Sabres Sign 2020 First Round Pick Jack Quinn to ELC

[dudacek]

@Thorny it feels like I'm pissing you off and if that's the case I'm sorry.

I'm looking at Cozens and Quinn's peak levels like two lines on a graph headed toward draft day.

Cozens starts way above Quinn and continues ascending. Quinn ascends at much more dramatic pace. When I say they are on the same tier I mean at the time they hit draft day, Quinn had caught up, the peak effectiveness of his play at the point in time was roughly the same. I think the numbers and draft position back that up.

I agree Cozens sustained a high level of play for longer period of time. I don't think that puts him on another tier, but I can see how someone else could. I also can see how someone might argue the sharper curve indicates Quinn has more room for growth and is therefore the one on a higher tier. I don't think that either.

I am arguing that Quinn and Cozens were playing at similar levels at the end of their draft years.

Edited November 20, 2020 by dudacek

[Curt]

2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

But Hughes was dominant in the playoffs. That was really impressive.  Let's hope.

Not disputing.  Hughes was better last season.  Next season, we’ll see.

Hope.

[bunomatic]

57 minutes ago, Curt said:

Not disputing.  Hughes was better last season.  Next season, we’ll see.

Hope.

Dahlin was 19 last season no ? Hughes was 21 or is now. I can’t wait to see these two at 23-24. I’m pretty sure Dahlin will be ok when his game is compared to Hughes at that point. He may have his breakout year this season.

[Cal Naughton Jr]

This is a pretty good read on the kid. 
 

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/sabres-jack-quinn-is-ready-to-prove-doubters-wrong?fbclid=IwAR3j4EGV-fuLmWn2IQtn9IoLrti5a9FIMJiNR8eO4e_zmSu_C-9hrB-aqbc

[Curt]

5 hours ago, bunomatic said:

Dahlin was 19 last season no ? Hughes was 21 or is now. I can’t wait to see these two at 23-24. I’m pretty sure Dahlin will be ok when his game is compared to Hughes at that point. He may have his breakout year this season.

Hughes was 20, Dahlin was 19.  They are 21 and 20 now.  Only about 6 months between them.

Im pretty confident that Dahlin will be much more than ok.

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

@Thorny it feels like I'm pissing you off and if that's the case I'm sorry.

I'm looking at Cozens and Quinn's peak levels like two lines on a graph headed toward draft day.

Cozens starts way above Quinn and continues ascending. Quinn ascends at much more dramatic pace. When I say they are on the same tier I mean at the time they hit draft day, Quinn had caught up, the peak effectiveness of his play at the point in time was roughly the same. I think the numbers and draft position back that up.

I agree Cozens sustained a high level of play for longer period of time. I don't think that puts him on another tier, but I can see how someone else could. I also can see how someone might argue the sharper curve indicates Quinn has more room for growth and is therefore the one on a higher tier. I don't think that either.

I am arguing that Quinn and Cozens were playing at similar levels at the end of their draft years.

That is how I look at it. If Quinn is suddenly awful in the OHL this year, that would be a major flag but we just don't have any new data yet so right now they are on the same talent level tier. 

8 hours ago, Curt said:

Not disputing.  Hughes was better last season.  Next season, we’ll see.

Hope.

Hughes also played on a far better team. Dahlin needs to bring his game up another level for sure, I think he will. 

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Hughes was 20, Dahlin was 19.  They are 21 and 20 now.  Only about 6 months between them.

Im pretty confident that Dahlin will be much more than ok.

Dahlin will be able to put up some big numbers that will come close to Hughes. Hughes may outscore him but he will still be small and weaker.

I see Hughes as a modern Brian Leetch, big numbers but a defensive liability.

I think Dahlin can be a cross between Hedman and Lidstrom.

[LGR4GM]

Speaking of Marco Rossi

 

[dudacek]

Best read I've seen yet on Quinn. Sounds like he's defined by his hunger.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/sabres-prospect-jack-quinns-journey-from-first-cut-to-first-round/article_67a5b136-29c2-11eb-979e-5f03fb6e4fcc.html

“I’m a baseball fan. In baseball, you say how many ways can a guy beat you,” Tourigny said. “That’s Jack Quinn in hockey. You don’t have to tell me the score. You don’t have to tell me about the time on the clock. You don’t have to tell me who is on the ice for the other side. I know I can put Jack Quinn on the ice and I know he’ll be good. … Whatever you want, he can do it. He has it all.”

[chloewoj]

On 11/16/2020 at 7:55 PM, LGR4GM said:

Oh idk about a lot better. Hmm this is hard because I have more info on Cozens than Quinn but they exist on the same level or tier talent wise. I think right now Cozens is better but Quinn is an anomaly in so many ways. 

Id be curious to hear @chloewoj take

cozens will be better...just an all round better player in my opinion. goal scoring ability goes to quinn but every other aspect goes to cozens. i could be saying this just because i have watched so much film on cozens and know his game so much better than i know quinn's. cozens will be better but not by a super wide margin though. 

[klos1963]

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That is how I look at it. If Quinn is suddenly awful in the OHL this year, that would be a major flag but we just don't have any new data yet so right now they are on the same talent level tier. 

Hughes also played on a far better team. Dahlin needs to bring his game up another level for sure, I think he will. 

