Sabres Valued 28th out of 31 NHL Teams per Forbes

[Brawndo]

They are one of 10 teams to post a double digit million dollar lost.  
 

 

 

 

 

[tom webster]

14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

They are one of 10 teams to post a double digit million dollar lost.  
 

 

 

 

 

If that valuation is right, the franchise is worth more then double what they paid for it.

All the Forbes numbers are guesses.

[Kruppstahl]

28 out of 31 seems high to me.

 

 

[IKnowPhysics]

9 minutes ago, tom webster said:

If that valuation is right, the franchise is worth more then double what they paid for it.

All the Forbes numbers are guesses.

They're also influenced by comparables, no matter how remote, but those do make real impacts.  The 2012 record-setting $2B purchase of the Doyers and their increase to their current valuation of $3.2B changed professional sports forever.   But it's one of the reasons the Bills, valued at $805M in 2012 sold for $1.4B in 2014.  It's related to the Leafs being valued at $521M in 2011 and selling a 75% stake to Rogers/Bell for $1.3B in 2012.

The Sabres' valuation jumped from $175M in 2012 to $250M in 2013.  It's risen to $400M in 2019.  The Bills are now valued at $2.05B.

Professional sports franchise ownership is an exclusive country club crossed with a cash cow crossed with an explosively lucrative investment.  Much of this is due to the recognition that live televised sports events are a last bastion for traditional media outlets fighting savage competition from streaming services and digital content, resulting in media outlets paying astronomical fees for exclusivity.  The media mega-conglomerations are fighting for their lives.  As long as the leagues can keep generating new content for broadcast, the cash cow will only temporarily be affected by lack of gate sales.

[LabattBlue]

I’m guessing Florida, Winnipeg and Arizona are below us?

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

I’m guessing Florida, Winnipeg and Arizona are below us?

I believe it was Florida Arizona and Columbus

 

[Pimlach]

As someone there in 1970 to see this franchise start out this is extremely sad.  
 

The pride was just so immense back then.  

[Mustache of God]

How many super yachts could they have bought with that lost 10 million?

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I’m guessing Florida, Winnipeg and Arizona are below us?

 

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I believe it was Florida Arizona and Columbus

 

This suprises me. 

[In The Buff]

54 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

How many super yachts could they have bought with that lost 10 million?

none. You obviously have never bought a superyacht 😛

I have no idea on how much the one cost that they were recently building, but the one they previously owned, called Top Five had a price of $18,000,000.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

 

This suprises me. 

Actually Jets were 27th so nm. 

[Thwomp!]

Drill another well.

The Forbes numbers may be guesses, but corporate accounting is a tax avoidance scheme, so I'm not trusting the Sabres' numbers either.  It's good to look poor this time of year.

[Mustache of God]

17 hours ago, In The Buff said:

none. You obviously have never bought a superyacht 😛

I have no idea on how much the one cost that they were recently building, but the one they previously owned, called Top Five had a price of $18,000,000.

so a little over .5 super yacht. got it, thank you.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Mustache of God said:

so a little over .5 super yacht. got it, thank you.

Could probably get a nice used one for that price, though it is quite gauche.

[Mustache of God]

20 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Could probably get a nice used one for that price, though it is quite gauche.

Used? What am I, some kind of peasant?

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

Used? What am I, some kind of peasant?

Well, clearly YOU wouldn't want to do so, but for the nouveau rich that simply don't understand how important procedures and customs are, it MIGHT be a possibility as a starter super yacht.

[Thorner]

13 hours ago, Thwomp! said:

Drill another well.

The Forbes numbers may be guesses, but corporate accounting is a tax avoidance scheme, so I'm not trusting the Sabres' numbers either.  It's good to look poor this time of year.

They've still doubled their investment re: Sabres since purchase

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

On 12/9/2020 at 2:18 PM, IKnowPhysics said:

They're also influenced by comparables, no matter how remote, but those do make real impacts.  The 2012 record-setting $2B purchase of the Doyers and their increase to their current valuation of $3.2B changed professional sports forever.   But it's one of the reasons the Bills, valued at $805M in 2012 sold for $1.4B in 2014.  It's related to the Leafs being valued at $521M in 2011 and selling a 75% stake to Rogers/Bell for $1.3B in 2012.

The Sabres' valuation jumped from $175M in 2012 to $250M in 2013.  It's risen to $400M in 2019.  The Bills are now valued at $2.05B.

