you play the game well/hard you are likely to put the work in off ice to get better because there is something driving you every shift. For some prospects you can also learn about their workout stuff if you read enough, for example Rossi last year we knew that he worked out like a beast. 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

You scout that by seeing if they take shifts off or what happens when they don't have the puck. NHL teams have the advantage of doing interviews as well but for us we are looking for players that have a "nonstop motor" "works every shift" "backchecks well" because if you play the game well/hard you are likely to put the work in off ice to get better because there is something driving you every shift. For some prospects you can also learn about their workout stuff if you read enough, for example Rossi last year we knew that he worked out like a beast. 

I'll never understand the quinn pick tbh.  I didn't see rossi as like this dominant player, but dinging players for size isn't it either.  Hopefully they saw something special and thats why they went with Quinn.  But it sounds like I would prefer the Rossi type of player.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I'll never understand the quinn pick tbh.  I didn't see rossi as like this dominant player, but dinging players for size isn't it either.  Hopefully they saw something special and thats why they went with Quinn.  But it sounds like I would prefer the Rossi type of player.

Quinn was picked I think because they think his ceiling is higher than Rossi's. Idk if I agree with that. Quinn is the definition of a late bloomer in that he didn't start focusing purely on hockey until he was about 14 I think and then he really seemed to excel after time at each level he went to. My guess is that the Sabres view part of the reason for that growth as hard work and also feel there is untapped potential. 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Quinn was picked I think because they think his ceiling is higher than Rossi's. Idk if I agree with that. Quinn is the definition of a late bloomer in that he didn't start focusing purely on hockey until he was about 14 I think and then he really seemed to excel after time at each level he went to. My guess is that the Sabres view part of the reason for that growth as hard work and also feel there is untapped potential. 

what would buffalo have to add to quinn if you Liger were carolina and trading the Sabres Jarvis?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Thorny

[North Buffalo]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Quinn was picked I think because they think his ceiling is higher than Rossi's. Idk if I agree with that. Quinn is the definition of a late bloomer in that he didn't start focusing purely on hockey until he was about 14 I think and then he really seemed to excel after time at each level he went to. My guess is that the Sabres view part of the reason for that growth as hard work and also feel there is untapped potential. 

That has been the argument for Quinn, he takes a season to adjust but then blooms at all the levels he goes too.  We will see... big risk reward pick.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thorny said:

what would buffalo have to add to quinn if you Liger were carolina and trading the Sabres Jarvis?

A 1st round pick. There really is no reason for either team though to make that trade, both play the wing and both are goal scorers. 

Quote

“I never worked out or anything,” he told Scott Wheeler of the Athletic. “I never trained until my 15 or 16-year-old year.” (from: “Wheeler: Midseason ranking for the 2020 NHL Draft’s top 62 prospects” – The Athletic – Feb. 19, 2020)

Quote

Quinn always had the talent, but it was his slight build and lack of power that held him back. Once he began working with trainer Tony Greco, who also trains Philadelphia Flyers Captain Claude Giroux, Quinn was able to bring up his fitness to match his on-ice ability. It sounds cliché, but it’s that tireless work ethic on and off the ice that has allowed the young prospect to shoot up the draft rankings so quickly.

https://thehockeywriters.com/jack-quinn-2020-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A 1st round pick. There really is no reason for either team though to make that trade, both play the wing and both are goal scorers. 

https://thehockeywriters.com/jack-quinn-2020-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

Maybe I should have phrased the question differently, so to you the difference in your evaluation between Quinn and Jarvis is roughly that of a first?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thorny said:

Maybe I should have phrased the question differently, so to you the difference in your evaluation between Quinn and Jarvis is roughly that of a first?

Oh, no. I think you would have to overpay to get Jarvis. 

The difference in evaluation is that Jarvis is more of a sure bet then Quinn. Jarvis had 11 points in his 9 AHL games including 7 goals. Now part of that is because the AHL team for Carolina is better talent wise compared to Buffalo. Part of that is that Jarvis has been playing well at a higher level longer and has a more mature frame. 