One could say Hughes was a big reason why Vancouver was a far better team.  He was an impact player, I don't think Dahlin was, he got points, yes, Hughes made plays.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

One could say Hughes was a big reason why Vancouver was a far better team.  He was an impact player, I don't think Dahlin was, he got points, yes, Hughes made plays.

You don't think Dahlin was an impact player?

Well everyone is entitled to their own opinions. 

[LabattBlue]

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

Best read I've seen yet on Quinn. Sounds like he's defined by his hunger.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/sabres-prospect-jack-quinns-journey-from-first-cut-to-first-round/article_67a5b136-29c2-11eb-979e-5f03fb6e4fcc.html

“I’m a baseball fan. In baseball, you say how many ways can a guy beat you,” Tourigny said. “That’s Jack Quinn in hockey. You don’t have to tell me the score. You don’t have to tell me about the time on the clock. You don’t have to tell me who is on the ice for the other side. I know I can put Jack Quinn on the ice and I know he’ll be good. … Whatever you want, he can do it. He has it all.”

Really good article...for those who have access! 👍

[French Collection]

14 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Really good article...for those who have access! 👍

Very positive article.

I find it interesting that his personal trainer thinks he can make the jump this year. The guy works with Claude Giroux, so he’s no chump.

I hope he makes Team Canada so we can get some great views of Cozens and Quinn.

[klos1963]

15 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You don't think Dahlin was an impact player?

Well everyone is entitled to their own opinions. 

I really don't.  Certainly not like a number 1 overall 'generational talent'.

[Zamboni]

13 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I really don't.  Certainly not like a number 1 overall 'generational talent'.

Good thing he’s soooooo young and develop more. Who in their right mind thinks that as a teenager he would automatically BE a generational talent? Almost no one. Almost....

[LabattBlue]

10 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Good thing he’s soooooo young and develop more. Who in their right mind thinks that as a teenager he would automatically BE a generational talent? Almost no one. Almost....

Not to be a smartass, but at what age will he become a generational talent?

Dahlin was projected to be the best defenseman coming out of the draft since Potvin....you don’t see that quote thrown around in recent months. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by LabattBlue

[klos1963]

16 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Good thing he’s soooooo young and develop more. Who in their right mind thinks that as a teenager he would automatically BE a generational talent? Almost no one. Almost....

He's got a long way to go, he's below average defensively and above average, but not elite offensively. If and when he gets there, I'll be happy to say so, but fans cannonize him at the same time accepting the fact that he's not there yet.

He'll be in his 3rd season, he was expected to be further along than most teenagers because he played in a higher league in Sweden. He needs to be better than good. In his defense, I do believe the team has held him back and not given him more freedom to make plays, maybe that changes this year with more talent up front and another season with Krueger.

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Not to be a smartass, but at what age will he become a generational talent?

Dahlin was projected to be the best defenseman coming out of the draft since Potvin....you don’t see that quote thrown around in recent months. 

Karlsson emerged four years after he was drafted, and even then they questioned his two-way game.

For Victor Hedman it was five years.

Nick Lidstrom was 22 before he even played in the NHL.

Brent Burns became Brent Burns when he was 30.

Dahlin is miles ahead of these guys at 20.

[klos1963]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Karlsson emerged four years after he was drafted, and even then they questioned his two-way game.

For Victor Hedman it was five years.

Nick Lidstrom was 22 before he even played in the NHL.

Brent Burns became Brent Burns when he was 30.

Dahlin is miles ahead of these guys at 20.

So if Dahlin is miles ahead of say, Karlsson, he should be a star this coming season, right? and actually, Karlsson had 78 points in his third season.

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

He's got a long way to go, he's below average defensively and above average, but not elite offensively. If and when he gets there, I'll be happy to say so, but fans cannonize him at the same time accepting the fact that he's not there yet.

He'll be in his 3rd season, he was expected to be further along than most teenagers because he played in a higher league in Sweden. He needs to be better than good. In his defense, I do believe the team has held him back and not given him more freedom to make plays, maybe that changes this year with more talent up front and another season with Krueger.

How do you define elite and above average? He was 15th in points per games played last year for defencemen. There are 186 defence jobs in the NHL.

[dudacek]

Just now, klos1963 said:

So if Dahlin is miles ahead of say, Karlsson, he should be a star this coming season, right? and actually, Karlsson had 78 points in his third season.

He spent a year in Sweden before coming over.

At Rasmus Dahlin's age, Karlsson had put up 26 NHL points.

[klos1963]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

How do you define elite and above average? He was 15th in points per games played last year for defencemen. There are 186 defence jobs in the NHL.

not an exact science, but I would say , elite would be top 3 player or thereabouts, it's like pornography, i don't know how to define it, but i'll know it when i see it.

[dudacek]

Just now, klos1963 said:

not an exact science, but I would say , elite would be top 3 player or thereabouts, it's like pornography, i don't know how to define it, but i'll know it when i see it.

There's gotta be a category (or a few) between elite and above average then.

[klos1963]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

He spent a year in Sweden before coming over.

At Rasmus Dahlin's age, Karlsson had put up 26 NHL points.

We can play these games all day long - Dahlin was #1 overall 'generational talent', Karlsson was 15th overall.