Professional sports franchise ownership is an exclusive country club crossed with a cash cow crossed with an explosively lucrative investment.  Much of this is due to the recognition that live televised sports events are a last bastion for traditional media outlets fighting savage competition from streaming services and digital content, resulting in media outlets paying astronomical fees for exclusivity.  The media mega-conglomerations are fighting for their lives.  As long as the leagues can keep generating new content for broadcast, the cash cow will only temporarily be affected by lack of gate sales.

And this is exactly why the "money problems" the owners are talking about is a farce propagated for negotiation purposes.  These owners can easily procure investments or obtain a line of credit based on the expected value of the franchise when the loan term is over.  Having to tap into one of these cash inflow options potentially reduces their ROI, even if only temporarily.   But that could be the difference between getting that second super-yacht or building that 6th home so I totally understand their concerns...

[freester]

19 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

And this is exactly why the "money problems" the owners are talking about is a farce propagated for negotiation purposes.  These owners can easily procure investments or obtain a line of credit based on the expected value of the franchise when the loan term is over.  Having to tap into one of these cash inflow options potentially reduces their ROI, even if only temporarily.   But that could be the difference between getting that second super-yacht or building that 6th home so I totally understand their concerns...

Brian Burke on the Hockey Central podcast said the Forbes article way overvalued the franchise values.  He said the money problems are real and the current deal with the players is not sustainable.  The players will be owing the owners over a billion dollars by the end of next year.  Apparently the Pegulas stand to lose 60 million dollars this year and according to Paul Hamilton and they were some of the owners that were against playing this year on the current CBA

[Curt]

33 minutes ago, freester said:

Brian Burke on the Hockey Central podcast said the Forbes article way overvalued the franchise values.  He said the money problems are real and the current deal with the players is not sustainable.  The players will be owing the owners over a billion dollars by the end of next year.  Apparently the Pegulas stand to lose 60 million dollars this year and according to Paul Hamilton and they were some of the owners that were against playing this year on the current CBA

They were so worried about all the money they were going to lose that they spent as much as they possibly could on player salaries.  Literally, they could not have spent more.  Internal cap was a bunch of bs.

I know this isn’t the whole story and I don’t doubt that they will take a lose on a season with no attendance, but still, come on.

N. American major 4 sports franchises have a ridiculously high return on investment.  I just don’t want to hear about the owner’s complaints.

[freester]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

They were so worried about all the money they were going to lose that they spent as much as they possibly could on player salaries.  Literally, they could not have spent more.  Internal cap was a bunch of bs.

I know this isn’t the whole story and I don’t doubt that they will take a lose on a season with no attendance, but still, come on.

N. American major 4 sports franchises have a ridiculously high return on investment.  I just don’t want to hear about the owner’s complaints.

Whether you want to hear owners complains is irrelevant.  The system is not currently viable based on a 50/50 partnership with the players.  Labor strife will happen next year unless some massive TV deal is done to account for the owners huge losses.  With playoff TV ratings among the lowest ever I'm not sure a super lucrative TV deal is on the table.

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, freester said:

Whether you want to hear owners complains is irrelevant.  The system is not currently viable based on a 50/50 partnership with the players.  Labor strife will happen next year unless some massive TV deal is done to account for the owners huge losses.  With playoff TV ratings among the lowest ever I'm not sure a super lucrative TV deal is on the table.

Owners are constantly complaining about losing money, yet the value of their companies consistently skyrocket.  How is that a failing, unsustainable system???

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

13 minutes ago, freester said:

Whether you want to hear owners complains is irrelevant.  The system is not currently viable based on a 50/50 partnership with the players.  Labor strife will happen next year unless some massive TV deal is done to account for the owners huge losses.  With playoff TV ratings among the lowest ever I'm not sure a super lucrative TV deal is on the table.

Short-term loses will not impacted the expected value of the franchise unless you are looking to sell one in the next year or 2.  The NHL is the least developed out of the 4 major sports so the expected value 5+ years out will more than cover any short-term loses.  The expected ROR (rate-of-return) is the only thing at risk here for 80%+ of the owners and the only organizations at risk of insolvency are poorly run ones that are already over-extended on their books through their own mis-management.  No one should feel bad for the stakeholders in these organizations, or expect the players to bail them out.  

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[LGR4GM]

And the Sabres downsized the staff. Guessing they need or want to close that 10mil gap... which they could also do if they ever made the ***** playoffs.

[freester]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

And the Sabres downsized the staff. Guessing they need or want to close that 10mil gap... which they could also do if they ever made the ***** playoffs.

Making the playoffs with no fans in the stands is not going to close the gap.