As far as talent, I think Jarvis and Quinn bring different yet the same level of skill. Jarvis attacks differently then Quinn and I think skates better. Quinn has a better shot IMPO. If you want me to answer what is the value of Jarvis in comparison to Quinn I think a percentage works better. Jarvis is 100% and Quinn is 90% of that or there abouts because there is more risk. 

Quinn intrigues me a lot because the production in his draft year is really good but he is really old for his draft. He's basically played a 17 year old year as an 18 year old and that is troubling to me from a production standpoint. Really all depends on if the Sabres are correct and Quinn has that extra level to reach, I remain cautiously optimistic. 

[LGR4GM]

Jarvis 1.28 primary points (ranks 1st in the WHL over the last 3 years)

 - SEAL 1.74

Quinn 1.19 primary points (ranks 5th in the OHL over the last 3 years)

 - SEAL 1.57

Jarvis was on a worse team in a division where it is harder to score. Quinn was on a better team with a player who produced 1.57 primary points and yes they did not play together at 5v5 but they did on that pp. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh, no. I think you would have to overpay to get Jarvis. 

The difference in evaluation is that Jarvis is more of a sure bet then Quinn. Jarvis had 11 points in his 9 AHL games including 7 goals. Now part of that is because the AHL team for Carolina is better talent wise compared to Buffalo. Part of that is that Jarvis has been playing well at a higher level longer and has a more mature frame. 

As far as talent, I think Jarvis and Quinn bring different yet the same level of skill. Jarvis attacks differently then Quinn and I think skates better. Quinn has a better shot IMPO. If you want me to answer what is the value of Jarvis in comparison to Quinn I think a percentage works better. Jarvis is 100% and Quinn is 90% of that or there abouts because there is more risk. 

Quinn intrigues me a lot because the production in his draft year is really good but he is really old for his draft. He's basically played a 17 year old year as an 18 year old and that is troubling to me from a production standpoint. Really all depends on if the Sabres are correct and Quinn has that extra level to reach, I remain cautiously optimistic. 

Ya, the fact his draft year stands out so prominently amongst/because of everything else is the potential double edged sword and the most interesting thing. It could end up being foolish to have bet on what amounted to 1 season, (during which he was older, like you said). Or it could be evidence that he was about to explode and the Sabres saw it, which would be a massive credit to them, and got lucky he fell to them

[LGR4GM]

Personally I think the Sabres looked at the 52 goals and...

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Personally I think the Sabres looked at the 52 goals and...

The sure watched that Lamp light up and wanted that for Buffalo

[Sabre fan]

Whoever we draft this year I hope there is size involved...nastiness would be most welcome as well. I really like how the team is playing now but clearly we need to get bigger and nastier and that should be a priority no? Miss having Deslauriers who last I checked was leading league in fights. Much prefer him on the 4th then Reider or whoever...

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Sabre fan said:

Whoever we draft this year I hope there is size involved...nastiness would be most welcome as well. I really like how the team is playing now but clearly we need to get bigger and nastier and that should be a priority no? Miss having Deslauriers who last I checked was leading league in fights. Much prefer him on the 4th then Reider or whoever...

No it should not be a priority. This is bad drafting 101, Alex DeBrincat is the perfect example of drafting size over talent, he has 108 goals in 273 games. 

The difference between the tallest team and Buffalo is 3.1cm

The difference between the heaviest team and Buffalo is 6lbs. 

feistier yes, bigger no. You start drafting players based on size you will get Owen Power who is not nasty at all instead of Matt Beniers who has an edge. Or what I like to call the Logan Stanley rule. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

The Colorado Avalanche weigh less than Buffalo and are .5cm taller. Boston bruins are lighter. Rangers are lighter. Just btw. 

 

Edit: sorry since the deadline the Bruins are now 2lbs heavier than the Sabres. Same for Colorado. Rangers and Panthers are lighter though. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by LGR4GM

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Sabre fan said:

Whoever we draft this year I hope there is size involved...nastiness would be most welcome as well. I really like how the team is playing now but clearly we need to get bigger and nastier and that should be a priority no? Miss having Deslauriers who last I checked was leading league in fights. Much prefer him on the 4th then Reider or whoever...

Bring me all the buttholes!!  Big ones especially.